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Why is Islam so strict on women?

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    (Original post by 08rbut)
    I think only recently i read this: Christians have no right to wear cross at work, says Government. This is the article. If you read it, read the comments too to see the outrage.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/reli...overnment.html

    I tell you the government is filled with stupid people.
    And yet Cameron says this is a Christian country and 'we shouldn't be afraid to say so'.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-16224394

    The government is selfish, hypocritical and completely clueless.
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    (Original post by tif49)
    Not many, probably none if any these days. Thing is that the majority of Muslims, especially the leaders have become corrupted and materialistic over time. This was predicted by the Holy Prophet.

    If you want to see any true Muslim country, I recommend Turkey. That is a true representative of a true Muslim country.
    Ah, thanks for the answer. It was a genuine concern
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    (Original post by tif49)
    Not many, probably none if any these days. Thing is that the majority of Muslims, especially the leaders have become corrupted and materialistic over time. This was predicted by the Holy Prophet.

    If you want to see any true Muslim country, I recommend Turkey. That is a true representative of a true Muslim country.
    A secular country that denies it committed genocide and has a very sketchy human rights record is a true representation of Islam? That's a weird one.
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    (Original post by Algorithm69)
    A secular country that denies it committed genocide and has a very sketchy human rights record is a true representation of Islam? That's a weird one.
    Secularism is the kind of society and government that Islam promotes anyway. About 98% of the population are Muslim and so it is a Muslim country and has been for centuries.

    As for denying genocide and sketchy human rights record, well what's that got to do with whether or not it is a Muslim country? I was saying that it is the closest to a true Islamic country that we have.

    The way Turkey functions as a country is exactly as early Islamic countries functioned according to the true teachings and practice of the Holy Prophet. Denying genocide and human rights record are two things which the government are responsible for, that's in history, we're talking about the present but overall it is as close to a proper Islamic country you will get.
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    Because it is much, much easier for a woman to have sex than a man, and sex before marriage is considered a sin by Abrahamic religons. All a woman, even a plain-looking woman, needs to do is walk up to the nearest man and say "I'm really horny, let's have sex" and voila she has gotten laid and the man thinks he is the luckiest guy in the world. A man could go up to random women all day for a year suggesting sex and would get nothing but slaps, kicks to the balls, and police arresting him.
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    http://www.cracked.com/article_18911...out-islam.html debunking 5 myths.
    I think religion provides guidelines for both sexes & its reason based on history.
    I mean in some of these countries women are the majority in Uni education because the men have to provide at an earlier age, e.g. Iran.
    Wherever in history people have said women have had it worse, they forget how the man is suffering - it is not 1 sided. In the Western world there seems to be the myth of male power & women are doing worse, when men die earlier through old age, workplace, suicide, diseases, etc. Http://TheDamnedOldeMan.com/?p=1444 Is that the same in Muslim dominated countries?
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    (Original post by chickenonsteroids)
    I keep on seeing a lot of "oh these aren't true islamic countries!"

    Which ones are then?
    no true scotsman fallacy anyone?
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    (Original post by tif49)
    Firstly, try having some respect and dignity for people and their beliefs when you post, especially as it's clear you don't fully understand them.

    Secondly, rather than assuming a mocking tone, people will be much more willing to respond if you ask your questions in a genuine way, this thread isn't to mock, it's to understand Islamic perspectives on women better.

    The reason Muslim men are allowed more than one wife is due to the imbalance of the population of the country due to war, migration etc. When there are more women than men, how are those women supposed to find a man? So Islam permits women to marry other married men if they can't find a single man for themselves. Furthermore, I'm quite sure that you have to ask the first wife's permission to marry another.

    It also clearly states that unless you can treat them each equally, don't marry more than one.

    Then it also ensures that the women in society can all get married and be protected and taken care of. In Islam it is the man's duty to provide for the woman in every way. As we see in western society, there are many vulnerable women who are not taken care of and mistreated. This system ensures all women are protected and can live peacefully and be provided for.


    As for your second point. It's not Muslim men that are 'rapists', it is actually non-Muslim men who are. Why is it that rape is so high in western countries? Why do we have so many teenage pregnancies in this country? Why is there so much spread of STDs?

    The fact is most men including yourself have a difficult time controlling themselves, so while women are advised to cover up to protect themselves and men, men are told to lower their gaze in front of women in respect to them and to avoid unwanted thoughts. Now tell me, does this make them second class citizens? Or does this give them greater respect, freedom and ensures their protection?

    Furthermore, women have all other freedoms anyway. For example, in Islam, money that women earn they may keep for themselves or spend on the family. Men that earn money though are obligated to spend on the wife and kids without exception. This ensures the wife's financial security. Now tell me, is that harsh on women?


    Then you showed that Pakistan has the most porn searches. Well if you think Pakistan is a proper Muslim country then clearly you don't know anything at all. Pakistan is the most unIslamic, corrupt country probably in the world. Nowhere near representative of Islam just as Saudi or Afghanistan isn't. The majority of 'Muslims' in Pakistan are by name only.

    Then you showed how Afghanistan also has laws against women. Well again, a backwards country which is only Islamic in name. Nothing they are doing is condoned in Islam whatsoever. If you think otherwise, then go and educate yourself first on Islam, not through the biased media, but by independent research through reliable Islamic sources. Ask me where to look if you are genuinely interested.

    So let me know if you have any more genuine concerns.
    I have to admit, this is a good argument.
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    (Original post by tif49)
    Not many, probably none if any these days. Thing is that the majority of Muslims, especially the leaders have become corrupted and materialistic over time. This was predicted by the Holy Prophet.

    If you want to see any true Muslim country, I recommend Turkey. That is a true representative of a true Muslim country.
    I love Turkey, great country. It was very strange walking around Istanbul and not seeing any women anywhere though. Just an entire city of men.
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    (Original post by py0alb)
    I love Turkey, great country. It was very strange walking around Istanbul and not seeing any women anywhere though. Just an entire city of men.
    What? I went to Istanbul a few months ago, I remember seeing women there. It was actually the holiday season though, maybe you went on an ordinary day.

    Yeah it is a really nice country, Istanbul is beautiful.
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    (Original post by tif49)
    Secularism is the kind of society and government that Islam promotes anyway. About 98% of the population are Muslim and so it is a Muslim country and has been for centuries.
    You know fine well that Islam and secularism is a controversial and hotly debated topic within Islam, and each side has plenty of material to use to bolster their arguments. So enough with the assertions. Also, where did I say Turkey was not a Muslim country? If we accept your definition (which I don't agree with), sure its a Muslim country. What I find weird is how you think it is a true Muslim country and a true representative of a true Muslim country, especially given its current controversial status.

    (Original post by tif49)
    As for denying genocide and sketchy human rights record, well what's that got to do with whether or not it is a Muslim country? I was saying that it is the closest to a true Islamic country that we have.
    Again, Nowhere did I say Turkey isn't a Muslim country, I'm just confused as to why on earth it is, according to you, a true Muslim country. This true Muslim country denies genocide and currently violates human rights. It doesn't exactly make me want to live in a true Muslim country or respect Islam as a religion.

    (Original post by tif49)
    The way Turkey functions as a country is exactly as early Islamic countries functioned according to the true teachings and practice of the Holy Prophet. Denying genocide and human rights record are two things which the government are responsible for, that's in history, we're talking about the present but overall it is as close to a proper Islamic country you will get.
    Yeah, I'm sure your first sentence above will depend on a very selective and painful interpretation of history. But you could give me the countries' names if you want so I can do my own research. And really, enough with this 'true' crap. Its painfully obvious that the factions of your religion will never agree to what is true. You will bicker to the end of time and never convince each other because your holy books and texts are vague, ambiguous, and open to interpretation.

    Presently, Turkey violates human rights on quite a large scale and denies the Armenian genocide. That is the present, not history. Also, you have changed your position from Turkey being 'a true representative of a true Muslim country' to 'as close to a proper Islamic country you will get.'
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    People only think this because they don't know. When was the last time you asked a Muslim woman if she was happy? Never Im guessing. So first ask a Muslim person before you make a thread about this and cause racial tension k
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    (Original post by Algorithm69)
    You know fine well that Islam and secularism is a controversial and hotly debated topic within Islam, and each side has plenty of material to use to bolster their arguments. So enough with the assertions. Also, where did I say Turkey was not a Muslim country? If we accept your definition (which I don't agree with), sure its a Muslim country. What I find weird is how you think it is a true Muslim country and a true representative of a true Muslim country, especially given its current controversial status.
    OK fine. What Islam definitely does say for sure though is that the people decide who governs them and how they should be governed and for the rulers to rule with justice above all. So democracy is promoted but ultimately it is up to the people. Religion doesn't have to be the primary legislative authority.

    Every country, Muslim or not, has some controversial issues in its history or in the present. That's going to happen. That doesn't make it any less a true Muslim country considering that the population is all Muslim and the country is run with justice and democracy, the people are happy and live alongside Christians and Jews in harmony while having all freedoms. If that's not a true Muslim country, then what is?

    Again, Nowhere did I say Turkey isn't a Muslim country, I'm just confused as to why on earth it is, according to you, a true Muslim country. This true Muslim country denies genocide and currently violates human rights. It doesn't exactly make me want to live in a true Muslim country or respect Islam as a religion.
    Currently violates human rights?

    Denying genocide, if true, is unIslamic. But what has that got to do with how the country is actually run now? And in any case, what country would actually admit to genocide?

    Yeah, I'm sure your first sentence above will depend on a very selective and painful interpretation of history. But you could give me the countries' names if you want so I can do my own research. And really, enough with this 'true' crap. Its painfully obvious that the factions of your religion will never agree to what is true. You will bicker to the end of time and never convince each other because your holy books and texts are vague, ambiguous, and open to interpretation.
    Forget factions. You need to look at Islam from the Qur'an and the Hadith. Anyone who reads it will see that it promotes secularism, democracy and absolute justice above all. That's it, that is more than clear. The problem with some factions is that they have been corrupted and have given into worldly greed, wealth and power and therefore interpret it all in a way to suit themselves.

    Presently, Turkey violates human rights on quite a large scale and denies the Armenian genocide. That is the present, not history. Also, you have changed your position from Turkey being 'a true representative of a true Muslim country' to 'as close to a proper Islamic country you will get.'
    Please tell me about the human rights violations, I've not heard about this yet?

    It is as close to a proper Islamic country that you are likely to see in this day and age and is a true representative of a true Islamic country amongst all the others. Point out anything unIslamic about it then I'll consider my position.
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    (Original post by tif49)
    Firstly, try having some respect and dignity for people and their beliefs when you post, especially as it's clear you don't fully understand them.

    Secondly, rather than assuming a mocking tone, people will be much more willing to respond if you ask your questions in a genuine way, this thread isn't to mock, it's to understand Islamic perspectives on women better.

    The reason Muslim men are allowed more than one wife is due to the imbalance of the population of the country due to war, migration etc. When there are more women than men, how are those women supposed to find a man? So Islam permits women to marry other married men if they can't find a single man for themselves. Furthermore, I'm quite sure that you have to ask the first wife's permission to marry another.

    It also clearly states that unless you can treat them each equally, don't marry more than one.

    Then it also ensures that the women in society can all get married and be protected and taken care of. In Islam it is the man's duty to provide for the woman in every way. As we see in western society, there are many vulnerable women who are not taken care of and mistreated. This system ensures all women are protected and can live peacefully and be provided for.


    As for your second point. It's not Muslim men that are 'rapists', it is actually non-Muslim men who are. Why is it that rape is so high in western countries? Why do we have so many teenage pregnancies in this country? Why is there so much spread of STDs?

    The fact is most men including yourself have a difficult time controlling themselves, so while women are advised to cover up to protect themselves and men, men are told to lower their gaze in front of women in respect to them and to avoid unwanted thoughts. Now tell me, does this make them second class citizens? Or does this give them greater respect, freedom and ensures their protection?

    Furthermore, women have all other freedoms anyway. For example, in Islam, money that women earn they may keep for themselves or spend on the family. Men that earn money though are obligated to spend on the wife and kids without exception. This ensures the wife's financial security. Now tell me, is that harsh on women?


    Then you showed that Pakistan has the most porn searches. Well if you think Pakistan is a proper Muslim country then clearly you don't know anything at all. Pakistan is the most unIslamic, corrupt country probably in the world. Nowhere near representative of Islam just as Saudi or Afghanistan isn't. The majority of 'Muslims' in Pakistan are by name only.

    Then you showed how Afghanistan also has laws against women. Well again, a backwards country which is only Islamic in name. Nothing they are doing is condoned in Islam whatsoever. If you think otherwise, then go and educate yourself first on Islam, not through the biased media, but by independent research through reliable Islamic sources. Ask me where to look if you are genuinely interested.

    So let me know if you have any more genuine concerns.
    Exactly
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    Sorry, but Islam simply does not respect women, it takes advantage of them.
    Why should any human being cover the face they were born with? The face they see, smell, taste and express emotion with? You can tell me they do it out of choice all they want, but the mere fact they're expected to is pretty vile. I'm a man and I'm pretty sure I can control myself if I see a woman's face. You talk of men lowering the gaze to Women etc.... But that's kinda made irrelevant when she's so covered up all you see is her eyes. Truly respecting women is respecting and not-sexualising her no matter how she chooses to express herself, not covering her head to toe until she finally doesn't "arouse" you, and considering her some whore if she chooses not to do so.
    Funnily, you all seem to claim countries with near-100% Muslim populations to not be Muslim countries. Tell me then, where are these Muslim countries? It sounds to me like it's simply the case that those countries contradict your watered down westernised version of islam in which you've gained the foolish idea that the women are respected, they're not, not even here.
    Every example where Islam is a country's majority religion, it pretty much always has an appalling human rights record regarding women.
    Islam was made for men, by men. It seems to be the case that you're all claiming the majority of Muslims are "wrong" and no longer worship true Islam. Hate to break it to you, but if that's the way the vast majority act, then that dictates what Islam is and generally how its practiced. That's like saying nearly everyone chose to buy car A, but those few of us who chose Car B are clearly better drivers, we know what we're doing and Car A drivers have no reflection on driving as a whole.
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    (Original post by chickenonsteroids)
    I keep on seeing a lot of "oh these aren't true islamic countries!"

    Which ones are then?
    There aren't any, in reality. Every country in the world contains many practices that are un-Islamic. You won't find a purely Islamic state anywhere, just as you won't find a country that follows Christianity perfectly anywhere.
    A "true Islamic country" would be one which puts into practice all the laws that are found in the Qur'an, and doesn't contain any widepsread practice that is prohibited by the Qur'an.
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    (Original post by tazarooni89)
    There aren't any, in reality. Every country in the world contains many practices that are un-Islamic. You won't find a purely Islamic state anywhere, just as you won't find a country that follows Christianity perfectly anywhere.
    A "true Islamic country" would be one which puts into practice all the laws that are found in the Qur'an, and doesn't contain any widepsread practice that is prohibited by the Qur'an.
    How do you know whether to follow the hadith's or not? Plus, who says they're following the Quran perfectly if some parts are vague and open to interpretation?
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    (Original post by kingkongfingers)
    A Muslim woman can't leave the house without a male relative accompanying her.This gives men a great dominance over women, because they can choose where the woman goes, and when.
    Sorry but are you referring to Islamic law here or Saudi Arabian law?
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    (Original post by James0507)
    Sorry, but Islam simply does not respect women, it takes advantage of them.
    Why should any human being cover the face they were born with? The face they see, smell, taste and express emotion with? You can tell me they do it out of choice all they want, but the mere fact they're expected to is pretty vile. I'm a man and I'm pretty sure I can control myself if I see a woman's face. You talk of men lowering the gaze to Women etc.... But that's kinda made irrelevant when she's so covered up all you see is her eyes. Truly respecting women is respecting and not-sexualising her no matter how she chooses to express herself, not covering her head to toe until she finally doesn't "arouse" you, and considering her some whore if she chooses not to do so.
    You might be able to, but that doesn't mean every man is able to. If that were true, there would be no such thing as people who rape, sexually harrass, wolf whistle at women as they walk down the street etc.

    Funnily, you all seem to claim countries with near-100% Muslim populations to not be Muslim countries. Tell me then, where are these Muslim countries? It sounds to me like it's simply the case that those countries contradict your watered down westernised version of islam in which you've gained the foolish idea that the women are respected, they're not, not even here.
    Every example where Islam is a country's majority religion, it pretty much always has an appalling human rights record regarding women.
    There aren't any. Trying to find a fully Islamic country is like trying to find a fully Christian country. You won't be able to. Look at how closely the UK and other western countries practices Christianity, and then perhaps that'll give you some perspective on how far away Muslim countries have deviated from Islam.

    Islam was made for men, by men. It seems to be the case that you're all claiming the majority of Muslims are "wrong" and no longer worship true Islam. Hate to break it to you, but if that's the way the vast majority act, then that dictates what Islam is and generally how its practiced. That's like saying nearly everyone chose to buy car A, but those few of us who chose Car B are clearly better drivers, we know what we're doing and Car A drivers have no reflection on driving as a whole.
    Well nobody's saying that Islam, as practiced by the vast majority of Muslims in Muslim countries is wonderful. Ask pretty much any Muslim on this thread, and they'll say that they dislike the way the vast majority of Muslim countries behave for some reason or another, just as you do.

    Of course they won't approve of the way every other Muslim behaves. But what they do approve of is the way Muslims are told to behave in th Qur'an.
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    (Original post by chickenonsteroids)
    How do you know whether to follow the hadith's or not?
    You follow the Hadiths if you can be sure that what a particular Hadith says is a genuine command issued by Muhammad, if you understand the context of that command, and if it is clear that Muhammad intended for you personally to follow that command, rather than just whomever he was talking to at the time.

    Plus, who says they're following the Quran perfectly if some parts are vague and open to interpretation?
    Well, which parts of it are vague and open to interpretation when it tells people how to behave?

    The Qur'an already tells the reader how it is supposed to be interpreted anyway. Don't add more to the meanings of the words than are actually there. If you find a statement whose meaning seems unclear do you, don't try to settle on any particular meaning unless you have clarified it with some other explicit statement in the Qur'an etc.
Updated: March 27, 2012
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