[squishy123]

(Original post by mariachi)
So, God placed a veil over our hearts, so that we cannot recognize the obvious truth

and then, God has the gall to complain, and even to torture us in hellfire for this...


"Those who reject Our Signs, We shall soon cast them into the Fire. As often as their skins are roasted through, We shall change them for fresh skins, that they may taste the penalty. For Allah is Exalted in Power, All-Wise" (Quran 4:56)

a confused, contradictory, vengeful divinity - I am afraid

best

Or one could choose NOT to accept what they had seen in front of their eyes.

If, for argument's sake, Jesus appeared in front of a die-hard atheist, would that particular atheist "accept Jesus" and transform himself into a Christian or would he make up something along the lines of, "it must be a result of the meds I've been taking"?

[Bilco]

(Original post by squishy123)
Or one could choose NOT to accept what they had seen in front of their eyes.

If, for argument's sake, Jesus appeared in front of a die-hard atheist, would that particular atheist "accept Jesus" and transform himself into a Christian or would he make up something along the lines of, "it must be a result of the meds I've been taking"?

What is more likely. What could be described as a miraculous event has occurred or that you are mistaken?

Lets not forget here that you pose your question as though the default position is the closed minded of the two. Sure I don't have to discuss what is more likely. A believer accepting evidence their position is incorrect or they move the goalposts to make their position fit. Generally speaking atheists will change their position if evidence dictates it. Generally a religious person will not.

[flutterby23]

(Original post by Chloe xxx)
Most women in the western world these days like to get out there and make their own life, and yes, that is more respectable than sitting on your backside having kids and having a man do everything for you (these type of men are usually the ones that cheat to as they have a frumpy mumsie wife that gives them no action), I pity any woman like that white or muslim, I know many and its such a boring tedious 50s life.

So making women believe that they have to work and earn a living to be "equal" to a man rather than being a mother for example (and have "freedom"), had nothing to do with the government reaping the rewards through taking more taxes?
I, being a muslim woman, DO work and that is my choice. At least I am not made to feel inadequate if I chose not to work and look after my children in the future

[flutterby23]

(Original post by Chloe xxx)
Learn to spell and not speak in txt talk you small child, then start preaching who is 'dumb'

Trust you on this thread to use 'pig' as an insult. Ha. Next you'll be calling me a 'bone in a kebab' :P

Who cares about negative rep, many of the posters on here are muslim extremist sympathisers or similar.

"txt talk"....IRONIC

[Xotol]

(Original post by squishy123)
Or one could choose NOT to accept what they had seen in front of their eyes.

If, for argument's sake, Jesus appeared in front of a die-hard atheist, would that particular atheist "accept Jesus" and transform himself into a Christian or would he make up something along the lines of, "it must be a result of the meds I've been taking"?

Have you ever heard of hallucinations? It's a proven phenomenon, unlike your God unfortunately.

Having said that, were Jesus to show up in front of a number of people and perform miracles, then yes, I would convert. All I need is enough evidence to show me that the supernatural is more likely in a given scenario; that is all.

[.eXe]

(Original post by Xotol)
Have you ever heard of hallucinations? It's a proven phenomenon, unlike your God unfortunately.

Having said that, were Jesus to show up in front of a number of people and perform miracles, then yes, I would convert. All I need is enough evidence to show me that the supernatural is more likely in a given scenario; that is all.

Two points:

1) Just because evidence is not presented does not mean it doesn't exist. Also as an extension, just because evidence of one thing is presented, doesn't mean that it is the only explanation for a certain phenomenon. Your argument that hallucinations exist and are scientifically shown to exist does not automatically establish that no other explanation exists, so your (God is not proven) argument is useless.

2) Most people are like you (including myself earlier on). Often it's difficult to accept something without absolute certainty. But in all honesty, we do that on a daily basis. For example, when you take a bus...you do not know how its engine works, how it combusts, which fuel it uses, where it comes from, how much is required, whether it still has fuel or not, etc. You don't know many things...and yet you BELIEVE that the bus will move, the engine will work, the fuel is there and that you will get to your destination...all of this...without ever needing to prove to yourself many things.

So just keep an open mind. Humans are capable of belief...they don't always require evidence before they begin to believe. Just requires open-mindedness and the ability to accept things that you may not necessarily seem, feel, touch and provide scientific evidence for.

[squishy123]

(Original post by Xotol)
Have you ever heard of hallucinations? It's a proven phenomenon, unlike your God unfortunately.

Having said that, were Jesus to show up in front of a number of people and perform miracles, then yes, I would convert. All I need is enough evidence to show me that the supernatural is more likely in a given scenario; that is all.

You've just demonstrated what a die-hard atheist would do. Dismiss it as hallucinations instead of accepting it for what it is.

[Xotol]

(Original post by .eXe)
Two points:

1) Just because evidence is not presented does not mean it doesn't exist. Also as an extension, just because evidence of one thing is presented, doesn't mean that it is the only explanation for a certain phenomenon. Your argument that hallucinations exist and are scientifically shown to exist does not automatically establish that no other explanation exists, so your (God is not proven) argument is useless.

Did I deny that? No, you're just putting words in my mouth. Of course your God or any other God can possibly exist, but the assertion you make is supernatural and currently unsubstantiated. For extraordinary claims, I need extraordinary evidence.

I don't deny that the possibility or another explanation could exist, but I see absolutely no reason to believe in it.

2) Most people are like you (including myself earlier on). Often it's difficult to accept something without absolute certainty. But in all honesty, we do that on a daily basis. For example, when you take a bus...you do not know how its engine works, how it combusts, which fuel it uses, where it comes from, how much is required, whether it still has fuel or not, etc. You don't know many things...and yet you BELIEVE that the bus will move, the engine will work, the fuel is there and that you will get to your destination...all of this...without ever needing to prove to yourself many things.

I ride a bus because there is a lot of evidence in the real world to say that they work. Of course, they fail sometimes, but statistically, that is a very small probability in comparison to it working safely. Why? Because it has been tested again and again. If I had never seen a bus work before, I would be hesitant to ride on it.

The belief I have in a bus is very different to a belief in God.

So just keep an open mind. Humans are capable of belief...they don't always require evidence before they begin to believe. Just requires open-mindedness and the ability to accept things that you may not necessarily seem, feel, touch and provide scientific evidence for.

Even if I acquire the ability to be 'open-minded' (which I happened to be a couple of years ago), I see no reason to believe in the God you believe. In fact, without solid evidence that your God exists above all other versions, I would first of all believe in a Deistic/Pantheistic. The notion isn't as logically absurd as a God that throws people in eternal hellfire because of something as trivial in the grand scheme of things as disbelief.

(Original post by squishy123)
You've just demonstrated what a die-hard atheist would do. Dismiss it as hallucinations instead of accepting it for what it is.

Ridiculous. Under what basis can you say that it was divine, instead of a scientific phenomena which has been proven to exist? Why do these 'visions' appear to only select people other than the convenient explanation that God chooses? Hallucination is more of a valid answer than your God without evidence for your God.

Also, I am not a 'die-hard' atheist. If you give me evidence which isn't absurd and logically inconsistent, I'm more than happy to subscribe to your belief. Until then, please don't throw around visions as though are adequate.

[Celticbabe]

Where are you hiding Quark000? Pity you didn't respond to my post. I now have to leave this thread for good as I am in the midst of studying for my forthcoming exams.

Food for thought

All religions are just a superficial reflection of truth.

Heaven/Hell and Re-incarnation within the Buddhist, Hindu belief systems only exist so long as there is ignorance.

All such theories are based on the false assumption that the individual self or soul is real. Once this illusion is seen through, the whole superstructure of after-life theories collapses. From the standpoint of Self, there is no birth or death, no heaven or hell, and no-reincarnation.

There is the tendency of the mind to identify itself with the body. Once the limiting illusion of mind is transcended identification with the body ceases, and all theories of death and re-incarnation are found to be inapplicable.

With some knowledge of Quantum Physics you might be able to grasp this. This concept is more or less taught within the philosophy of Advaita (Non-Dual) Vedanta. (Look to the great mystic/sage Sri Ramana Maharshi).

For the layperson, I also recommend the following books:

"Nothing I See Means Anything- Quantum Questions, Quantum Answers" by David Parrish M.D.

"Tao of Chaos-DNA and the I-Ching, Unlocking the Code of the Universe" by Katya Walter.

[zosolobos0]

what a mod.

should i start a thread on gay people having some despicable mental illness and quote the chinese government? Or maybe one about Satoshi Kanazawa? unbelievable.

[ah07171]

(Original post by Chloe xxx)
Oooh, another irritated poster. Shows how much I grind on you with your disgusting language.

Atleast when I voice my opinions on Islam, even in the first post on this thread I dont have to use any swearing or profanities to get my point across.

Like I care what you think, likewise I have no respect for you or some other posters on here.

Haha I don't thin many care about your respect.

[LeonVII]

Oh please, Islam is clearly not genetic.

[Howard]

(Original post by Bonged.)
There is a debate to be had about race and IQ, but Islam isn't a race. You've just highlighted the fact that muslims tend to come from poor countries.

Or has he merely highligted that these countries are poor because of Islam?

[Howard]

(Original post by LeonVII)
Oh please, Islam is clearly not genetic.

Mental illness is genetic.

[Amiro123]

(Original post by ah07171)
Haha I don't thin many care about your respect.

You waited for one year to reply to her post?