[Bishy786]

(Original post by FrigidSymphony)
Where have I failed to do so?

Go back to the last couple of pages and you'll see what I mean. Not one of the points that you have put forward has survived so now you are laying into me, my characteristics and anything that you think will provoke a reaction out of me.

[Bonged.]

(Original post by Bishy786)
So you are totally unaware of binge drinking and the specially adapted ambulances made solely for drunks on Friday/Saturday nights?

In making your above point, you have successfully deflected attention from answering the question to making something so irrelevant that the train of thought just dies out. Well done you.

What point were you actually making? I'm serious.

[FrigidSymphony]

(Original post by Bishy786)
Go back to the last couple of pages and you'll see what I mean. Not one of the points that you have put forward has survived so now you are laying into me, my characteristics and anything that you think will provoke a reaction out of me.

It's funny that you think so. I simply requested that you prove your assumption about family being the basis for society, which you have not done. Of course nice families are better than nasty families, but what this has to do with respect for women or the supposed superiority of Muslim culture, you have not said.

[Bishy786]

(Original post by Chloe xxx)
Do you know what independence is? Seriously?

Care to enlighten me?

Just because society at large is ignorant, doesnt mean that a gay person isnt happy and liberated. They would probably be happier if society was also liberated, but thats societies problem not theirs. No one has the right to dictate what anyone else does with their lives, aslong as it doesnt harm others. And none of those causes do.

I think the original point here was that if children in families were taught to respect everyone regardless of profession, views, beliefs etc, then society would be more liberated. As we have it, people are scared ****less of society because people think they are going to be judged on their views, beliefs, orientation, professions etc.

[Chloe xxx]

(Original post by Bishy786)
So you are totally unaware of binge drinking and the specially adapted ambulances made solely for drunks on Friday/Saturday nights?

In making your above point, you have successfully deflected attention from answering the question to making something so irrelevant that the train of thought just dies out. Well done you.

Stop generalizing, I used to go out every weekend and never ended up in hospital, and rarely rarely saw it happen to anyone else either. Stop exaggerating to try and prove your dead in the water point. We in the west dont want Islam. If you want to practice it, do, but have respect for us and dont try and take over, its simple as that. Only that is against Allahs words isnt it so muslims wouldnt do that, would they?

[Klare]

(Original post by Bishy786)
Let's speak in terms of hypothetical and analogies. I find it best rather than all that sociology aspects.

Would you say that a family which looks after it's young, ensures that they grow up to be kind, considerate and loving and passes all this on to their own descendants be a successful society?

On the other hand, we have a society where young people are not getting enough attention from their parents because their dad has gone AWOL and their mother is being forced to go out and work to earn for her family, she gets in tired and can't be bothered to cook as she is so tired and then wonders why her children turn to alcohol, smoking, crime, drugs etc which costs the NHS billions. Would the above be an indication of a successful society?


Which, in your opinion would be a better society?

If family is so important in Islamic societies than why aren't they producing so many kind, loving and considerate individuals? As a result these societies should have flourished and become very advanced, whereas the rest of us will have been drowned by binge drinking and prostitution. I don't see that happening.

The idea that muslim women are staying at home, enjoying their life and having every whim catered to, is a complete farce. A lot are pushed into arranged marriages and forced to live with and serve their husband and their in-laws, while their opinion is disregarded. They are completely isolated from society. What do they do when the children grow up and leave the house? They have no life of their own? We had this kind of arrangement in our own society and we definitely do not want it back. How can people of a religion that allows men to take up to 4 wives even dare to speak of what is moral?

[Bishy786]

(Original post by Bonged.)
What point were you actually making? I'm serious.

That point was not in referral to you. I replied back to you on another topic and you still haven't got back to me on that but nevertheless, I'll answer you.

I was making the point that one of the causes of family breakdown is not enough attention being given to the kids or the kids not being raised up in the "right manner". This leads them to crave attention elsewhere hence they become involved in gangs, alcohol, drugs etc which in turn leads to a total breakdown in society. Consequently, the government has to spend extra money trying to curb the effects of alcohol when they should instead be focusing on the FAMILY UNIT because that is where the root cause of all society problems are, in families.

[Playa10]

(Original post by Bonged.)
As were kuffar women in Islamic societies: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbary_slave_trade

I was talking about men selling their own wives....at what point did you see a muslim man selling his wife

[FrigidSymphony]

(Original post by Klare)
If family is so important in Islamic societies than why aren't they producing so many kind, loving and considerate individuals? As a result these societies should have flourished and become very advanced, whereas the rest of us will have been drowned by binge drinking and prostitution. I don't see that happening.

The idea that muslim women are staying at home, enjoying their life and having every whim catered to, is a complete farce. A lot are pushed into arranged marriages and forced to live with and serve their husband and their in-laws, while their opinion is disregarded. They are completely isolated from society. What do they do when the children grow up and leave the house? They have no life of their own? We had this kind of arrangement in our own society and we definitely do not want it back. How can people of a religion that allows men to take up to 4 wives even dare to speak of what is moral?

But didn't you read his posts? Women in Islam want to be completely controlled by men. This is proven by the fact that if you offered a room of women 10'000 pounds, they'd all take it!

[ALII]

(Original post by Chloe xxx)
I can insult it all I want, protected by law. I pity people that follow it, and try to deter Islam from peoples minds wherever possible, it is an evil cult that either needs abolishing or revamping with many verses cut out. However that wont happen as muslims believe it is the final untouched word of god, hence why so many treat kafirs like crap and many are terrorists.

There are approximately 2 billion Muslims in the world and only a handful are terrorists.. yeah that's "many".. stupid parasite

[Playa10]

(Original post by Chloe xxx)
Women are still sold like cattle for sex, many in Islamic countries. This is because 'slave girls' are allowed in Islam.

And thats not how they treat 'kafir' women is it? You know, the women whom many are living in their country

Clearly you lack the basic knowledge of other cultures. There is a difference between dowry and selling someone. Even if people do sell women there, that is not what Islam teaches. Don't go about making up stories. Only cretins would believe such ignorant assumptions.

And whilst we're on the concept of selling oneself, how is prostitution any different from selling someone for sex?

Perhaps you should concentrate less on emoticons and educate yourself....i don't think i have met anyone as mind numbingly dumb as you.

[Bishy786]

(Original post by FrigidSymphony)
It's funny that you think so. I simply requested that you prove your assumption about family being the basis for society, which you have not done. Of course nice families are better than nasty families, but what this has to do with respect for women or the supposed superiority of Muslim culture, you have not said.

I proved that based on my hypothetical situations which conveniently, you have chosen to ignore.

Society is just an extension of a family life. How you behave in society determines how you have been brought up and if there is no one around to raise you in the "right manner", then the family becomes dysfunctional. By extension, if this happens on a large scale, then society itself becomes dysfunctional.

A lot of societies problems can be cured by bringing families up in "the right manner", correct?

[ALII]

(Original post by Chloe xxx)
Stop generalizing, I used to go out every weekend and never ended up in hospital, and rarely rarely saw it happen to anyone else either. Stop exaggerating to try and prove your dead in the water point. We in the west dont want Islam. If you want to practice it, do, but have respect for us and dont try and take over, its simple as that. Only that is against Allahs words isnt it so muslims wouldnt do that, would they?

Funny you say that

[NYU2012]

(Original post by Bishy786)
That point was not in referral to you. I replied back to you on another topic and you still haven't got back to me on that but nevertheless, I'll answer you.

I was making the point that one of the causes of family breakdown is not enough attention being given to the kids or the kids not being raised up in the "right manner". This leads them to crave attention elsewhere hence they become involved in gangs, alcohol, drugs etc which in turn leads to a total breakdown in society. Consequently, the government has to spend extra money trying to curb the effects of alcohol when they should instead be focusing on the FAMILY UNIT because that is where the root cause of all society problems are, in families.

That's not entirely sociologically correct. Kids not being raised in the "right manner" does not necessarily lead to 'craving attention'; which in turn, doesn't necessarily lead to 'being in involved in gangs, alcohol, drugs, etc."

There are a multitude of factors at work and you cannot, in any reasonable way say that "THIS specific thing" is the problem. Many things can lead to gangs, alcohol and drugs.

[FrigidSymphony]

(Original post by Bishy786)
I proved that based on my hypothetical situations which conveniently, you have chosen to ignore.

Society is just an extension of a family life. How you behave in society determines how you have been brought up and if there is no one around to raise you in the "right manner", then the family becomes dysfunctional. By extension, if this happens on a large scale, then society itself becomes dysfunctional.

A lot of societies problems can be cured by bringing families up in "the right manner", correct?

Your hypothetical was riddled with fallacies. Do you know what a false dichotomy is? That's what you engaged in.

Incorrect. Society thrives on cooperation and cohesion- being taught to do that doesn't need to come from family. Wishful thinking on your part.

[FrigidSymphony]

(Original post by Playa10)
Clearly you lack the basic knowledge of other cultures. There is a difference between dowry and selling someone. Even if people do sell women there, that is not what Islam teaches. Don't go about making up stories. Only cretins would believe such ignorant assumptions.

And whilst we're on the concept of selling oneself, how is prostitution any different from selling someone for sex?

Perhaps you should concentrate less on emoticons and educate yourself....i don't think i have met anyone as mind numbingly dumb as you.

Selling a service you perform is different from being sold as a possession, as you retain control of your services.

[Piprod01]

Oh, how predictable!

The discussion has become about "Islam = Bad" instead of the original posting, as to whether there is a real IQ difference caused by genetics amongst Asian (predominantly Muslim ) populations.

Can the people bitching and counter-bitching about Islam "being bad" kindly GTFO?

[Bishy786]

(Original post by Chloe xxx)
Stop generalizing, I used to go out every weekend and never ended up in hospital, and rarely rarely saw it happen to anyone else either.

So now you know how Muslims feel when everyone calls them terrorists based on the minority of participants of Islam.

In reply, I give you two pictures equally relevant destroying your innocent assumptions.

Stop exaggerating to try and prove your dead in the water point. We in the west dont want Islam. If you want to practice it, do, but have respect for us and dont try and take over, its simple as that. Only that is against Allahs words isnt it so muslims wouldnt do that, would they?

Again you go deflecting attention away from the topic. Who said anything about Islam? Islam is not even a concern in this discussion, so why bring it up?

[Playa10]

(Original post by FrigidSymphony)
Selling a service you perform is different from being sold as a possession, as you retain control of your services.

In essence, there is no difference. You get sex on demand. At the end of the day, a prostitute goes to her own house, or maybe under a cardboard box. Whereas a sex slave remains in the house of her owner.

Of course, as i said, she clearly lacks the understanding of dowries.

[AU94]

Hello everyone,
First off, I am glad that you have posed this question. It is a common misconception that Muslims are an ethnicity. There are about 2.2 billion Muslims in the world today: some are in Egypt, some are in Tunisia, some are in Palestine, some are in Turkey, some are in the United Kingdom, the United States, etc. However, Islam is not an ethnicity. Islam is a religion, just like Christianity or Judaism is! Is "Christianity" an ethnicity? I don't think so, because I have got Egyptian Orthodox, Catholic, and Protestant Christian friends, and I have got Polish, German, and Nigerian Christian friends.
Ethnicity does not truely correlate with IQ. How? Let's see.. There are many examples from history that some colonists believed that slaves were 'stupid' just because they were 'black'. I am not being racist in any sense because racism is a fatal crime, but I am only mentioning what was actually said. Benjamin Banneker was a famous African American mathematician and astronomer. Maya Angelou is a widely respected author. Will Smith, Oprah, all these are very, very prominent figures in our world today, and beyond doubt, the American boxer "Cassius Marcellus Clay, Jr" who later reverted to Islam and became "Muhammad Ali" was of high intelligence. So, guys, why should we just judge others just because they are different from us? Hasn't the 'white race' also had its mistakes in the past? Anybody has taken history here and knows about the terror that the 'white race' has done to the indigenous Americans in the Americas, or the Arabs in Egypt, or the Africans in the 19th century? By the way, I DEFINITELY respect everybody here on the forum and am not pointing my fingers at anybody. This is not a fight. It is only a place to discuss things and exchange ideas.
Besides guys, we have also got some prominent Arab and Muslim scientists such as Nobel prize winner Ahmed Zewail who has won the prize in the physics domain and Farouk El Baz who has trained several Americans in the Apollo Program and has contributed a lot to the field of geology. Furthermore, nobody can argue that the Muslim scientists have greatly contributed to the field of algebra. Someone who I still thank to this day is "Al-Khawarizmi" and his algorithmic contributions.
Just one more piece of info. that I would like to share with all of you: there are many different kinds of intelligence: we have the "EQ" for example. Hence, we all probably have this friend with the best sense of humor, and who easily gets along with things, but he/she knows that he/she is not good with academics, and this is perfectly okay, because nobody is perfect. There is also what is called the "musical intelligence", which involves one's ability to distinguish rhythms and form very appealing musical patterns and sounds.
So, IQ has nothing to do with one's ethnicity. Yes, it can be a gift that one may have, but everybody is just gifted in a way.
By the way, I am an 18-year-old Egyptian Muslim girl and I have just recently received a certificate in specialized Islamic studies and comparative theology, and I am a high achiever at my school!
Many thanks for reading!