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Why is Islam so strict on women?

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    (Original post by nizam.clt)
    Hello

    >>So why should we allow a system that propages the views of slavery in 2012 as islam has and still does?

    If there exists any slavery in Islam, then is being The Slave of God; not the slave of puny humans. And this is what I just want to convey and this was what Mohammad The Messenger of God achieved.

    >>And in thinking about all the above- you have forgot to mention your earlier hypocracy of pretending that mohammed trancended all ideas of slavery.

    Before Mohammad The Messenger of God, This world was lead by the views such as the following.

    "Slavery is natural; in every department of the natural universe we find the relation of ruler and subject. There are human beings who, without possessing reason, understand it. These are natural slaves." form ARISTOTLE'S POLITICS, translated by Benjamin Jowett.

    During prophet Mohammad, he proclaimed before this mankind -

    "There are three categories of people against whom I shall myself be a plaintiff on the Day of Judgment. Of these three, one is he who enslaves a free man, then sells him and eats this money." - Mohammad The Messenger of God.

    - Was this a hypocrisy ?
    - Was this a mere carry forwarding of views of thinkers like Aristotle ?

    >>thereby laying the foundation for the arab slave trade

    - When a name-sake Muslim conducts slavery it is Arab Slave Trade !
    - When a name-sake Jews does the same, there is no mentioning of religion !
    - When a name-sake Christian does the same, there is no mentioning of religion !

    Isn't this the hypocrisy that you mentioned ?

    Regards
    Nisam
    http://debatebasedonscriptures.blogspot.in
    So now your argument is "becuase the greeks used slaves before islam- moahmmed was just copying them for islam?"
    What happnmd to your the trancending moral superority of mohammed you illuded to in your initial post, and the "banishing of barbarian and pagan ways"
    Clearly that was jsut all rhetoric and propaganda - waht he really meant was "we will banish pagan practices that dont suit us, but will keep the ones that do" Are we on the same page now?

    Even when i peel away your grand rhetoric you pase above- all i can see is a system where a man copied parts of earlier civilisations and binned others , then pretended he is morally surperior. But in reality facts show he traded in slaves ,beat women and treated them like objects and commodities. You have already confirmed all that. What you dont seem to understand is that A its a wrong and B it influneces the attitudes of muslim men toward women today - hinece why in places like saudi , women are legally regarded as 2nd class citezens (so are non muslims for that matter, but thats for another thread)
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    (Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
    Hello

    All you have dont here is re-paste what you pasted earlier, less the parts about the man admonishing and hitting the women, where deemed necessarry.

    Equally repeatedly stating "Men are the protectors and maintainers of women" isnt going to settle any argument, it is islamic opinion only. The rest has also been translated as "men have been made superior to women" which is why men have the authoirty over women. That is an islamic principle - its isnt logic or fact.
    Hi

    You are so quick to elude the question !

    I would like to know whether the above ruling is allowance for men to exercise authority over their women ? Please respond to the exact question and don't try to elude.

    When a doctor takes a knife to operate the wound of a patient, an ignorant man is putting an alarm that the doctor is going to wound the patient.

    - The doctor was not responsible for the wound.
    - But when the wounded comes to the doctor, he will first apply medicine.
    - If the wound is not getting healed, he will have to take the knife, not to kill but to heal.
    - The doctor will not take knife against the one who is not wounded, because it is an offense.

    You are only able to see the knife and the false alarm


    Islam is not so strict not only on women but also on men.

    Regards
    Nisam
    http://debatebasedonscriptures.blogspot .in
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    (Original post by nizam.clt)
    Hello

    You are simply jumping, without touching the exact points
    You are simply repeating the same question over and over by simply rearranging words.

    >>now your argument is "becuase the greeks used slaves before islam- moahmmed was just copying them for islam?"

    "There are three categories of people against whom I shall myself be a plaintiff on the Day of Judgment. Of these three, one is he who enslaves a free man, then sells him and eats this money." - Mohammad The Messenger of God.

    - Was this a hypocrisy ?
    - Was this a mere carry forwarding of views of thinkers like Aristotle ?
    - Was this was just copying them for Islam?

    Regards
    Nisam
    http://debatebasedonscriptures.blogspot .in

    Im fairly sure im not 'jumping', im still on the same point i was at the beginning :hmmmm:
    That is, the hypocracy of the quranic quote you paste repeatedly, and the various other islamic quotes that exist permitting the practice of slavery (of non muslims) and show also mohammed took practice in slave trading and subjigation of female sex slaves.
    Can you answer this point without flailing around with quranic rhetoric and instead use facts? Thanks
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    (Original post by nizam.clt)
    Hi

    You are so quick to elude the question !

    I would like to know whether the above ruling is allowance for men to exercise authority over their women ? Please respond to the exact question and don't try to elude.

    When a doctor takes a knife to operate the wound of a patient, an ignorant man is putting an alarm that the doctor is going to wound the patient.

    - The doctor was not responsible for the wound.
    - But when the wounded comes to the doctor, he will first apply medicine.
    - If the wound is not getting healed, he will have to take the knife, not to kill but to heal.
    - The doctor will not take knife against the one who is not wounded, because it is an offense.

    You are only able to see the knife and the false alarm


    Islam is not so strict not only on women but also on men.

    Regards
    Nisam
    http://debatebasedonscriptures.blogspot .in
    Please note i was the one asking you the question - one so far you have waffled without offering an answer.

    thats a fine metaphor for someone that doesnt understand why a surgeon needs to cut a patient. Not really relevant here. Is islam simply about making irrelevant methaphors to appease the simple minded? Why do women need to be "healed" according to islam?

    I understand perfectly that a man and women are equal in a relationship and in the eyes of the law - these are FACTS not metaphor.

    Please clarify where islamic ideas that men are of higher status than women and thereofre should enjoy authority over them applies in real life and modern civiisation and law.
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    (Original post by nizam.clt)
    as the last option Islam permits a husband to beat his wife lightly, if it is useful.
    it is never useful

    Quran, 4:34 "and then beat her", should be replaced by "and don't ever beat her"

    as simple as that
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    (Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)


    Im fairly sure im not 'jumping', im still on the same point i was at the beginning :hmmmm:
    That is, the hypocracy of the quranic quote you paste repeatedly, and the various other islamic quotes that exist permitting the practice of slavery (of non muslims) and show also mohammed took practice in slave trading and subjigation of female sex slaves.
    Can you answer this point without flailing around with quranic rhetoric and instead use facts? Thanks
    Hello,

    Thank you for not jumping

    Now tell me, do you feel that there was a paradigm shift with the below two quotes ?

    "Slavery is natural; ..." - Aristotile.

    "There are three categories of people against whom I shall myself be a plaintiff on the Day of Judgment. Of these three, one is he who enslaves a free man, then sells him and eats this money." - Mohammad The Messenger of God.

    Please don't elude from this question. If you are not jumping, please tell me what do you understand by the above two views ?

    Now, as I said, it was the 6th century Mohammad The messenger of God who put an end to the Aristotelian views of "Slavery being a natural phenomena", by prohibiting The Enslavement of Free People.

    Please note that this prohibition was only implemented by the Muslims who followed him. On the other hand, the non-Muslims of that time were in full-swing on the practices of slavery, they did not mind what Mohammad The Messenger of God said.

    Now, there was a ground reality that one must clearly understand. When prophet Mohammad started his mission, the majority of the population were slaves. They owned slaves just like today's people own dogs, cats, cars, mobiles etc.

    - Just like we have branded cars, they had branded slaves.
    - Just like we don't mind what our cattle do, they didn't mind the conditions of slaves.
    - ...

    - Slaves were being castrated (the sexual organ of males were cut !!!).
    - Slaves were being indiscriminately killed without any reason.
    - Slaves were being mutilated for 'good' reason.
    - ...

    They wanted castrated/sterilized slaves for serving at the places and houses of the elites so that they won't have illegal sex with their family members !!!

    Anyhow, to those people, Mohammad The Messenger of God said -

    'Whoever kills a slave, we will kill him; whoever mutilates a slave, we will mutilate him and whoever sterilizes a slave, we will sterilize him'.- Mohammad The Messenger of God.

    - Was this a hypocrisy ?
    - Was this a mere carry forwarding of views of thinkers like Aristotle ?
    - Was this was just copying them for Islam?

    >>mohammed took practice in slave trading
    Please provide authentic references. To my knowledge he didn't do that.

    Now, there were two things.

    1. The significant portion of people were slaves.
    - They need integration to the main stream community.
    2. The people who denied prophet Mohammad, fought with him and they had the war culture of enslaving captives of war.

    There is an in-depth guideline on how Mohammad The Messenger of God did The Integration and you can read it at my blog. I am sorry that I cannot put everything here.

    For the second point, since his men were enslaved as part of the war, prophet Mohammad had to allow the same as a war time measure. Please note that the enslavement of war captives, was not a custom brought by Mohammad The Messenger of God. It was a centuries old practice.



    >>female sex slaves
    There were no sex with slaves in the guideline of prophet Mohammad but there were Intercourse with Right-Hand women just like a wife and husband do it. In order to Integrate the slave community, Mohammad The Messenger of God permitted to have Intercourse with Right-Hand women. Of course you will have many questions. This point is going to be discussed in a very depth, at my blog and you can subscribe to it

    - You can see there, what Mohammad The Messenger of God did.
    - You can see what The Forces of Evil did on slaves.
    - You can see what Abraham Lincoln did with slaves.
    - You can see what people like Malcolm X (who was a descendent of African slaves) said.
    - ---
    - You can see what Barack Obama said
    - ...
    - You can see who was ( not 'is') Michelle Obama.


    Regards
    Nisam
    http://debatebasedonscriptures.blogspot .in
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    (Original post by kingkongfingers)
    men and women are treated in a manner as if they are two different species.

    Actually, why are all religions MUCH more stricter on women?
    Just obsessive, closed minded individuals who think the sun shines out of their behinds. Sometimes I question, would the world be a better place if everyone followed science?
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    (Original post by mariachi)
    sounds very,very clever. How can you eradicate slavery if there is no slavery ?
    I will, I will

    thanks
    Hi

    Thank you for your understanding.

    >>sounds very,very clever. How can you eradicate slavery if there is no slavery ?

    Please understand that when prophet Mohammad started his mission, a significant portion of the people were slaves. They became slaves as part of the centuries old slavery. Prophet Mohammad did not have any hand in the centuries old practice.

    He was the sole person who said the following.

    "There are three categories of people against whom I shall myself be a plaintiff on the Day of Judgment. Of these three, one is he who enslaves a free man, then sells him and eats this money." - Mohammad The Messenger of God.

    Prophet Mohammad put an end to the free flow of slaves. But that wasn't enough to the disease.

    - What do you think about the fate of existing slaves ?
    - Simply free them ?

    >>How can you eradicate slavery if there is no slavery ?
    There were existing slaves who were a significant part of the population.


    Here comes the importance of what Mohammad The Messenger of God did and what he achieved. As I said, it is a great deal and it won't fit into a single reply. If you are patient enough, there is a debate going on between me and of my friend like you

    You can read it at http://debatebasedonscriptures.blogspot.in

    Please join the forum and make it an active forum

    Regards
    Nisam
    http://debatebasedonscriptures.blogspot .in
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    (Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
    Please note i was the one asking you the question - one so far you have waffled without offering an answer.

    thats a fine metaphor for someone that doesnt understand why a surgeon needs to cut a patient. Not really relevant here. Is islam simply about making irrelevant methaphors to appease the simple minded? Why do women need to be "healed" according to islam?

    I understand perfectly that a man and women are equal in a relationship and in the eyes of the law - these are FACTS not metaphor.

    Please clarify where islamic ideas that men are of higher status than women and thereofre should enjoy authority over them applies in real life and modern civiisation and law.
    Hello

    >>thats a fine metaphor for someone that doesnt understand why a surgeon needs to cut a patient

    Under the following circumstance only.

    -- When she acts as if she is above her husband, disobeys him, ignores him, dislikes him, and so forth.
    -- If the man asks his wife to come to his bed and she declines, the angels will keep cursing her until the morning.
    -- If a wife go outside without having husband's permission, then it amounts to an ill conduct.
    -- Since husband is the financial head of the family, a wife should not spent without the knowledge of her husband. This is an ill conduct.
    -- If a wife does not care the children then it amounts to an ill conduct.
    -- ...

    It is not to kill but to heal.

    >>Please clarify where islamic ideas that men are of higher status than women

    In Islam, a Man and a Woman is equal. Please see the below verse.

    "Whoever does righteous deeds - whether male or female - while he (or she) is a believer; then We will certainly give them a good life, and We will certainly grant them their rewards in proportion to the best of what they used to do." Quran 16:97

    >>should enjoy authority over them
    Where did Islam say "enjoy the authority" ??

    "Men are the protectors and maintainers of women," Quran 4:34

    Protectors and maintainers means Enjoyment or Discharging Responsibilities ?

    Islam is not so strict not only on women but also on men.

    Regards
    Nisam
    http://debatebasedonscriptures.blogspot .in
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    (Original post by nizam.clt)
    Hi

    Thank you for your understanding.
    Hi nizam

    my post was just a sarcastic repartee to your post which went something like "Muhammad had to keep slavery in order to eradicate slavery"

    I understood what you meant, but it did sound rather absurd

    On your debate : I am familiar with all the sorry excuses which are usually concocted in order to justify slavery and wife-beating in Islam.

    Personally, I think they are not worth a penny.

    Muslims should bite the bullet and simply say "Then was then, now is now".

    Religions don't develop in a void : in the 7th century, beating your wife, having slaves (and having sex with slave-girls) was perfectly OK.

    In our present societies it's not. Religions are supposed to supply you with guidelines for living in the present day, not in the 7th century.
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    (Original post by mariachi)
    Hi nizam

    my post was just a sarcastic repartee to your post which went something like "Muhammad had to keep slavery in order to eradicate slavery"

    I understood what you meant, but it did sound rather absurd

    On your debate : I am familiar with all the sorry excuses which are usually concocted in order to justify slavery and wife-beating in Islam.

    Personally, I think they are not worth a penny.

    Muslims should bite the bullet and simply say "Then was then, now is now".

    Religions don't develop in a void : in the 7th century, beating your wife, having slaves (and having sex with slave-girls) was perfectly OK.

    In our present societies it's not. Religions are supposed to supply you with guidelines for living in the present day, not in the 7th century.

    Hi Dear

    "Muhammad had to keep slavery in order to eradicate slavery"
    "Three persons will get their reward twice.

    1. A person who has a slave girl and he educates her properly and teaches her good manners properly (without violence) and then manumits and marries her. Such a person will get a double reward.
    - Mohammad The Messenger of God

    - Yes, he had to keep the disdained slaves to educate them.
    - Yes, he had to keep the disdained slaves to teach them good manners.
    - Yes, he had to keep the disdained slaves to manumit them.
    - Yes, he had to keep the disdained slaves to marry them.

    Dear friend,

    Who else in the history of mankind proclaimed such a great thing ?

    If there exists, then please right it down right here.

    beating your wife
    You have heard only about beating !

    "The perfect of Believers faith wise are the best of them in conduct. And the best of you are the best of you with their women" - Prophet Mohammad.

    One man asked prophet Mohammad - "O Messenger of Allah! What is the right the wife of one of us has ?''

    Prophet replied - "To feed her when you eat, buy her clothes when you buy for yourself and to refrain from striking her on the face, cursing her or staying away from her except in the house."

    "The one who looks after a widow or a poor person is like a warrior who fights for Allah's Cause, or like him who performs prayers all the night and fasts all the day." - Prophet Mohammad.

    They are body-cover, or screen) for you and you are body-cover for them. Quran 2:187

    It means - "Your wives are a resort for you and you for them.''


    There are many more ...

    Mohammad The Messenger of God put forwarded a very close relationship between a wife and a husband.

    When in such a relation, if there comes a crack in the relation between a wife and a husband, rest of the world has only one choice - Divorce.

    Islam on the other hand puts the option of a light beating as a last resort. It is not to create the disease, rather it is to heal the disease.

    Neither Mohammad The Messenger of God nor his companions and those who followed them did not beat their wives. But when a comprehensive guideline is brought, it should have mentioned all of its principles and the light-beating is there as a last option.

    A believer who truly understand the teachings and life of Mohammad The Messenger will never have to beat anyone and you are only able to see the "beating" !

    Instead of simply playing with words, I request you to put a better guideline so as to counter the guidelines of Islam and that would only be a just-full talk.

    Religions are supposed to supply you with guidelines for living in the present day
    "The prostitution of the eyes is looking;
    The prostitution of the tongue is speaking;
    The prostitution of the ears is listening;
    The prostitution of the hands is striking; and
    The prostitution of the feet is walking.
    The soul wishes and desires, and the private parts confirm or deny that." - Prophet Mohammad.

    Isn't the above relevant for 21st century ?

    "And those who accuse chaste women, and produce not four witnesses, flog them with eighty stripes, and reject their testimony forever. They indeed are the rebellious." Quran 24:2

    Isn't the above relevant for 21st century ?

    The Messenger of Allah was asked which sin is the most serious ? (He replied) That you appoint a rival to Allah (One God) when He has created you. He asked, "Then what?'' He said: (He replied) That you kill your child for fear that he may eat with you. He said, "Then what?'' He said: (He replied) That you commit adultery with your neighbor's wife. - Prophet Mohammad.

    Isn't the above relevant for 21st century ?

    Above are only a few samples from the below sample titles from what Mohammad The Messenger of God put forward before this mankind.

    - The Marriage Principles
    - The Married Life Principles
    - The Morality Principles
    - The Family Principles
    - The Family Etiquette
    - The Behavioral Etiquette
    - The Financial Principles
    - The Charity Principles
    - The Righteousness Principles
    - The Manners Principles
    - The Patience Principles
    - ...
    - ...
    - The Life Principles.
    - ...



    Please try to do the following things.

    1. Who other than Mohammad The Messenger of God, in the history of mankind proclaimed such a great thing for a Slave ?

    2. Bring a better directives than what Mohammad The Messenger of God brought.

    If you can, I will accept it, no doubt.


    Regards
    Nisam
    http://debatebasedonscriptures.blogspot.in
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    (Original post by nizam.clt)
    Hi Dear]
    nizam

    try to be much more synthetic, or almost no one will read your posts, and even less answer

    Best
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    (Original post by nizam.clt)
    Under the following circumstance only.

    -- When she acts as if she is above her husband, disobeys him, ignores him, dislikes him, and so forth.
    -- If the man asks his wife to come to his bed and she declines, the angels will keep cursing her until the morning.
    -- If a wife go outside without having husband's permission, then it amounts to an ill conduct.
    -- Since husband is the financial head of the family, a wife should not spent without the knowledge of her husband. This is an ill conduct.
    -- If a wife does not care the children then it amounts to an ill conduct.
    -- ...

    It is not to kill but to heal.

    >>Please clarify where islamic ideas that men are of higher status than women

    In Islam, a Man and a Woman is equal.
    Hey bud, I have quoted a part of your post here.

    You start out by describing several instances under which men can "punish" the women because they are deemed to have committed an ill conduct.

    However, you have mentioned NO INSTANCES AT ALL whereby women can punish men.

    You go on to say that in Islam, men and women are equal.

    Well, if they are equal, why doesn't the Quran list a bunch of instances when women may hit the men?


    Why is the hitting only uni-directional if the sides are considered equal?
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    (Original post by nizam.clt)
    Hello,

    Thank you for not jumping

    Now tell me, do you feel that there was a paradigm shift with the below two quotes ?

    "Slavery is natural; ..." - Aristotile.

    "There are three categories of people against whom I shall myself be a plaintiff on the Day of Judgment. Of these three, one is he who enslaves a free man, then sells him and eats this money." - Mohammad The Messenger of God.

    Please don't elude from this question. If you are not jumping, please tell me what do you understand by the above two views ?

    Now, as I said, it was the 6th century Mohammad The messenger of God who put an end to the Aristotelian views of "Slavery being a natural phenomena", by prohibiting The Enslavement of Free People.

    Please note that this prohibition was only implemented by the Muslims who followed him. On the other hand, the non-Muslims of that time were in full-swing on the practices of slavery, they did not mind what Mohammad The Messenger of God said.

    Now, there was a ground reality that one must clearly understand. When prophet Mohammad started his mission, the majority of the population were slaves. They owned slaves just like today's people own dogs, cats, cars, mobiles etc.

    - Just like we have branded cars, they had branded slaves.
    - Just like we don't mind what our cattle do, they didn't mind the conditions of slaves.
    - ...

    - Slaves were being castrated (the sexual organ of males were cut !!!).
    - Slaves were being indiscriminately killed without any reason.
    - Slaves were being mutilated for 'good' reason.
    - ...

    They wanted castrated/sterilized slaves for serving at the places and houses of the elites so that they won't have illegal sex with their family members !!!

    Anyhow, to those people, Mohammad The Messenger of God said -

    'Whoever kills a slave, we will kill him; whoever mutilates a slave, we will mutilate him and whoever sterilizes a slave, we will sterilize him'.- Mohammad The Messenger of God.

    - Was this a hypocrisy ?
    - Was this a mere carry forwarding of views of thinkers like Aristotle ?
    - Was this was just copying them for Islam?

    >>mohammed took practice in slave trading
    Please provide authentic references. To my knowledge he didn't do that.

    Now, there were two things.

    1. The significant portion of people were slaves.
    - They need integration to the main stream community.
    2. The people who denied prophet Mohammad, fought with him and they had the war culture of enslaving captives of war.

    There is an in-depth guideline on how Mohammad The Messenger of God did The Integration and you can read it at my blog. I am sorry that I cannot put everything here.

    For the second point, since his men were enslaved as part of the war, prophet Mohammad had to allow the same as a war time measure. Please note that the enslavement of war captives, was not a custom brought by Mohammad The Messenger of God. It was a centuries old practice.



    >>female sex slaves
    There were no sex with slaves in the guideline of prophet Mohammad but there were Intercourse with Right-Hand women just like a wife and husband do it. In order to Integrate the slave community, Mohammad The Messenger of God permitted to have Intercourse with Right-Hand women. Of course you will have many questions. This point is going to be discussed in a very depth, at my blog and you can subscribe to it

    - You can see there, what Mohammad The Messenger of God did.
    - You can see what The Forces of Evil did on slaves.
    - You can see what Abraham Lincoln did with slaves.
    - You can see what people like Malcolm X (who was a descendent of African slaves) said.
    - ---
    - You can see what Barack Obama said
    - ...
    - You can see who was ( not 'is') Michelle Obama.


    Regards
    Nisam
    http://debatebasedonscriptures.blogspot .in

    The only thing you seem to be typing is a saying by aristotle and by mohammed - how is is either relevant to the FACTS of the actual practice of slavery under islam? No good saying "men should be free of slavery, then enslaving millions of people to make money- as the arab slave trade did.
    Equally what was the pint of moahmmed saying this when he continued to trade in slaves himslef, and he and his follwers took slaves from their invaded lands?
    More pertinently , he also took various female slaves when he nvaded lands, for the purposes of having sex - ie sex slaves. As you rightly point out, it was then written in islam that you could have sex with slaves you right hand possessed, as well as your own wives.


    And i dont follow your constant references to Michelle Obama ??
    Do you not see that you are contradicting yourself - firstly saying slavery and subjigation of women for sex was a bad idea and then showing that islam promoted both?
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    (Original post by nizam.clt)
    Hello

    >>thats a fine metaphor for someone that doesnt understand why a surgeon needs to cut a patient

    Under the following circumstance only.

    -- When she acts as if she is above her husband, disobeys him, ignores him, dislikes him, and so forth.
    -- If the man asks his wife to come to his bed and she declines, the angels will keep cursing her until the morning.
    -- If a wife go outside without having husband's permission, then it amounts to an ill conduct.
    -- Since husband is the financial head of the family, a wife should not spent without the knowledge of her husband. This is an ill conduct.
    -- If a wife does not care the children then it amounts to an ill conduct.
    -- ...

    It is not to kill but to heal.

    >>Please clarify where islamic ideas that men are of higher status than women

    In Islam, a Man and a Woman is equal. Please see the below verse.

    "Whoever does righteous deeds - whether male or female - while he (or she) is a believer; then We will certainly give them a good life, and We will certainly grant them their rewards in proportion to the best of what they used to do." Quran 16:97

    >>should enjoy authority over them
    Where did Islam say "enjoy the authority" ??

    "Men are the protectors and maintainers of women," Quran 4:34

    Protectors and maintainers means Enjoyment or Discharging Responsibilities ?

    Islam is not so strict not only on women but also on men.

    Regards
    Nisam
    http://debatebasedonscriptures.blogspot .in

    So to summarise what you just said above -
    Islam charges muslim men to beat their wives (lightly)

    "Under the following circumstance only.

    -- When she acts as if she is above her husband, disobeys him, ignores him, dislikes him, and so forth.
    -- If the man asks his wife to come to his bed and she declines, the angels will keep cursing her until the morning.
    -- If a wife go outside without having husband's permission, then it amounts to an ill conduct."


    In order to "Heal " them. That is the basic islamic stance. did i miss anything?

    Hmmmmm. I wonder if there any other muslims on tsr that are willing to comment on this statement?
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    (Original post by .eXe)
    Hey bud, I have quoted a part of your post here.

    You start out by describing several instances under which men can "punish" the women because they are deemed to have committed an ill conduct.

    However, you have mentioned NO INSTANCES AT ALL whereby women can punish men.

    You go on to say that in Islam, men and women are equal.

    Well, if they are equal, why doesn't the Quran list a bunch of instances when women may hit the men?


    Why is the hitting only uni-directional if the sides are considered equal?
    Because they arnt equal. The more people we make aware of this backward barbarity the better.

    Even Muslim Scholars are debating every 2 minutes parts of Quran, many muslims have different ideas of what is 'true' and correct....hey, if us non muslims see that it promotes violence against women then surely those less educated muslims can also see it and think it is God's word?
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    (Original post by nizam.clt)
    Hello

    >>All you have done here is describe islams allowance for men to excersise authority over their women

    "Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend (to support them) from their means." Quran 4:34

    Islam puts the full financial responsibility of family, entirely on men. A woman have zero financial responsibility on her family.

    Here Islam is strict on men and soft on women.


    I would like to know whether the above ruling is allowance for men to exercise authority over their women ? Please respond to the exact question and don't try to elude.

    1. To feed her when you eat, cloth her when you buy clothes for yourself.
    2. Refrain from striking her face or cursing her.
    3. To not abandon her, except in the house.
    4. Fear Allah regarding women, for they are your assistants.
    5. You have the right on them that they do not allow any person whom you dislike to step on your mat.
    6. However, if they do that, you are allowed to discipline them lightly.
    7. They have a right on you that you provide them with their provision and clothes, in a reasonable manner.
    8. When the Wife Obeys Her Husband, Means of Annoyance Against Her are Prohibited.
    ...

    I would like to know whether the above ruling is allowance for men to exercise authority over their women ? Please respond to the exact question and don't try to elude.


    Islam is not so strict not only on women but also on men.

    Regards
    Nisam
    http://debatebasedonscriptures.blogspot .in
    You've just blatantly described how in Islam a woman is a mans property. She isnt a free person, she BELONGS to her man and he has to pay for everything. This is the most common example muslims use to 'prove' how Islam treats women well, by constantly bringing up that she has no financial responsibility.

    Yeah, I'm sure that makes up for all the other barbaric views on women. Let me think:

    They are equal to the dogs and asses.

    They are stupid, like domestic animals and posess nothing themselves

    They are mentally deficient due to hormones thus their testimony is worth half of a mans.

    'A good woman is obedient...' Yeah like a DOG

    Also the many ways a man can beat his wife yet she cant beat him.
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    (Original post by mariachi)
    nizam

    try to be much more synthetic, or almost no one will read your posts, and even less answer

    Best
    Hello

    "Three persons will get their reward twice.

    1. A person who has a slave girl and he educates her properly and teaches her good manners properly (without violence) and then manumits and marries her. Such a person will get a double reward.
    - Mohammad The Messenger of God

    Who else in the history of mankind proclaimed such a great thing ?

    Just answer the question.

    Regards
    Nisam
    http://debatebasedonscriptures.blogspot .in
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    (Original post by nizam.clt)
    Hello

    "Three persons will get their reward twice.

    1. A person who has a slave girl and he educates her properly and teaches her good manners properly (without violence) and then manumits and marries her. Such a person will get a double reward.
    - Mohammad The Messenger of God

    Who else in the history of mankind proclaimed such a great thing ?

    Just answer the question.

    Regards
    Nisam
    http://debatebasedonscriptures.blogspot .in


    oooo a 'double' reward . What could this be i wonder, double the virginal sex slaves?
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