[SilverbySkyline]

(Original post by Nervous Mum)
Just wanted to introduce myself, I am a Mum and my eldest is just getting to the point of having to choose a degree etc.

A bit about myself, I left school at 16 and did not do particularly well, actually failed spectacularly, I do not want the same for my children.

My eldest is in year 12 and it has just come home with a booklet from his school about choosing a Degree, University etc. Have to say it almost feels a bit late, having had a scoot around the internet it appears that some Universities are holding their open days over the next few months.

My son is studying (currently) Physics, Biology, Math and Further Math. I am not sure which if any he will drop at the end of year 12, but it may possibly be Physics. Initially he had intended to take Chemistry but opted for Biology as he thought the other subjects may be a bit heavy going. As it is, he has found that he is really enjoying Biology so it may be Physics that goes.

So here we are two parents trying to advise him, neither of which have been through this process and have no idea. We know he is intending to take a Maths degree but which one, there seem so many to choose from. Help!

He achieved A* at GCSE in Math, in total he got 2 x A* 3 x A, 1 x B, 1 x C, 1 x D and 1 x U (the latter were French and Photography.)

So that is us, grateful for any help and advice you can offer.

Just finished a masters degree in Civil & Structural engineering and I have to say that myself and all my friends from my uni class walked straight into jobs ranging from £30k-£45k. Based upon the subjects your son is studying he is pretty well suited to an engineering degree, in my opinion that would be the best option. So saying that, if you're saying he doesn't massively like physics then perhaps not!

From his point of view Engineering could be pretty good. It's generally a male dominated course so the opportunities for getting to know girls on your course are fairly limited, but this does mean there are LOTS of lads to make mates with - 2 of the guys on my course I now live with, another 1 is my best friends and like another 7 are the group of people I hang out with almost exclusively!

I guess a final point is that the work is HARD, I did maths and physics in my penultimate year at academy, so first year uni was a crazy jump. Once I got my head around the maths the maths modules were by far the easiest subjects without a doubt! The work gets almost exponentially harder as things you learn towards the end of one year that you are graded on in exams are things you should just know in all proceeding years!

Anyway, now I'm just rambling. If you have any questions you think I might be able to answer then feel free to ask!

[TheCurlyHairedDude]

12 a bit late to discuss uni? Most people still don't even have a clue at 17!!!

In fact with the state of graduate unemployment atm there's thousands of kids who enroll on course paying huge fees and still don't know if that's what they want.

And you didn't fail because you left school at 16, you failed because of you. Loads of people are successful after leaving school at 16.....

Just saying.

[Intriguing Alias]

(Original post by TheCurlyHairedDude)
12 a bit late to discuss uni? Most people still don't even have a clue at 17!!!

And you didn't fail because you left school at 16, you failed because of you. Loads of people are successful after leaving school at 16.....

Just saying.

I'm assuming you mean a bit early. And he's in YEAR 12.


Also, shut up.

[TheCurlyHairedDude]

(Original post by hassi94)
I'm assuming you mean a bit early. And he's in YEAR 12.


Also, shut up.

Scrap what I just said...


"12 a bit late discuss uni?" - What does that mean to you? What crucial role is the question mark playing in regards to the context of the statement, and I know it's year 12, I can read.

[Intriguing Alias]

(Original post by TheCurlyHairedDude)
No I mean late, and yes I know YEAR 12, that's what it says....



What's your point?

Oh I see what you're saying now (though it would be more clear if you didn't use numbers on their own in the same sentence to mean 2 different things. i.e. you wrote 12 meaning year 12 then 17 meaning 17 years old in the same sentence). Well parents usually like to be a bit more prepared for things like this

And this thread has nothing to do with the mothers successes or lack thereof - you took the one off topic part of the OP just to belittle her, what's the point?

[AnnB]

(Original post by moritzplatz)
i think when you are 18-19 you should be able to do this things by yourself.
otherwise i suspect he will have much chances with oxbridge or other top universities...

I agree that by 18-19 they should be able to do more for themselves but we are talking about 16 and 17 year olds who may need some help and advice at this stage from their parents. Even adults who are independent sometimes want the advice and guidance of their parents!

[TheCurlyHairedDude]

(Original post by hassi94)
Oh I see what you're saying now (though it would be more clear if you didn't use numbers on their own in the same sentence to mean 2 different things. i.e. you wrote 12 meaning year 12 then 17 meaning 17 years old in the same sentence). Well parents usually like to be a bit more prepared for things like this

And this thread has nothing to do with the mothers successes or lack thereof - you took the one off topic part of the OP just to belittle her, what's the point?

Fair enough, mutual fault.

I'm not belittling the OP, if you write something in a thread, expect people to respond to it...

In fact the mum is doing a great thing, I know for a fact that if I didn't have my personality I wouldn't be were I am now, my mum hardly motivated me or guided me. And she definitely didn't seek advice regarding my future, which is something this parent is doing which is great.

[catoswyn]

(Original post by moritzplatz)
i think parents shouldn't worry about what their sons want to study, it is their life.

my mother found out that i applied to oxford when i asked her the money for the plane to get there.

Your posts imply you consider independence a great virtue... Fair enough but the fact you excluded your mother from any involvement but then had to ask her for the money to fly to the interview does rather undermine your point!

In truth, in life, co-operative working with others, whether these are your parents or not, is just as important as independence. No one is suggesting that the parents make the decision for him. This mother merely wants to be able to help if necessary and to be there for her son.

As for whether or not this would mean he was less suited for Oxford. The point is erroneous. In fact research shows that students whose parents are able to offer support because they themselves have attended university are more likely to be offerred a place than otherwise.

Anyway, congratulations on your place at Oxford!

[catoswyn]

(Original post by hassi94)
Careful with this advice. If he's applying for Maths, Physics or Engineering it very much is an A-level in itself. Not only do they respect it but for these degrees it's usually the most desired 'optional' A-Level (in that most universities only actually REQUIRE maths).

I personally applied for Maths at Cambridge, UCL, Warwick, LSE and Bath. All of whom I emailed beforehand asking if having 3 a-levels including Further Maths would be a disadvantage. They all said I would be fine - and that the only 2 A-levels they care about are Maths and Further Maths - and that I could do anything else as my third and not need a fourth. I ended up being fine with all of them.

Thanks for clarifying this. It is a confusing area! I wonder if the same is true if you don't apply for a maths/physics/engineering degree. Have to have a bit of a research on this I suppose.

[Intriguing Alias]

(Original post by catoswyn)
Thanks for clarifying this. It is a confusing area! I wonder if the same is true if you don't apply for a maths/physics/engineering degree. Have to have a bit of a research on this I suppose.

There are some degrees at some universities that will only accept Further Maths as a fourth. Examples I can think of are most medical schools and economics @ Warwick/LSE.

[KitKatClub]

Hello, I am also a Mum. Welcome!! Someone may have already said this but I suggest you go onto the UCAS website and have a browse at courses and which Unis do them. Then you can go onto individual Uni websites and look at details of the courses and crucially which A level subject combinations and grades they require - they do differ so just be aware of that. Also get onto your son's school/ college and find out if you can meet with the Head of 6th form for some advice. Ask your fellow Mums too... they will be a fount of knowledge!! It's fine to go to Uni open days this summer - this is when most people go so you're not too late. Also you can try other advice places like 'Connexions' and so on - there is advice and info out there... don't worry too much. Good luck with it all

[Ree69]

I just thought I'd emphasise the somewhat common opinion to drop Physics. Last year I wanted to drop Physics (I wanted to just do Maths, FM, and Econ for A-Level) but I was effectively forced to continue it to A2 from my school because of some inaccurate advice from the department and my careers teacher:

"Your A-Level choices don't have sufficient breadth and diversity - it would be damaging to your UCAS application if you didn't do Maths, Further Maths and two more subjects to A2".

In my school it was effectively frowned upon to not do four A-Levels (where Maths and Further Maths were amongst them).

Long story short, I got A*A*BB - missed both university offers and took an expected gap year, resitting FM and reapplying to pretty much the same unis. More importantly, I learnt the hard way that doing four A-Levels is pointless (especially when applying for maths at uni).

I've always been thinking in the back of my mind, had I dropped Physics I would've had so much more free time and less homework - maybe I could've pushed up my FM grade to at least an A and been at uni right now .

And to be honest, no university will care that you didn't do physics A-Level when applying for maths (apart from some Cambridge colleges - probably most actually ha, but still). On top of this, I've heard numerous times that Physics A-Level was in no way useful towards a Maths degree (I'm only 19!).

Even if you son wanted to (and was allowed to) carry on with four A-Levels, I'd strongly advise him to drop Physics nonetheless.

[moritzplatz]

(Original post by catoswyn)
Your posts imply you consider independence a great virtue... Fair enough but the fact you excluded your mother from any involvement but then had to ask her for the money to fly to the interview does rather undermine your point!

In truth, in life, co-operative working with others, whether these are your parents or not, is just as important as independence. No one is suggesting that the parents make the decision for him. This mother merely wants to be able to help if necessary and to be there for her son.

As for whether or not this would mean he was less suited for Oxford. The point is erroneous. In fact research shows that students whose parents are able to offer support because they themselves have attended university are more likely to be offerred a place than otherwise.

Anyway, congratulations on your place at Oxford!

quite unfair imho..
that's another reason why parents should stay away from the admission process.

[catoswyn]

(Original post by moritzplatz)
quite unfair imho..
that's another reason why parents should stay away from the admission process.

I too think its unfair that some students are at an advantage because of their school being better at advice than another or their parents understanding a process better than another parent. Unfortunately though its very hard to eradicate such things and create total equality. Rather than pushing parents away or such like it is surely better to try to spread the education and help and to try to make sure the information and support is out there for everyone. One purpose of TSR I suppose.

[Intriguing Alias]

(Original post by moritzplatz)
quite unfair imho..
that's another reason why parents should stay away from the admission process.

You can say it's unfair but there's no such thing as equality. There will always be ways to get an advantage - otherwise noone would get any priority over anybody else. Someone who is pushed to work harder by school/parents is more likely to get good grades, so it more likely to get into a good university. That's not something you can stop.

[Nervous Mum]

Hi guys

Well he dropped Physics, he was going to wait until September to make his decision but ultimately I think the new timetable started straight after AS and the thought of free periods may have played a part.

His response though was that rather than study for a subject that you are going to drop he can use the free period to do extra Maths study. Call me cynical but how walking in the park with a girl during a free is extra study I don't know.

He has now moved onto Statistics which is new for him, unfortunately he has two teachers for Maths, one is a God and the other he does not like or rate as a teacher and he is the one teaching them Statistics, as a whole the class have decided they are going to teach themselves. He has asked me to purchase an S1 book (which I have done). Apparently for the A Level they have to take 12 modules, the school he is at makes them take 13 and then i believe they drop the one with the lowest mark. He is going to study for an extra 2 modules which the school may pay for or alternatively we will. His reasoning behind this is because he does not like discrete/decision maths and does not feel he will have done particularly well here.

So now we move on the actual choosing of the Uni and I am struggling, his school will aim to put the applications through in October. Should we be visiting the Uni's before we put in the application or after we get (hopefully) offers.

I am a bit frustrated because he refused to look at Universities prior to his AS because he wanted to just concentrate on revising (which he did do). It seems however that now we have almost missed the boat on most of the open days.

His school did not hold the Degree information evening until end of April so this is making me think that maybe it is not imperative to get the visits in just yet.

Also worryingly he is starting to worry that he may not be cut out for University and wants to also look at other options. I have told him that other options will still involve a degree of study, his other options will be accountancy but as I explained before this is more about the fact that he really does not know what he wants to do.

I think the problem may be a knock in his confidence, his school has i believe four top sets at GCSE and he was probably 2nd or 3rd in his set, occasionally even first. In A level however he is now with the cream of the top sets and he is probably closer to the middle, this is affecting his confidence.

Sorry I know I am blabbing, so here we are we have now agreed that should he go to University he will study a General Maths degree (G100 i think). He has picked the following as Uni's to consider. Leeds, Liverpool, Sheffield, Bath, East Anglia, Lancaster, Nottingham, Leicester. Don't ask me how he came up with this list. Having looked at the list I can see that he has some quite good ones in there (I a basing this on an article i read by a Maths Professor at Manchester).

Sorry about the long post but quite worried as don't really know how to help him.

[Rosalind]

The title of this thread just made my morning

[Nervous Mum]

Also worryingly he is starting to worry that he may not be cut out for University and wants to also look at other options. I have told him that other options will still involve a degree of study, his other options will be accountancy but as I explained before this is more about the fact that he really does not know what he wants to do.

Sorry didn't explain myself here, what I meant to say was he was just following the route of Accountancy as he is good at Maths and can't really think where else to apply it, our advice has been to study a Maths degree as this will then give him another three or four years to decide which way he want's his career to go. He may still choose the Finance route but at least it leaves his options open.

[matt2k8]

(Original post by Nervous Mum)
Also worryingly he is starting to worry that he may not be cut out for University and wants to also look at other options. I have told him that other options will still involve a degree of study, his other options will be accountancy but as I explained before this is more about the fact that he really does not know what he wants to do.

Sorry didn't explain myself here, what I meant to say was he was just following the route of Accountancy as he is good at Maths and can't really think where else to apply it, our advice has been to study a Maths degree as this will then give him another three or four years to decide which way he want's his career to go. He may still choose the Finance route but at least it leaves his options open.

In some careers which you "can" get in to without a degree, there's a limit as to how far you can progress.

[matt2k8]

(Original post by Ree69)
I just thought I'd emphasise the somewhat common opinion to drop Physics. Last year I wanted to drop Physics (I wanted to just do Maths, FM, and Econ for A-Level) but I was effectively forced to continue it to A2 from my school because of some inaccurate advice from the department and my careers teacher:

"Your A-Level choices don't have sufficient breadth and diversity - it would be damaging to your UCAS application if you didn't do Maths, Further Maths and two more subjects to A2".

In my school it was effectively frowned upon to not do four A-Levels (where Maths and Further Maths were amongst them).

Long story short, I got A*A*BB - missed both university offers and took an expected gap year, resitting FM and reapplying to pretty much the same unis. More importantly, I learnt the hard way that doing four A-Levels is pointless (especially when applying for maths at uni).

I've always been thinking in the back of my mind, had I dropped Physics I would've had so much more free time and less homework - maybe I could've pushed up my FM grade to at least an A and been at uni right now .

And to be honest, no university will care that you didn't do physics A-Level when applying for maths (apart from some Cambridge colleges - probably most actually ha, but still). On top of this, I've heard numerous times that Physics A-Level was in no way useful towards a Maths degree (I'm only 19!).

Even if you son wanted to (and was allowed to) carry on with four A-Levels, I'd strongly advise him to drop Physics nonetheless.

This is because the school has a higher number of UCAS points achieved from someone getting A*A*BB than A*A*A.