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Islam a "genetic" problem?

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    Jean Philippe Rushton, a Canadian psychology professor at the University of Western Ontario, at a conference which was organized for the stated purpose of "addressing the need" to defend "America’s Judeo-Christian heritage and European identity" from immigrants, Muslims, and African Americans, said that Islam was not just a cultural, but also a genetic problem. He thought the religion and issues associated with it were not just a condition of the belief system. His theory is that Muslims have an aggressive personality with relatively closed, simple minds, and were less amenable to reason.

    The map of the mean IQ of indigenous populations of nations shows a markedly lower score in Islamic countries than in European countries.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Of Rushton's research methods, Harvard biologist E O Wilson had this to say,

    I think Phil is an honest and capable researcher. The basic reasoning by Rushton is solid evolutionary reasoning; that is, it is logically sound. If he had seen some apparent geographic variation for a non-human species-a species of sparrow or sparrow hawk, for example-no one would have batted an eye. (...) when it comes to [human] racial differences, especially in the inflamed situation in this country, special safeguards and conventions need to be developed.[40]

    Mod edit: Keep it civil and constructive here, please
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    There is a debate to be had about race and IQ, but Islam isn't a race. You've just highlighted the fact that muslims tend to come from poor countries.
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    I agree, its because most muslim women are uneducated and stay at home cleaning, having 10s of kids and obeying their husbands. Its a male serving religion that shows little respect to anyone except muslim men. I think most muslim women are born into it and have to live their life Islamic or be killed or disowned from the family. Most of them look bloody miserable, coincidently the pakistani girls I see at college and that look the happiest are the westernised ones who dress like us and speak english. The ones who cover themselves head to foot look like they wish they could commit suicide.
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    It makes perfect sense to me, and in fact, even without that study or similar studies, I would come to expect there to be large genetic differences across the different human subculturals and "races".

    We see it in thousands of other species of animal. Where they become geographically (and hence, genetically) isolated over time, we see large genetic differences between them.

    The geographic differences are only recently something that can be easily overcome by our modern methods of travel, but there are now still cultural safeguards to stop (or at least, severely limit) genetic mixing between different geographical areas.

    As for the specific conclusion about Muslims being drawn from this study - I'm not sure. It's probably correct, and it does make sense, but I suppose I don't like the idea of affording other religious people (Jews, Christians), etc, more intellectual repute than Muslims (especially as Jews, geographically, are in the same place as Muslims). Although, on a purely geographical basis, it is clear that those of European descent are (on average) a far more intellectual people.
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    Riight..so how did he come to this theory then? Granted you hear about terrorism etc but they don't make up the significant proportion of muslims. And what has IQ got to do with it? According to the map the Africans have a lower IQ than the Middle East :facepalm2:
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    I wouldn't describe a religion as a 'problem'.

    Also IQ is ineffective at being applied in non-westernised countries as they measure intelligence differently. For example knowledge of snake antidotes is going to be far more useful than what number comes after this sequence...
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    (Original post by Pawsies)
    I wouldn't describe a religion as a 'problem'.

    Also IQ is ineffective at being applied in non-westernised countries as they measure intelligence differently. For example knowledge of snake antidotes is going to be far more useful than what number comes after this sequence...
    Knowledge is knowledge, not intelligence. The IQ variations shown in the image are undisputed in academia. Nobody apart from the anti-defamation league believes there is an equal mean IQ across races.
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    (Original post by Notethis)
    Knowledge is knowledge, not intelligence. The IQ variations shown in the image are undisputed in academia. Nobody apart from the anti-defamation league believes there is an equal mean IQ across races.
    The fact people think knowledge is the same as intelligence proves their lack thereof. Sorry, you can't buy intelligence like you can knowledge
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    In ancient times, the Greeks had the highest IQ's, then it was the Romans, the Chinese, the Indians, and then when Europe was still in the DARK AGES, it was the MUSLIMS. After that, it was the Europeans and now it's the turn of the Americans.

    Measuring people's intelligence does not mean that a particular species are clever or dumb. It's just pointing out that different countries/peoples have different ways of learning according to how their society has evolved.

    In Arab/Muslim and even African countries, they don't give a **** what the next shape would be because, let's face it, why would they need it? In fact, Westerners who do those tests have no need for the applications of the "next shape" in modern life. For those with "low IQ" as suggested in that study, they rely more on PRACTICAL EXPERIENCE for measuring IQ.
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    (Original post by Chloe xxx)
    I agree, its because most muslim women are uneducated and stay at home cleaning, having 10s of kids and obeying their husbands. Its a male serving religion that shows little respect to anyone except muslim men. I think most muslim women are born into it and have to live their life Islamic or be killed or disowned from the family. Most of them look bloody miserable, coincidently the pakistani girls I see at college and that look the happiest are the westernised ones who dress like us and speak english. The ones who cover themselves head to foot look like they wish they could commit suicide.

    You'd have to have a low IQ to be a Muslim, otherwise you'd have the brain capacity to realise what a shockingly awful inhumane religion it is.
    A women gets huge respect within the islamic religion. You think they dont have any choice while many do. I know a few girls who have converted to islam and as they study medicine, they arent exactly 'uneducated' so where is your explanation with that?

    When my mum went to Dubai, she said she enjoyed seeing the islamic religion and could see why they would believe in it. For one she felt very safe and although was segregated at times, she didn't mind this and she felt a huge respect, loyalty and honesty from the men that she did encounter.

    How does IQ have any justifcation with being linked to religion? You have variation of IQ throughout all religions even christianity, judaism, sikhism and there are plenty of very intellectual people who follow islam.

    Only a very very small percentage of people give islam a bad reputation which is only exaggerated by the media. What about all the terrible things people who follow christanity has done and it was only say 70-80 years ago where Britain was very much like the islamic country? And what has it become now? A drinking country where chivalry is the minority now.

    I'm british chinese and an athiest. I respect all religion, in fact i envy those who believe in it.
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    (Original post by Notethis)
    Knowledge is knowledge, not intelligence. The IQ variations shown in the image are undisputed in academia. Nobody apart from the anti-defamation league believes there is an equal mean IQ across races.
    Yes but intelligence is measured through knowledge on IQ tests.

    It's unfair to compare people from two totally different cultures on their intelligence/knowledge.
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    (Original post by prog2djent)
    Muslims aren't a race.

    Looking at these countries, of course they will have lower IQ's, the women are suppressed and Religion teachings>science, reason, logic.
    Did I claim Muslims were a race?
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    (Original post by Bishy786)
    In ancient times, the Greeks had the highest IQ's, then it was the Romans, the Chinese, the Indians, and then when Europe was still in the DARK AGES, it was the MUSLIMS. After that, it was the Europeans and now it's the turn of the Americans.

    Measuring people's intelligence does not mean that a particular species are clever or dumb. It's just pointing out that different countries/peoples have different ways of learning according to how their society has evolved.

    In Arab/Muslim and even African countries, they don't give a **** what the next shape would be because, let's face it, why would they need it? In fact, Westerners who do those tests have no need for the applications of the "next shape" in modern life. For those with "low IQ" as suggested in that study, they rely more on PRACTICAL EXPERIENCE for measuring IQ.
    Btw, the eastern roman empire was still flourishing in the dark ages. Until the muslims conquered it and converted the populace.

    How did they measure IQ in the Islamic golden age btw?
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    (Original post by Bishy786)
    In ancient times, the Greeks had the highest IQ's, then it was the Romans, the Chinese, the Indians, and then when Europe was still in the DARK AGES, it was the MUSLIMS. After that, it was the Europeans and now it's the turn of the Americans.
    That, for a start, is wrong. Intelligence has evolved; it doesn't fluctuate with each new age. In terms of highest IQ, it is not the Europeans and Americans, but the Ashkenazi Jews and East Asians, followed by those of European descent.
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    (Original post by AndrewWong92)
    A women gets huge respect within the islamic religion. You think they dont have any choice while many do. I know a few girls who have converted to islam and as they study medicine, they arent exactly 'uneducated' so where is your explanation with that?

    When my mum went to Dubai, she said she enjoyed seeing the islamic religion and could see why they would believe in it. For one she felt very safe and although was segregated at times, she didn't mind this and she felt a huge respect, loyalty and honesty from the men that she did encounter.

    How does IQ have any justifcation with being linked to religion? You have variation of IQ throughout all religions even christianity, judaism, sikhism and there are plenty of very intellectual people who follow islam.

    Only a very very small percentage of people give islam a bad reputation which is only exaggerated by the media. What about all the terrible things people who follow christanity has done and it was only say 70-80 years ago where Britain was very much like the islamic country? And what has it become now? A drinking country where chivalry is the minority now.

    I'm british chinese and an athiest. I respect all religion, in fact i envy those who believe in it.
    I also have an old friend who is white, who used to get pissed, has had an abortion and used to sleep around who is now apparently a muslim. She wears all their gear, has aged about 15 years in doing so and now only ever writes Islam related crap on facebook. Shes like a different person, dissolved in a cult. She isnt with a muslim guy, shes just done it for the sake of it. I know a few like that, I think its some kind of warped trend, it tends to happen in the towns around here where there is lots of pakistanis.

    If I'm honest, I don't think its down to religion per se, it looks more like the IQ is lower in poverty stricken countries, however I believe this lack of IQ has also extended to immigrants in this country, and if you look at all the barbaric cultural practices in these countries it does give you an idea why they have such a low IQ. Its quite shocking really, its like they arnt as advance a species or something.

    And thats fine, until I receive a lot of respect from muslim men in my own country I'll make my own assumptions.
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    Well Britains getting a lot more nonwhite immigrants nowadays, to the point where British whites are diminishing rapidly. 22% of all primary schoolchildren are not white and this value is increasing.

    Hopefully it will continue to increase to put this stupid theory to rest.
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    Not really sure how far you could push a case like this. It depends at what point you want to try and make a case like this. I have wondered what mindset is required for a convert who goes from not being interesting to being deeply offended by drawings. How do you make a leap like that without some from of required mindset?
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    (Original post by Bonged.)
    Btw, the eastern roman empire was still flourishing in the dark ages. Until the muslims conquered it and converted the populace.
    Can't have been all that great if they fell to the "unintelligent Arabs".

    How did they measure IQ in the Islamic golden age btw?
    People did not used to compete for intelligence. They recognized that God gave the ability to some and not others. Instead they collaborated and tried their best to advance themselves.

    As for IQ, i guess you have to look at the literature/ideas that came out of Arabia/South Europe and look at the quality of life back then because it is an indication of how the intelligent people of society used to help the rest of the populace better themselves.
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    (Original post by Notethis)
    That, for a start, is wrong. Intelligence has evolved; it doesn't fluctuate with each new age. In terms of highest IQ, it is not the Europeans and Americans, but the Ashkenazi Jews and East Asians, followed by those of European descent.
    Exactly. The measure of the "highest IQ" is flawed in the sense that it measures intelligence as opposed to knowledge. Like you said, the intelligence has evolved as people share new ideas and people compete with each other. I agree with you.
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    (Original post by Chloe xxx)
    I also have an old friend who is white, who used to get pissed, has had an abortion and used to sleep around who is now apparently a muslim. She wears all their gear, has aged about 15 years in doing so and now only ever writes Islam related crap on facebook. Shes like a different person, dissolved in a cult. She isnt with a muslim guy, shes just done it for the sake of it. I know a few like that, I think its some kind of warped trend, it tends to happen in the towns around here where there is lots of pakistanis.

    If I'm honest, I don't think its down to religion per se, it looks more like the IQ is lower in poverty stricken countries, however I believe this lack of IQ has also extended to immigrants in this country, and if you look at all the barbaric cultural practices in these countries it does give you an idea why they have such a low IQ. Its quite shocking really, its like they arnt as advance a species or something.

    And thats fine, until I receive a lot of respect from muslim men in my own country I'll make my own assumptions.
    Well although she says that she is muslim, she isnt following the religion properly so how can you blame religion for her behaviour? What about christians that eat pork? in Genesis it says 'do not eat the flesh of the swine' yet many people do.

    The middle eastern countries are incredible rich...are you saying Dubai is poor? It is one of the richest in the world! So is Qatar. Immigrants to this country are doing so because they may want a better life and are experiencing civil war. And also, a lot are skilled and educated which the country needs to fill gaps in the economy.

    Well how much respect do you get from a night out with drunken men? Or maybe even walking down a street with a group of men outside a pub? (Yes i know i am stereotyping)

    Religion is just part of the person. It doesn't mean an entire race is like that. What about NATO? I'm sure a lot of them are christian or whatever religion they believe and yet they would 'assist' Libya for freedom yet they only got involved when oil exports was halted in the country and they assisted the rebels once they agree to export to Britain, America and western countries at a lower price? And thousands of civilians were killed from NATO. It wasnt like Gaddafi didnt have any support. To me it appeared 50/50 with rebels and supporters. So people from christian countries, killed innocent people, for corporate greed.

    Yet muslims who follow the religion properly, wont even accept interest on their bank accounts?
Updated: May 16, 2013
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