[Ayshizzle]

(Original post by harmony_01)
For example, verse [4:34] translated in the orthodox way:

“As to those women on whose part you see ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (next) refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly, if it is useful); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance). Surely, Allaah is Ever Most High, Most Great”

Apparently, these bold parts are consider innovations.

Ok I can't really comment as I don't know Arabic and go back and translate it myself but all the translations I've read of that verse kinda look similar to the one including the brackets.

Btw where did you get that article quotation from? Please could you link me to it?

[harmony_01]

(Original post by Ayshizzle)
Ok I can't really comment as I don't know Arabic and go back and translate it myself but all the translations I've read of that verse kinda look similar to the one including the brackets.

Just note these words in brackets have been added in by scholars fit in line with the orthodox view, predominantly Sunni. Considering, 90% of Muslims are Sunni, it's not surprising to see this often.

Btw where did you get that article quotation from? Please could you link me to it?

Wikipedia.

[Ayshizzle]

(Original post by harmony_01)

Just note these words in brackets have been added in by scholars fit in line with the orthodox view, predominantly Sunni. Considering, 90% of Muslims are Sunni, it's not surprising to see this often.



Wikipedia.

Thanks for that interesting read!

With regards to them translating the Qur'an in different languages, are you aware of the Aramaic one?

[harmony_01]

(Original post by Ayshizzle)
Thanks for that interesting read!

With regards to them translating the Qur'an in different languages, are you aware of the Aramaic one?

First time I am aware of this.


I did google it, I think there's some sort of controversy with it. Apparently, this being the original language of the Qur'an.

[Ayshizzle]

(Original post by harmony_01)
First time I am aware of this.


I did google it, I think there's some sort of controversy with it. Apparently, this being the original language of the Qur'an.

Yeah it's quite difficult to do, as no-one speaks Aramaic anymore lol so apparently you have to have be fluent in Arabic, Hebrew, German, Italian and allsorts. It's an interesting approach though, I haven't read the book (only excerpts) and it seems plausible(ish).

Anyways, I'm going off-topic now, nvm

[kaboon-supreme]

(Original post by PandyAndy)
Muhammad married and had sex with a girl who was under 10 years old. Modern men still try to emulate him by marrying young girls.

jesus was rumored to have gay sex with a young boy. the bible says "at evening, the youth came to him wearing a linen cloth over his naked body. And he remained with him that night, for Jesus taught him the mystery of the Kingdom of God".

i bet he tought him about the kindom of god. many christians around the world still emulate this act hence we have the pedophile scandel in the churches around the world.

plus muhamed(pbuh) didnt marry a six or a nine year old, these are dirty rumors spread by christians who are scared because islam is the truth.

[Ayshizzle]

(Original post by kaboon-supreme)
plus muhamed(pbuh) didnt marry a six or a nine year old, these are dirty rumors spread by christians who are scared because islam is the truth.

Do you follow the hadith?

[kaboon-supreme]

(Original post by Ayshizzle)
Do you follow the hadith?

lol do i follow the hadith. take a guess.plus what are you traying to say.please convay your massage in a clear manner.

[sexbo]

All religions are all the same really. Bearded dude claims to come from the sky and tells you to believe in his bearded dad in the sky, you believe and do what he says and go to heaven.

[Ayshizzle]

(Original post by kaboon-supreme)
lol do i follow the hadith. take a guess.plus what are you traying to say.please convay your massage in a clear manner.

I was just wondering as I know some Muslims don't.

It says in Bukhari how old Aisha was at the time of marriage and consummation, and also in Sahih Muslim.

Sahih Muslim Book 8, No 3310:

'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house when I was nine years old.

Bukhari Vol 5, Book 58, No 234:

Narrated Aisha:

The Prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six (years)... Unexpectedly Allah's Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age.

I know more research has been done to suggest that she wasn't 9 at all (there's another thread on it on here) but would this suggest that the Hadith are not to be trusted?

[PandyAndy]

(Original post by kaboon-supreme)
jesus was rumored to have gay sex with a young boy. the bible says "at evening, the youth came to him wearing a linen cloth over his naked body. And he remained with him that night, for Jesus taught him the mystery of the Kingdom of God".

i bet he tought him about the kindom of god. many christians around the world still emulate this act hence we have the pedophile scandel in the churches around the world.

plus muhamed(pbuh) didnt marry a six or a nine year old, these are dirty rumors spread by christians who are scared because islam is the truth.

He may very well have had sex with a young boy. This doesn't change the fact that Big Mo married a 6 year old.

[Christianlady]

(Original post by facdroit)
Reading this forum and getting to know all the 3 religions more in depth made me realise that there are a lot of similarities between the 3 abrahamic religions.
Islam being the youngest while copying many aspects of the previous 2 should be considered a copy.
Do you agree?

Hello Facdroit,

I disagree for the following reasons:

1. Muslims claim that the Scriptures God gave to the Jewish people and the Scriptures God gave to the Christians were corrupted (before Muhammad's time). However, both Judaism and Christian beliefs do not believe that God allowed the Scripture He gave to the children of Israel through Moses and other prophets to be corrupted, but rather that He protected His Scripture, the Tanakh. Christians in addition believe that God protects the New Testament. Christians who understand Christan beliefs understand that Jesus came to fulfill the Law. Jesus did not say that the Law was corrupt. So, one of the most important differences between Muslims and other Abrahamic faiths is that Muslims believe people corrupted the Scriptures. Christians however believe that God is strong and vigilant in protecting the Scriptures, and that Jesus came to fulfill the Scriptures (the Tanakh)

Matthew 5 (NIV) - I boldened some.

"17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven."


2. Many Muslims claim that even Adam and Eve were Muslim, because to them, Muslim means a person surrendered/submitting to God. However, Muslim (the Arabic term) was not born until Muhammad. Most Non Muslims, since the time of Muhammad, define a Muslim as a person who follows Muhammad's teachings, which includes the Quran, and believe Muhammad's claims of prophethood. The Scriptures that God gave to the children of Israel, however, are in Hebrew, not in Arabic. The descendants of Abraham's son Isaac's son Jacob (Israel) spoke Hebrew and were originally called Hebrew, especially when the sons of Jacob lived in Egypt. God sent Moses to rescue the Hebrews (descendants of Jacob(Israel) from slavery in Egypt and bring them into the Promised Land. Did the Hebrew people in Moses' time identify themselves as Muslims? No. Why? They didn't speak Arabic.

3. Muhammad's claims are in opposition to Jewish ideals concerning prophets to them. For example, Moses was a descendant of Israel (Jacob) King David was a descendant of Israel (Jacob). Samuel, Ezekiel, Isaiah, Jeremiah, basically all if not the vast majority of the prophets to the Jewish people are descendants of Israel. So, even though it appears that Muhammad claimed he was a prophet like the Israelite prophets, he does not fit in that simple qualification. He is not a descendant of Israel (Jacob.)

4. Judaism does not accept Jesus being the Messiah, even though Jesus is a descendant of Israel. However, Jesus' 12 apostles were Jewish. The earliest Christians were Jewish. It was actually a surprise to the Jewish followers of Jesus that Gentiles could follow Jesus too! (See Acts 10 and Acts 15) so even though the majority of Jewish people do not accept Jesus as the Messiah, there are some who do. However, Muhammad makes the claim that Jesus is indeed a good prophet, which is a double impediment against his claims of himself being a prophet like the Israelite prophets.

5. Jewish Orthodox people do not put much emphasis on hell, nor do they typically believe that people who are not Jewish Orthodox will be tormented in a fiery torture forever and ever. So, Muhammad definitely is not copying their idea, because all throughout the Quran, hell is promised for those who do not accept him (Muhammad) as prophet. Jesus is very interesting. Jesus talked about hell mainly for those who did not care for others and who were not pure. (Please see Matthew 5:22-30, Matthew 18:9, the cutting off of body parts is considered to be the figure of speech hyperbole, which is basically stressing the importance of not lusting) Please also see Matthew 25:31-46 and Luke 16:19-31.) It is interesting as well that when the apostles of Jesus preached and talked about Jesus, they did not mention hell. So, it is possible that hell was an idea that grew through Greco-Roman converts to Christianity, and maybe Muhammad copied that?

Anyways, there are many other reasons why I don't agree that Islam is a copy of Judaism and Christianity. Some things that are similar and I respect are the following:

1. Seeking God, the One and Only God (although many Jewish Orthodox people and Muslims don't understand this, Christians do not believe in three gods, but rather that God is Triune... some Christians also believe that a human being is triune - spirit/soul/body, while others think a human being is spirit(soul) and body.
2. Emphasis on living for God, obeying Him (sadly, some Christians do not place much importance on obeying God, but Jesus said that those who love him obey his teaching - John 14:22-24)
3. Modesty and sexual purity - (sadly, some Christians do not follow God's guidelines, but God is their Judge, not me or anybody else)
4. Helping the poor - (Jesus made it so clear that people are to help the poor! Matthew 25:31-46 is one place where this is shown.)
5. Reading the Word (although each group differs in what they believe is the Word of God - Jewish people who do not accept Jesus as the Messiah do not believe the New Testament is the Word of God, while Christians both Jews and Gentiles believe both the Old Testament (which is basically the Tanakh) and the New Testament are the Word of God, and Muslims who believe the Quran is the Word of God and the previous Scriptures were corrupted)

Peace and God bless you

[kaboon-supreme]

(Original post by Christianlady)
Hello Facdroit,

I disagree for the following reasons:

1. Muslims claim that the Scriptures God gave to the Jewish people and the Scriptures God gave to the Christians were corrupted (before Muhammad's time). However, both Judaism and Christian beliefs do not believe that God allowed the Scripture He gave to the children of Israel through Moses and other prophets to be corrupted, but rather that He protected His Scripture, the Tanakh. Christians in addition believe that God protects the New Testament. Christians who understand Christan beliefs understand that Jesus came to fulfill the Law. Jesus did not say that the Law was corrupt. So, one of the most important differences between Muslims and other Abrahamic faiths is that Muslims believe people corrupted the Scriptures. Christians however believe that God is strong and vigilant in protecting the Scriptures, and that Jesus came to fulfill the Scriptures (the Tanakh)

Matthew 5 (NIV) - I boldened some.

"17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven."


2. Many Muslims claim that even Adam and Eve were Muslim, because to them, Muslim means a person surrendered/submitting to God. However, Muslim (the Arabic term) was not born until Muhammad. Most Non Muslims, since the time of Muhammad, define a Muslim as a person who follows Muhammad's teachings, which includes the Quran, and believe Muhammad's claims of prophethood. The Scriptures that God gave to the children of Israel, however, are in Hebrew, not in Arabic. The descendants of Abraham's son Isaac's son Jacob (Israel) spoke Hebrew and were originally called Hebrew, especially when the sons of Jacob lived in Egypt. God sent Moses to rescue the Hebrews (descendants of Jacob(Israel) from slavery in Egypt and bring them into the Promised Land. Did the Hebrew people in Moses' time identify themselves as Muslims? No. Why? They didn't speak Arabic.

3. Muhammad's claims are in opposition to Jewish ideals concerning prophets to them. For example, Moses was a descendant of Israel (Jacob) King David was a descendant of Israel (Jacob). Samuel, Ezekiel, Isaiah, Jeremiah, basically all if not the vast majority of the prophets to the Jewish people are descendants of Israel. So, even though it appears that Muhammad claimed he was a prophet like the Israelite prophets, he does not fit in that simple qualification. He is not a descendant of Israel (Jacob.)

4. Judaism does not accept Jesus being the Messiah, even though Jesus is a descendant of Israel. However, Jesus' 12 apostles were Jewish. The earliest Christians were Jewish. It was actually a surprise to the Jewish followers of Jesus that Gentiles could follow Jesus too! (See Acts 10 and Acts 15) so even though the majority of Jewish people do not accept Jesus as the Messiah, there are some who do. However, Muhammad makes the claim that Jesus is indeed a good prophet, which is a double impediment against his claims of himself being a prophet like the Israelite prophets.

5. Jewish Orthodox people do not put much emphasis on hell, nor do they typically believe that people who are not Jewish Orthodox will be tormented in a fiery torture forever and ever. So, Muhammad definitely is not copying their idea, because all throughout the Quran, hell is promised for those who do not accept him (Muhammad) as prophet. Jesus is very interesting. Jesus talked about hell mainly for those who did not care for others and who were not pure. (Please see Matthew 5:22-30, Matthew 18:9, the cutting off of body parts is considered to be the figure of speech hyperbole, which is basically stressing the importance of not lusting) Please also see Matthew 25:31-46 and Luke 16:19-31.) It is interesting as well that when the apostles of Jesus preached and talked about Jesus, they did not mention hell. So, it is possible that hell was an idea that grew through Greco-Roman converts to Christianity, and maybe Muhammad copied that?

Anyways, there are many other reasons why I don't agree that Islam is a copy of Judaism and Christianity. Some things that are similar and I respect are the following:

1. Seeking God, the One and Only God (although many Jewish Orthodox people and Muslims don't understand this, Christians do not believe in three gods, but rather that God is Triune... some Christians also believe that a human being is triune - spirit/soul/body, while others think a human being is spirit(soul) and body.
2. Emphasis on living for God, obeying Him (sadly, some Christians do not place much importance on obeying God, but Jesus said that those who love him obey his teaching - John 14:22-24)
3. Modesty and sexual purity - (sadly, some Christians do not follow God's guidelines, but God is their Judge, not me or anybody else)
4. Helping the poor - (Jesus made it so clear that people are to help the poor! Matthew 25:31-46 is one place where this is shown.)
5. Reading the Word (although each group differs in what they believe is the Word of God - Jewish people who do not accept Jesus as the Messiah do not believe the New Testament is the Word of God, while Christians both Jews and Gentiles believe both the Old Testament (which is basically the Tanakh) and the New Testament are the Word of God, and Muslims who believe the Quran is the Word of God and the previous Scriptures were corrupted)

Peace and God bless you

can you say that again please because i don't understand what you are trying to convay.

[Christianlady]

(Original post by kaboon-supreme)
can you say that again please because i don't understand what you are trying to convay.

Hello Kaboon-supreme,

What do you not understand please?

Peace and God bless you

[loves islam]

(Original post by Ayshizzle)
Firstly, any need to call me an idiot? I thought Muslims were meant to treat others well.

I have looked into Islam, I was referring to the quotation from the Qur'an independent of what the Hadith say, you would know this had you bothered to read anything else from the thread.

And what are you talking about when you say I believe a woman was created for man? I believe no such thing thank you very much. Maybe you should look into things before misquoting. And you call me an idiot. Honestly.

Edit: Oh and since you're so bent on me getting absolutely everything correct, the Hadith referring to the beating thing doesn't say toothbrush, it says miswak. If you hit someone with my electric toothbrush it would probably hurt a bit.

lol do you know what a miswak is? its like a toothbrush, and anyway i wasnt misquoting i was just reading what it said in the bible corithians

[Study]

(Original post by PandyAndy)
He may very well have had sex with a young boy. This doesn't change the fact that Big Mo married a 6 year old.

It's not a "fact" its what you choose to believe because you want to believe it.

[Ayshizzle]

(Original post by loves islam)
lol do you know what a miswak is? its like a toothbrush, and anyway i wasnt misquoting i was just reading what it said in the bible corithians

I do know what a miswak is, but you should have said miswak and not toothbrush cos that's not what it says in the Hadith.

Sure you were, you assumed what I believe and I'm not a Christian so why would I believe that?

[Ayshizzle]

(Original post by Study)
It's not a "fact" its what you choose to believe because you want to believe it.

Do you not follow the hadith?

Not trying to attack you or anything, just interested

[PandyAndy]

(Original post by pirate.)
Just curious, why did you apply to 5 year courses as a graduate?

Didn't feel I was competitive enough for a 4 year course.

[waqarasim]

No because Islam was created first. People think Islam began when the prophet mohammed (pbuh) came but there were many prophets before him and before jesus (pbuh)