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Was player power responsible for AVB being sacked or...

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    ...was he not good enough?

    I'll be making a few threads that discussing certain points about AVB's time at Chelsea. But I'll start with whether AVB was the right choice to be the new manager and I'll be challenging the authenticity of the allegations that player power was responsible for AVB's sack. Was AVB the saint that some make him out to be?


    Firstly, Carlo Ancelotti shouldn't have been sacked in the first place. It was a bad decision by Roman A. and the board. After Carlo won the double in his first season, he should have been given another season to improve on his slightly frustrating second season. And he didn't do that bad to finish 2nd in the league after coming out of a period of bad form. But unfortunately, the board had different ideas. So, a vacancy was open for the opportunity to rebuild chelsea's squad and this required excellent analysis and decision making to decide the right manager to take chelsea forward.

    AVB shouldn't have been given the job. After the previous season, chelsea's squad obviously needed rebuilding and the manager that was needed was one that had a record of building good teams and either has a record of winning trophies over a reasonable period of time or has many years of managerial experience. AVB did not meet these requirements. I'm sorry but being successful for one year doesn't make someone a great manager indefinately. It only makes them good for that particular year alone. What makes a great manager is someone who is successful regularly over a number of years (a least for 3 years). Additionally, the manner of the success is also important. Winning an inferior league and winning an inferior european trophy, while it shows you've got talent, it doesn't necessarily mean you're ready to manage R.Madrid or Man Utd. Now, if you do get the job and you're successful over a period of time (e.g. Guardiola), then fair play. You're definitely good. But if you flop like AVB, then you need to get more experience.

    Like I said, AVB was definitely talented as shown by his success with Porto for one year and improving Academica for less than a year. But that didn't mean he was ready for the job at hand which was to rebuild chelsea and make them great again. When did he rebuild a team and lead them to success over a number of years? Yep, that's right. Never. So it was foolish by the board to make AVB the new manager and spend loads of money to do it.

    But AVB was the manager and he had an opportunity to make a real name for himself. However, he made a mistake during the summer transfer window which came back to bite him on bum. He didn't sell some of the players on the decline and replace them with his own players which would have helped to stamp his own authority on the club. Instead, he decided to give some of them another chance and unfortunately, it came back to punish him. It's worth noting that AVB's aim was to challenge for the league and possibly the CL as well (http://www.skysports.com/story/0,195...098274,00.html). He obviously thought his squad was good enough to do it, otherwise he should have made squad changes during the transfer window. And to be fair, why wouldn't the squad be good enough? They came second the previous year in the league and strengthened their team with the likes of Mata. Coming 5th in the league or scraping forth was never the expectations of AVB or Roman A. And I'm sure most chelsea fans didn't think their squad was that bad to be finishing 5th in the league.

    Now, the season began. Things were decent to start of with but later on, problems began to appear as evidenced by the results. Suprisingly to me, a lot of chelsea fans blamed the players for all of chelsea's bad results. Others blamed AVB. But few fans blamed both AVB and the players (the true answer).

    Some of the media claimed that there was too much player power at chelsea (esp. from the 'old guard') and this was apparently the reason for chelsea's bad results. Astonishly, many people believed these stories and fell for the deliberate agenda by a section of the media and fans. Their aim seemed to be to tarnish the legendary status of the likes of Lampard and Drogba. So they made up many things to harm their targets' reputations and this was fine with the Pro-AVB fans, who were so infatuated with AVB that they were willingly to fall for it (it was also fine with fans of other clubs who despise chelsea and their players and used these stories as an opportunity to have a go at chelsea's players and Roman A.). The names of Drogba, Lampard, Cole and Terry were popular among other names of those who apparently were the biggest criminals of player power and were responsible for chelsea's woes.

    But here's my question to those fans who believe those stories: please give me proof/strong evidence that all those players are egomaniacs and have too much power in the dressing room? Because from what I've seen, Drogba, Cech, Terry and Lampard (at one point) have been supportive of AVB (click their names for instances where they have given AVB support). So why are so many fans baying for their blood? As for Lampard, while he has admitted that his relationship with AVB isn't exactly great, he hasn't said much wrong imo. He admitted that he wanted to play more games but understands he can't be playing every game (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/foo....html?ITO=1490). I don't see much wrong with that. But despite these things, I would still like to see proof of this so-called player power at chelsea. Where is proof that they went to Roman to get AVB sacked?

    Also, isn't it the responsibility of a manager to be able to deal with egos in the dressing room? He has to be tough and show who's boss. Look at Mancini. If anyone at City steps out of line, he disciplines them. If anyone was being disruptive at Chelsea, then surely AVB should just have left them on the bench or discipline them? I don't see how many fans believe the 'old guard' were solely responsible for chelsea's woes. Anyone remember Chelsea vs Birmingham at Stamford Bridge? Drogba and Lampard were on the bench. Terry and Cole also didn't play. Yet what was the score at half time? 1-0 to Brum. Chelsea were losing even without the "evil old guard". So were the old guard really at fault for chelsea's season or did AVB have more of a stake in who was the blame? To further challenge the allegations of player power being the source of chelsea's woes, Ray Wilkins (who spent over a year at Chelsea as Carlo's assistant) has different views to the "knowledgeable" Pro-AVB fans. In contrast to the Pro-AVB fans, he claims that the players were nice during his time there and he had no problems with them (http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news...cle874588.html). So clearly, the players couldn't have been that bad in terms of their egos?

    Edit: Look at post 3 for the rest of my OP.
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    you typed all this out while the arsenal game is on shame on you
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    Now, while AVB may have had a few disagreements with some players which is part and parcel of being a manager, I don't think it was enough to push the full blame of chelsea's bad season onto the players. It's clear that some of the players didn't put in as much effort as they should have and while that is bad (since they should be playing for the club and fans, not necessarily for themselves and the manager), there may have been reasons for their poor effort and their bad results. Here's one reason among others:

    AVB's man-management wasn't exactly great
    .

    Now, most fans would love it if footballers were always playing the club and fans, rather than putting good performances only because they like the manager. But welcome to modern football. The relationship between the manager and the players is very influencial in how much effort the players will put into their performances. And this is why managers must have good man-management skills and keep their players onside.

    AVB didn't seem so blessed in this area. He banished Anelka and Alex from first team training after their transfer requests (http://www1.skysports.com/football/n...dset-different). Now, these are first team players who have been at chelsea for years and are likely to have good relationships with their team-mates but AVB didn't seem to think that was of much importance in his first few months at the club. I don't buy his reasons for this decisions and it is possible that this decision may have had a bad influence in the relationships between AVB and the players. How do you think the first team players felt when their mates were prevented from training with them?

    Then later, he said that he didn't need the players' support and somehow, he still expects them to be performing for him? What the hell was he thinking? It is no wonder that some of the players didn't play out of their skin to help AVB. However, I'm still of the opinion that players should be playing for the club and give 100% effort for the fans. Regardless of their feelings towards AVB (whether positive or negative), they still earn thousands of pounds per week and should be putting in effort for the fans who pay part of their wages. There was no doubt that people like Terry have put in effort in every game he has played. You can't deny his passion and devotion to Chelsea. So why are so many fans quick to turn on him and spew hateful words at him? But same thing cannot be said for some players like Meireles for example. The way he ran away from Lavezzi, giving him the space to score, was disgraceful imo. There was no effort there to close down Lavezzi and it's not good enough for a club like Chelsea.

    Lastly, there were times when certain players hit poor form and were still getting picked in the starting team. I can't believe the number of games that Bosingwa, Meireles and Cole started when they were poor and there were better options. How are the likes of Lampard supposed to feel when people like Meireles are playing rubbish week in-week out and they're still on the bench? Do you expect them to be happy? Why the hell did AVB keep playing Malouda? How many poor performances did Malouda need to put in for AVB to realise he was crap and shouldn't play?

    Later on, I will give reasons for why I think that AVB deserved to be sacked and why I think AVB should be blamed along with the players for chelsea's poor season so far.
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    (Original post by franzk)
    you typed all this out while the arsenal game is on shame on you
    :rofl:
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    (Original post by Cable)
    x
    Really good post, before reading it I was very much of the opinion that the sacking of AVB was a poor decision and I was primarily placing blame for his sacking on our players and also the board for their continual poor judgement, but I'm giving it a think over.

    Everything I'm going to say is said with the benefit of hindsight but that doesn't mean the board haven't made stupid errors. I agree with the Ancelotti scenario, he should have never have been sacked especially considering how our season has been going so far, we could have done with an experienced head. It was a mistake to invest so heavily in Villas Boas. We were not in a good place and it was probably best for him to get more than a season or two of management experience under his belt before taking over such a big club. Though I do think he has to be given credit for what he accomplished at Porto, to go unbeaten in the league and win the Europa League was a feat that shouldn't be forgotten. It was always going to be a risk taking him on. I'd like to think the Jose factor played a part, with AVB having worked with him for so long then gone on to have European success with Porto just like Jose helped to cloud judgement of the board. But regardless, to have spent so much to sack Ancelotti to then go ahead and spend big money to bring in another manager, you have to be sure he is the right guy. And although you can never guarantee anything in football the risk in bringing AVB in was clear but the board decided to go on with it anyway.

    As far as player power goes, in hindisight, getting rid of one or two players who were perhaps more obvious surplus requirements i.e Kalou perhaps Malouda may have been a better way of demonstrating his authority instead of benching Frank on a couple of occasions (He's made 23 app from 27 league games this season, not as ostracised as you might think) for what it seemed to be non-footballing reasons. But I think that when a new manager comes in it is generally assumed that players get a 'clean slate' and maybe it would have been unfair to let go of Malouda/Drogba who have been good in previous seasons.

    Though even in spite of their presence in the squad, have they actually got AVB sacked? I was very much of this thinking, it was the likes of Cole, Terry, Didier and Frank along with some of the other lads who have been pushed out of the team (Kalou, Mikel, Malouda) and I was even thinking the likes of Mata and Torres were lacking any support for the coach. But barring speculation and general opinion I'm not sure if things were are cynical as made out. For sure there definitely were player who weren't supportive of AVB, I think the lads who were being phased out and perhaps Cole though his form of late has done him no favours.

    I don't know if it all adds up, Frank has always been a well spoken respectful individual off and on the pitch and although he has made it clear he wants to play games and he plays better with games under his belt he doesn't seem like the kind of person to influence others. I don't think he was buying the project AVB was trying to get across and his lack of faith in the coach probably effected his motivation to play as well as he could for the team and thats probably similar for other players. Didier (made 16apps from 27 games, missed 6 due to ACN) has always been associated with a strong presence in the dressing room but I can think of multiple occasions when he's spoke well of the club and AVB directly and again, why would he complain he's also got a lot of game time this season. Essien's been out 90% of this campaign so hasn't had much to complain about and Cech has put in some good performances this campaign. The only two very senior players I would say might have had a vendetta against AVB are Cole and Terry. Neither in particulary great form (though Terry hasn't had a bad season) both struggling to adapt to a new way of defending and both frustrated by poor results.

    When it comes down to it, all of the players have been suffering by our awful run of results since December and perhaps the buck has to stop with the manager. You do have to look at his man management skills and the mistakes that were made on his part. To ostracise two senior players the way he did to Alex and Anelka was a bit out of order, he also managed to get Tommy Langley sacked from Chelsea TV. He didn't make things easy for himself and the players responded accordingly.

    I already written quite a bit so I might finish my point off at another time because I still do think the players abused their power in the team to force the board into a decision but haven't quite got to that. One thing I'll quickly add though is the celebrations today after the goals, a lot of our senior lads were on the bench today but the way they celebrated after Meireles scored was something I haven't seen for a long while, it was almost as if a weight had been lifted now AVB had gone.
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    You just know Lampard was the ego behind his downfall, what a cute sly fox he is! Heard he got booed by Chelsea fans tonight. Brilliant. AVB used to sleep in a pod at the training ground such was his commitment to CFC, only for this spoilt brat to get him the chop.
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    Sorry, but I will have to disagree with some of your points. I'm writing a response now though
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    (Original post by Hatchet)
    R.
    Hey, I didn't log onto TSR for over a week, so I didn't catch your reply to me in the other thread. It was a great post just like the one you've just posted. Sorry for the late reply but you can have a pos+ rep from me.

    In response to your post in the other thread, I believe that although AVB deserved to be sacked (according to Abramovich's standards/expectations), I think the board should have been patient with AVB and be prepared for AVB to make mistakes in his first season. Obviously, this would have carried with it the risk of dropping out of the top 4. But if Roman A. didn't want to risk that, then he shouldn't have hired AVB in the first place. If AVB had been spared another season, who knows what could have been when he got his own players?

    It's late now so I won't give a complete response to your post ITT. But it was a good read and I'll reply later.

    Btw, here's a link of Terry supporting AVB: http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news...cle848752.html
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    Whilst i admit AVB was not ready for the job, he never had the backing of the dressing room so was never given a fair chance. Players will never come out and say this for fear of retribution, but they never showed support for him. They have not done for a few managers, look at how many of our ex managers have now criticized the behaviour of a few individuals. Its these who are behind why we have had so many managers recently, shipping the managers isnt gona cut it. We need to ship the players on over inflated egos, wages and on the wrong side of 30. Not one of (Malouda, Drogba, Kalou, Lampard, Cole, Mikel) has shown any form for a long time, since before AVB, it all started 18 months ago, when Wilkins left. Although i dont believe that to be the reason for the decline, alot of it was bad luck and lack of confidence from a bad run of form. Its funny how the players who have supported AVBs philosophy have shined this year, Mata, Sturridge, Romeu and Ramires.
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    Of course, Lampard, Terry, Cole, Drogba and co are all whiny ballbags that think they should be starting every game no matter how crap they've become.
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    (Original post by daviesblue)
    Whilst i admit AVB was not ready for the job, he never had the backing of the dressing room so was never given a fair chance. Players will never come out and say this for fear of retribution, but they never showed support for him. They have not done for a few managers, look at how many of our ex managers have now criticized the behaviour of a few individuals. Its these who are behind why we have had so many managers recently, shipping the managers isnt gona cut it. We need to ship the players on over inflated egos, wages and on the wrong side of 30. Not one of (Malouda, Drogba, Kalou, Lampard, Cole, Mikel) has shown any form for a long time, since before AVB, it all started 18 months ago, when Wilkins left. Although i dont believe that to be the reason for the decline, alot of it was bad luck and lack of confidence from a bad run of form. Its funny how the players who have supported AVBs philosophy have shined this year, Mata, Sturridge, Romeu and Ramires.
    Can you give examples please?

    Apart from Drogba and Ballack, I haven't heard any stories from ex-managers about other egomaniacs in the club. I don't believe that a few egos in a club can cause the manager to make poor team selections and make poor substitutions. I don't think the players are as bad as some are making out.

    I'm not saying the players don't deserve some blame but AVB must also get some blame as well. I think he could have gone about his business a lot better. I cannot fault AVB's effort and dedication to the job but unfortunately, it wasn't good enough for Roman.
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    (Original post by Fusion)
    You just know Lampard was the ego behind his downfall, what a cute sly fox he is! Heard he got booed by Chelsea fans tonight. Brilliant. AVB used to sleep in a pod at the training ground such was his commitment to CFC, only for this spoilt brat to get him the chop.
    Wow. If that's true, then my respect for AVB and my contempt for CFC have increased tenfold.
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    (Original post by HSG1992)
    Wow. If that's true, then my respect for AVB and my contempt for CFC have increased tenfold.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2110222/Andre-Villas-Boas-sacked--Roman-Abramovich-blames-players.html
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    (Original post by Hatchet)
    e.
    And here is a link of Ashley Cole's block to stop napoli scoring 4 goals:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eP_Av0owvYc
    Here's a link of Terry making a goal line clearance/block: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoMtWIzZDJU (watch from 0.58).
    Now, if Cole really hated AVB, then surely he wouldn't have put in the effort to get into that position and stop napoli scoring again. Surely it would have been worse for AVB if napoli won by a bigger margin. Hence it would make sense for Cole not to have made that block if he really hated AVB. But that wasn't really the case, was it? Same thing goes for Terry.

    I'm not rejecting the possibility of there being egos at chelsea and I'm not saying the players are saints in any of this. But it's a very bold claim from people to say that the players went up to Roman and tried to get AVB sacked, or that some of them deliberately underperformed to try and get AVB sacked. I would like to see the evidence of these things from the people who believe those player power stories. Just a quote from Roman or members of the board would do. And if players were underperforming (e.g. Bosingwa, Malouda), why didn't AVB just drop them on the bench or not play them at all?
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    (Original post by Cable)
    Can you give examples please?

    Apart from Drogba and Ballack, I haven't heard any stories from ex-managers about other egomaniacs in the club. I don't believe that a few egos in a club can cause the manager to make poor team selections and make poor substitutions. I don't think the players are as bad as some are making out.

    I'm not saying the players don't deserve some blame but AVB must also get some blame as well. I think he could have gone about his business a lot better. I cannot fault AVB's effort and dedication to the job but unfortunately, it wasn't good enough for Roman.
    If you followed Chelsea you would already know of the examples, both Scolari and Grant have over the past 18 months told of the behaviour of players in training, also remember the Drogba situation under Scolari, and how the players reacted in october 2007 when Grant was put in charge. Drogba is a fantastic player when he wants to be, but his behaviour during those Scolari's tenure was despicable for a professional footballer. Even playing semi pro, my team have enough respect to listen to our coach and not undermine him. You seem to be forgetting how disrespectful our players have been over recent years. Remember the Ovrebo situation, also who brings guns into training grounds, smoke grenades, etc. These players are getting away with too much.
    You are forgetting too many scenarios these players keep getting involved in, its not a coincidence, they are the bad apples.

    (Original post by Cable)
    And here is a link of Ashley Cole's block to stop napoli scoring 4 goals:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eP_Av0owvYc
    Here's a link of Terry making a goal line clearance/block: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoMtWIzZDJU (watch from 0.58).
    Now, if Cole really hated AVB, then surely he wouldn't have put in the effort to get into that position and stop napoli scoring again. Surely it would have been worse for AVB if napoli won by a bigger margin. Hence it would make sense for Cole not to have made that block if he really hated AVB. But that wasn't really the case, was it? Same thing goes for Terry.

    I'm not rejecting the possibility of there being egos at chelsea and I'm not saying the players are saints in any of this. But it's a very bold claim from people to say that the players went up to Roman and tried to get AVB sacked, or that some of them deliberately underperformed to try and get AVB sacked. I would like to see the evidence of these things from the people who believe those player power stories. Just a quote from Roman or members of the board would do. And if players were underperforming (e.g. Bosingwa, Malouda), why didn't AVB just drop them on the bench or not play them at all?
    This is how i can tell you dont play football yourself, a player no matter who his manager is wil make these blocks/interceptions because it is in their nature to play and try and win the game. The problems Cole and a few others created were on the training ground, they didnt try and follow AVBs approach. This was evident on the pitch when a few of them were still trying the narrow wing back approach of Ancelotti, wherein they overlap. However AVB at Porto discouraged this, for it was needless in that formation and made you susceptible at the back since they used marauding centre halves. Cole did not adhere to this, and its why i can see now how Alvaro Pereira was linked to us. They did not deliberately underperform as any player wants to win, the fact is they didnt try and adopt AVBs philosophy and so this led to a team playing on different wavelengths.

    We dont know what discussions went on with RA, however we do now know he in fact addressed the players and told them he knew they wernt pulling their weight. I am glad he now can see this issue, hopefully we can ship them out and start again like in 03/04.
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    (Original post by daviesblue)
    1) If you followed Chelsea you would already know of the examples, both Scolari and Grant have over the past 18 months told of the behaviour of players in training,

    2) also remember the Drogba situation under Scolari,

    3) and how the players reacted in october 2007 when Grant was put in charge.

    4) Drogba is a fantastic player when he wants to be, but his behaviour during those Scolari's tenure was despicable for a professional footballer.

    5) You seem to be forgetting how disrespectful our players have been over recent years. Remember the Ovrebo situation,

    6) also who brings guns into training grounds, smoke grenades, etc.

    7) These players are getting away with too much.
    You are forgetting too many scenarios these players keep getting involved in, its not a coincidence, they are the bad apples.

    8)This is how i can tell you dont play football yourself,

    9) The problems Cole and a few others created were on the training ground, they didnt try and follow AVBs approach. This was evident on the pitch when a few of them were still trying the narrow wing back approach of Ancelotti, wherein they overlap.

    10) However AVB at Porto discouraged this, for it was needless in that formation and made you susceptible at the back since they used marauding centre halves.

    11) Cole did not adhere to this, and its why i can see now how Alvaro Pereira was linked to us.

    12) They did not deliberately underperform as any player wants to win, the fact is they didnt try and adopt AVBs philosophy and so this led to a team playing on different wavelengths.

    13) We dont know what discussions went on with RA, however we do now know he in fact addressed the players and told them he knew they wernt pulling their weight. I am glad he now can see this issue,

    14) hopefully we can ship them out and start again like in 03/04.
    1) Give examples please.

    2) Which situation? If it's the situation whereby Drogba didn't accept Scolari's training methods and Scolari said that he had conflicts with Scolari, then yeah, Drogba wasn't very helpful in the dressing room at that time.

    3) How did they react? Where's evidence for this reaction? And here's an interview with Avram Grant himself. He confirms that the players didn't have much power in the club and they were very professional around him (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/15841079).

    4) Sure, he may not have been on his best behaviour during Scolari's tenure but maybe he's changed since then. Maybe he has behaved better since then? Hiddink, Carlo and Ray Wilkins didn't appear to have a problem with him.

    5) I don't know what exactly you're pointing to here. Can you elaborate please? But it is understandable that the players felt cheated by a very horrible performance from the referee and some of them couldn't control their anger. It happens.

    6) "If you followed Chelsea you would already know" that action had been taken against Cole by the club for that gun incident.

    7) Just because some players misbehave on occasion doesn't mean that they have player power in the club. Nor does it mean that the entire team should be playing rubbish as a result of the misbehaviour of a few players. By your logic, since Balotelli has misbehaved sometimes, this means that there is player power at Man City and Mancini is being undermined? Hell no. Mancini shows who's boss and whenever someone misbehaves, he disciplines them. Managers always have the power as long as they know how to exert it.

    And after the gun incident, Carlo confirmed that there was no player power at the club during his time there (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/foo...-mistakes.html)

    8) Very presumptious of you.

    9) How do you know exactly what AVB's approach was? Are you aware that managers can use different tactics for different games and for the squad they have available? This might have been the reason why a few of them tried "the narrow wing back approach" in some games as you claim?

    10) When did AVB tell anyone that those were his reasons for those tactics? When did AVB tell anyone that he tried to impose those exact tactics into chelsea in the training ground? How do you know these things exactly?

    11) Firstly, I need to see evidence that AVB told/instructed Cole and some players to stop the narrow wing back approach. And if Cole was not adhering to AVB's instructions, why didn't AVB drop him and give Bertrand a chance? The fact that Cole has started almost all games under AVB suggests that AVB didn't really have a problem with Cole. And just because a section of the media links you to Pereira doesn't mean anything. Unless AVB came out in the media and expressed his interest, then the link to Pereira is simply rubbish.

    12) Some of them may not have bought into his "project" but so what? If some players weren't adopting AVB's philosophy, then he should have dropped them. Please tell me the exact nature of AVB's philosophy and tell exactly how the players weren't trying to adopt his philosophy. You do realise that you can't teach an old dog new tricks, right? To try and change chelsea's football style wasn't gonna happen overnight. It would require time and patience. Thinking that the players would just immediately transform and play his system perfectly was just managerial suicide by AVB. Good managers play to the strengths of the players they have available (and impose change gradually). AVB couldn't do this well enough and it showed in chelsea's poor results.

    13) When did RA say this? Do you have a quote from him?

    14) Yes some of the players need shipping. Not because of this unproven player power that people talking about but because those players are playing badly.

    -------------------------------------------------------

    Now, Scolari may have had some trouble keeping control of some of the players during his time at chelsea. But like I've said before, if the players are not responding to a manager, then he should just give other players a chance. A few egos cannot be responsible for the entire team doing badly. The manager must accept some blame for this.

    Now apart from Scolari, no other manager has had a big problem with the likes of Terry, Cech etc. AVB may have had a few disagreements with some of the players but like I explained in one of my posts above, his man-management wasn't exactly inspiring. The players cannot be mostly to blame for their results and performances.

    When Grant, Carlo and Wilkins confirm there was no player power at the club and they had no big problems with them & there was no sign of player power during the time of Mourinho and Hiddink, can people continue to claim there is player power at the club when the actual managers themselves reject those claims?

    Do the fans know more than the managers themselves?
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    boring, boring. Lampard is King of Chelsea and that's all there is to it. Lamps for Player Manager plz
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    (Original post by Hatchet)
    1) The only two very senior players I would say might have had a vendetta against AVB are Cole and Terry. Neither in particulary great form (though Terry hasn't had a bad season) both struggling to adapt to a new way of defending and both frustrated by poor results.

    2) I already written quite a bit so I might finish my point off at another time because I still do think the players abused their power in the team to force the board into a decision but haven't quite got to that.

    3) One thing I'll quickly add though is the celebrations today after the goals, a lot of our senior lads were on the bench today but the way they celebrated after Meireles scored was something I haven't seen for a long while, it was almost as if a weight had been lifted now AVB had gone.
    I generally agree with your post and there's not much to disagree with with. However, I'll just respond to a few points

    1) Like I posted above, Terry has been supportive of AVB. Cole has started almost all of games under AVB and AVB praised Cole after the West Brom game so I don't think they had a problem.

    2) I'm not too sure about that. But it was quite clear that some of the players didn't put in as much effort as they should have at times. This could be down to their relationship with AVB. I personally think that both AVB and the players were to blame for their poor season.

    3) If that was the case, then it certainly adds to the questions over AVB's man-management skills. Were the players generally happy under him? If not, then it's clear that AVB's man-management wasn't great.

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