[Nervous Mum]

Just wanted to introduce myself, I am a Mum and my eldest is just getting to the point of having to choose a degree etc.

A bit about myself, I left school at 16 and did not do particularly well, actually failed spectacularly, I do not want the same for my children.

My eldest is in year 12 and it has just come home with a booklet from his school about choosing a Degree, University etc. Have to say it almost feels a bit late, having had a scoot around the internet it appears that some Universities are holding their open days over the next few months.

My son is studying (currently) Physics, Biology, Math and Further Math. I am not sure which if any he will drop at the end of year 12, but it may possibly be Physics. Initially he had intended to take Chemistry but opted for Biology as he thought the other subjects may be a bit heavy going. As it is, he has found that he is really enjoying Biology so it may be Physics that goes.

So here we are two parents trying to advise him, neither of which have been through this process and have no idea. We know he is intending to take a Maths degree but which one, there seem so many to choose from. Help!

He achieved A* at GCSE in Math, in total he got 2 x A* 3 x A, 1 x B, 1 x C, 1 x D and 1 x U (the latter were French and Photography.)

So that is us, grateful for any help and advice you can offer.

[tory88]

With those subjects, it would be natural to drop biology and continue into physics, maths or engineering. It will be hard to get into things biological without chemistry in most cases unfortunately. Ask him what subject he sees himself studying at university, and people will be able to help more. Just as an aside, some universities pay a lot of attention to good GCSE grades, so be aware there as some want a lot of A*s etc.

[Apeiron]

(Original post by Nervous Mum)
Just wanted to introduce myself, I am a Mum and my eldest is just getting to the point of having to choose a degree etc.

A bit about myself, I left school at 16 and did not do particularly well, actually failed spectacularly, I do not want the same for my children.

My eldest is in year 12 and it has just come home with a booklet from his school about choosing a Degree, University etc. Have to say it almost feels a bit late, having had a scoot around the internet it appears that some Universities are holding their open days over the next few months.

My son is studying (currently) Physics, Biology, Math and Further Math. I am not sure which if any he will drop at the end of year 12, but it may possibly be Physics. Initially he had intended to take Chemistry but opted for Biology as he thought the other subjects may be a bit heavy going. As it is, he has found that he is really enjoying Biology so it may be Physics that goes.

So here we are two parents trying to advise him, neither of which have been through this process and have no idea. We know he is intending to take a Maths degree but which one, there seem so many to choose from. Help!

He achieved A* at GCSE in Math, in total he got 2 x A* 3 x A, 1 x B, 1 x C, 1 x D and 1 x U (the latter were French and Photography.)

So that is us, grateful for any help and advice you can offer.

If he intends to study mathematics at university, then he should not drop Physics. Maths, Further Maths and Physics are a natural combination. By all means carry on with Biology, that will do no harm, providing he has the stamina for doing four exams at A2 -- it's not that uncommon, especially with M+FM.

He will need to assess how good he is at maths in order to decide his university choices. He'll be in a better position to know this after he has taken his AS exams. For the most demanding courses, such as those at Oxbridge, Warwick and a few other places, an A* at A2 is really a requirement plus a good grade in an independent test like MAT or STEP.

[NuclearFusion]

As the other posted have suggested, I would advise him to drop Biology instead of Physics if he is planning on taking a Maths degree; Maths, Further Maths and Physics is a perfect combination for a Maths degree. If he is going to be doing any Mechanics modules for Maths or Further Maths A2, then Physics will help- I personally found it helped me with M1 and M2.

Physics would also give access to a wider range of mathematically related degrees, such as Physics, Engineering etc. If he is really keen on Maths, he could consider taking extra Maths modules to gain a further AS in Additional Further Maths, or even another full A-level if he chooses to do 6 extra modules (though I wouldn't recommend so many). I myself am doing Maths, Further Maths and Physics A2, and I will be doing a Physics degree this year at Bristol.

[non]

it doesn't matter if he drops physics if he prefers biology.

[RichE]

Different universities have different attitudes to the usefulness of Physics A-level. There isn't much maths in the Physics A-level; doing some mechanics modules would be a reasonable substitute.

I'd say if he prefers Biology to Physics then he should stick with the Biology.

[ben-smith]

(Original post by RichE)
Different universities have different attitudes to the usefulness of Physics A-level. There isn't much maths in the Physics A-level; doing some mechanics modules would be a reasonable substitute.

I'd say if he prefers Biology to Physics then he should stick with the Biology.

It's certainly true that, officially, the maths in physics alevel is, at best, trivial but my physics teacher makes an effort to prove lots of the results they expect you to just blindly believe and show us some of the implications i.e. from things like differential equations in SHM and radioactive decay to relativistic doppler effect and lorentz force stuff.
I guess my point is that stuff like calculus is not needed but can certainly give you an understanding of what you are doing and where these results come from.

[DFranklin]

(Original post by ben-smith)
It's certainly true that, officially, the maths in physics alevel is, at best, trivial but my physics teacher makes an effort to prove lots of the results they expect you to just blindly believe and show us some of the implications i.e. from things like differential equations in SHM and radioactive decay to relativistic doppler effect and lorentz force stuff.
I guess my point is that stuff like calculus is not needed but can certainly give you an understanding of what you are doing and where these results come from.

But as you describe it, this is more "maths is useful for physics" than "physics is useful for maths". I'm not sure I can think of anything I did at physics A-level that ended up helping me during my degree.

[Alexandra's Box]

(Original post by Nervous Mum)
.

That post was really quite sweet
Anyway I can't help regarding the Maths degree problem, but the advice you already have here is great!
Well, welcome to TSR!

[ben-smith]

(Original post by DFranklin)
But as you describe it, this is more "maths is useful for physics" than "physics is useful for maths". I'm not sure I can think of anything I did at physics A-level that ended up helping me during my degree.

I don't disagree but one doesn't necessarily choose Alevels on the basis of them helping you out later. I guess what I mean is that Physics gives you the opportunity to see some really cool maths applied to some awesome physics and doing Physics Alevel at least gives you a starting point.

[Noble.]

(Original post by ben-smith)
I don't disagree but one doesn't necessarily choose Alevels on the basis of them helping you out later. I guess what I mean is that Physics gives you the opportunity to see some really cool maths applied to some awesome physics and doing Physics Alevel at least gives you a starting point.

I don't know what board you did for physics, but I did OCR Physics (A I think) and the "cool maths" was rearranging a fraction. For someone interested in maths, physics doesn't really offer anything over biology, because if you wanted to know the real mathematics behind it, you'd have to do your own research.

[DFranklin]

(Original post by ben-smith)
I don't disagree but one doesn't necessarily choose Alevels on the basis of them helping you out later. I guess what I mean is that Physics gives you the opportunity to see some really cool maths applied to some awesome physics and doing Physics Alevel at least gives you a starting point.

When I did A-level Physics I remember 3 places where you could use "cool maths":

(1) Finding the behaviour under gravity of a train in a frictional tunnel connecting London to LA. (SHM and a bit of resolving)
(2) The behaviour of an LRC circuit. (damped 2nd order ODE)
(3) Very simple versions of Schrodinger equation.

In fact (3) wasn't really even hinted at enough to be able to do it - I only realised what was going on when I did QM in my 2nd year at uni.

And this was when A-level maths was basically required to do Physics A-level.

On the other hand, a good M/FM background gave you a huge advantage in doing/understanding the Physics A-level. I got a distinction in the Physics S-level (think Physics AEA) with very little prep as a result.

[Arekkusu]

(Original post by Nervous Mum)
Just wanted to introduce myself, I am a Mum and my eldest is just getting to the point of having to choose a degree etc.

A bit about myself, I left school at 16 and did not do particularly well, actually failed spectacularly, I do not want the same for my children.

My eldest is in year 12 and it has just come home with a booklet from his school about choosing a Degree, University etc. Have to say it almost feels a bit late, having had a scoot around the internet it appears that some Universities are holding their open days over the next few months.

My son is studying (currently) Physics, Biology, Math and Further Math. I am not sure which if any he will drop at the end of year 12, but it may possibly be Physics. Initially he had intended to take Chemistry but opted for Biology as he thought the other subjects may be a bit heavy going. As it is, he has found that he is really enjoying Biology so it may be Physics that goes.

So here we are two parents trying to advise him, neither of which have been through this process and have no idea. We know he is intending to take a Maths degree but which one, there seem so many to choose from. Help!

He achieved A* at GCSE in Math, in total he got 2 x A* 3 x A, 1 x B, 1 x C, 1 x D and 1 x U (the latter were French and Photography.)

So that is us, grateful for any help and advice you can offer.

His GCSE grades don't matter for entry to university (except maybe Oxbridge where they need to differentiate). The offer will be made based on his AS-level and predicted A-level grades and will be contingent on his achieving those grades in the final exams.

You can apply to five universities. It's advisable to apply to a good range in entry requirements. If he falls short or exceeds expectations there is Adjustment and Clearing where he can change up or down his offer. However personally if I failed to make the grade I would defer for a year and retake my exams.

Don't fret about the open days, there is usually another round of them in August/September.

Depending on your financial situation your son may want to take a gap year to earn some money. This is no detriment to your application; he can even apply during the year out, still through the school.

You may want to encourage your son to do some extra-curriculars if he doesn't already: this can be anything from being a prefect to knowing an instrument or getting a weekend job. This kind of thing differentiates applicants with the same grades.

Your son seems to have a wide variation on his grades indicating he prefers some subjects over others: encourage him to pursue the ones he enjoys. Any numerate degree or STEM (science, technology, engineering and maths) degree is basically a free pass to the middle classes even in our troubled age.

Also good banter on the thread title!

[ben-smith]

(Original post by DFranklin)
(3) Very simple versions of Schrodinger equation.

ooooh, I'm intrigued... I assume it came up when studying waves?


I'm just trying to put my own experience out there. I definitely feel that studying physics has really helped me as a mathematician in the sense that talking to my physics teacher about it has led me to Noether's theorem and similar things. I also think that physics also helped me get an offer from Cam because in my interview I was able to talk at length about how the maths we were doing related to Quantum mechanics.

[Nervous Mum]

Hello all,

What a lovely surprise to see so many responses, thank you all.

So my advice to him so far has been

a) Choose a degree!
b) Choose a University – I have told him that once we know exactly which Maths degree he wants to study for we can then fine tune the Universities. My thoughts are to pick one from the top tier (more about this later) and then the rest from the next tier and so on.


I have read that the top Maths Universities are Cambridge, Oxford, Warwick and Imperial College – top tier. My son has said that he believes he will get an A* at A’ Level for Math and Further Math and an A (possibly A*) for Physics and Biology if he works hard! He then qualified that by saying but what do I know!

I think the reason he is enjoying Biology is because he is not finding it particularly hard and it may be light relief to him compared to Physics and Math. But don’t quote me, I struggle to get my commas in the right places, so it would be Rocket Science to me.

My advice to him was depending on his results to pick one from the top tier, I was thinking Warwick here because I had heard that pupils studying at Cambridge or Oxford are not allowed to supplement their income by working, and whilst we will help with his living costs he will need to work to supplement his social life etc.

The other option we are considering is that he tries to join a School Leavers programme with one of the big accountancy firms. This of course is only if he decides to follow Accountancy as a career, when he was choosing his A’ Levels every time he was asked what he wanted to do the response to Accountancy was ‘That’s a bit boring’.

If Accountancy is what he wants to do then I think if he could get in with one of the big four that would be great because the degree would be paid for by the firm. However, we have also said that if he is not sure then he should study at University as a Maths degree will open many doors and he will have three or four years to decide which door to choose.

The other point mentioned is outside interests work etc, he has been practicing TaeKwondo since the age of 11 and helps teach the younger children. He has a paper round which we have encouraged him to keep rather than get a weekend job, as it’s less invasive on his study/social time than a weekend job. He does not spend money easily (hmm maybe accountancy is a good career option) so saves most of his earnings. Up to his GCSE he was swimming competitively and trained 5 times a week and just recently he gave up Air Cadets to concentrate on his A’ Level studies.

Will keep you posted, we have Parents Evening tomorrow and I have pulled off the timeline from the school website. Happy days!

[Nervous Mum]

Oops I will also pass on your comments about not giving up Physics!

[Tortious]

(Original post by Nervous Mum)
My advice to him was depending on his results to pick one from the top tier, I was thinking Warwick here because I had heard that pupils studying at Cambridge or Oxford are not allowed to supplement their income by working, and whilst we will help with his living costs he will need to work to supplement his social life etc.

Just to mention a few things here - whilst it's true that we're not allowed to have jobs in term time, Oxbridge isn't necessarily as expensive as you might imagine. Speaking from the perspective of a Cambridge student (since I don't know much about "The Other Place"!), we only pay rent for the weeks we're here during term time, which is roughly 30 weeks of the year. Further, the University has several financial support schemes, most notably the Cambridge Bursary Scheme, which might be of interest to you.

I'm by no means an expert on this, but if you've got any more questions, feel free to send me a private message.

[Apeiron]

(Original post by Nervous Mum)
Oops I will also pass on your comments about not giving up Physics!

I will qualify what I previously said by saying that if he does not enjoy Physics to the extent it cause him to get a B or below, it might be better to give it up. Ultimately, it's the grades that count.

It is true that having a job during term time at Oxbridge is strongly discouraged because the terms are shorter and more intensive than elsewhere. Don't think there would be problem in the summer vacation, though. Bear in mind also that living costs are cheaper at Oxbridge than elsewhere for the same reason.

[kratos90]

Why do you want me to stand by my bed???

[DFranklin]

(Original post by ben-smith)
ooooh, I'm intrigued... I assume it came up when studying waves?

To be honest, I don't 100% remember. It was to do with wave functions, and I know there were these graphs plotted on a BBC micro where the wave function either converged or diverged. I don't think we actually did any of it though, we just had the graphs.

How any of this was supposed to mean anything to people doing A-level Physics I'm not sure!

I'm just trying to put my own experience out there. I definitely feel that studying physics has really helped me as a mathematician in the sense that talking to my physics teacher about it has led me to Noether's theorem and similar things. I also think that physics also helped me get an offer from Cam because in my interview I was able to talk at length about how the maths we were doing related to Quantum mechanics.

Fair enough - I, equally, am just putting my own experience out there.