[Texan88]

(Original post by Walter Ego)
A 1500hp car in the Yorkshire Dales would get raped by a standard Peugeot 205GTi. I raced a mate who had built a 550hp Scoob for straight-lining and he didn't know where I went on typical British B-roads. He couldn't even fart near the gas pedal mid-bend for fear of it spitting him off the road, and the suspension was so stiff that every bump (and b-roads are bumpy) saw him lose traction and risk the engine spinning beyond the redline to destruction. I had just 265bhp, but with compliant but progressively stiffening AST Sportline coilovers, 17" wheels with some give, ARB's that still allow a feel for the road and the ability to go through a bend at 130+ on WOT I annihilated him over 20 miles of challenging country road. From the lights on the Pod he'd kill me, but in the real world his car was useless.

I don't think you quite understand the difference between knowing your surroundings and being fast. It also seems like his suspension was setup completely wrong for the area and being honest a good driver in a 550hp car would completely blow past a 265hp car.

But hey what do I know. I race in the states not in the UK. Mostly on the track as well now.

[Nuffles]

I was tootling along a back-water A road to work one morning in my old Land Rover and this tool came up behind me on my back bumper in an Audi A4 with his girlfriend in the passenger seat, obviously looking for trouble. Now my Defender was nothing special, I had an Iveco 2.5 TD under the bonnet which hauled alright once you got the boost up, but was on AT tyres. The thing I did have in my favour was a 2in lift which significantly stiffened the suspension, but I think what did it was that I knew the road well. The Defender chassis is a surprisingly well balanced either way. I put my foot down and whooped his ass through the turns - he was all over the place, right over the white lines and generally barely able to keep up, even dropping behind in some places. We got to a straight after a mile or so and he blasted past me giving me the finger, which I guess made him feel better about his awful driving? If you can drive well you don't need a significant amount of power as you can carry your speed much better through the turns.

[gbduo]

150hp and a decent chassis will walk over a 600hp car anyday. Just look at Lotus 7/Lotus Elise/Lotus Exige...

Lotus or Colin Chapman philosophy FTW!

[Walter Ego]

Simplify and add lightness √

[iwantcheese5]

To handle high horsepower figures you need fat tyres and/or lots of weight over the driven wheels, these things will nearly always negatively effect cornering ability.

[Friggerpants]

(Original post by iwantcheese5)
To handle high horsepower figures you need fat tyres and/or lots of weight over the driven wheels, these things will nearly always negatively effect cornering ability.

Slick tyres and an LSD are two of the best handling modifications you could do.

Look at the R26.r, low power, yet a very good ring time due to a LSD and sticky tyres.

[Hunglikeamuuule]

(Original post by NuclearFusion)
Yup, something like that

Or like this Mini:

You would never know that it had a Yamaha R1 engine in it.

[Fuzzed_Out]

(Original post by Friggerpants)
Slick tyres and an LSD are two of the best handling modifications you could do.

Look at the R26.r, low power, yet a very good ring time due to a LSD and sticky tyres.

In my eyes slick tyres are best modification you can do and for a track car are the very first thing you should even consider doing. Granted they might require realigning suspension.

Though just a well set up car makes a world of difference.

[x-Sophie-x]

I like!

[iwantcheese5]

(Original post by Friggerpants)
Slick tyres and an LSD are two of the best handling modifications you could do.

Look at the R26.r, low power, yet a very good ring time due to a LSD and sticky tyres.

Changing the width, and as a result the offset, will change the suspension geometry which can lead to the car becoming unbalanced. Slick tyres are great though.

I agree completely that low power and a good chassis/suspension set-up is a much better combination than just silly high power.

[Fuzzed_Out]

This **** isn't suitable for work because it will make you spaf everywhere.

http://www.stanceworks.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=22294

The build isn't to my taste but the welding

[iwantcheese5]

(Original post by Fuzzed_Out)
This **** isn't suitable for work because it will make you spaf everywhere.

http://www.stanceworks.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=22294

The build isn't to my taste but the welding

That is some epic lobstering!

[DDS]

(Original post by gbduo)
150hp and a decent chassis will walk over a 600hp car anyday. Just look at Lotus 7/Lotus Elise/Lotus Exige...

Lotus or Colin Chapman philosophy FTW!

Unless its a gtr

[ManchesterUnited7_]

call me "chavy" but for my first car ( i am 17 in may ) i was thinking of getting a ford fiesta maybe somthing similar to this but without the stripe down the bonnet http://www.performance-car-guide.co....iesta-ST-6.jpg

they good as a first car and if so how much should i be willing to spend ? .. i know in the photo it is a fiesta ST but well i am sure i can buy a standard fiesta and apply some form of bodykit such as front bumper , tint windows and black alloy wheels etc

i am not a chav... honest

[AgentSushi]

(Original post by ManchesterUnited7_)
call me "chavy" but for my first car ( i am 17 in may ) i was thinking of getting a ford fiesta maybe somthing similar to this but without the stripe down the bonnet http://www.performance-car-guide.co....iesta-ST-6.jpg

they good as a first car and if so how much should i be willing to spend ? .. i know in the photo it is a fiesta ST but well i am sure i can buy a standard fiesta and apply some form of bodykit such as front bumper , tint windows and black alloy wheels etc

i am not a chav... honest

Im pretty sure that the one in the photo isn't an ST, looking at the hub caps

[ManchesterUnited7_]

(Original post by AgentSushi)
Im pretty sure that the one in the photo isn't an ST, looking at the hub caps

ahh i aint a expert with cars i just know the basics i thought it was but appears not so now with the ST

[Walter Ego]

(Original post by Texan88)



I don't think you quite understand the difference between knowing your surroundings and being fast. It also seems like his suspension was setup completely wrong for the area and being honest a good driver in a 550hp car would completely blow past a 265hp car.

But hey what do I know. I race in the states not in the UK. Mostly on the track as well now.

Oh, I understand. I've driven 500bhp monsters, and they are a nightmare. I've driven supercars (Ferrari 360 Modena, 360 Challenge Stradale, Porsche 911 RUF Twin Turbo (595bhp, 680 lb/ft), and even a few track cars from Ariel Atom, Caterham and a Formula Vauxhall single seat racer. I've driven most of the tracks in the UK, and I'm sure almost every road in the Yorkshire Dales, Moors, Lake District, Peak District, and many in Scotland, Cornwall and in between. I've organised 11 of my own sports car club track days, and attended a great many more.

On Bedford Autodrome, a mate who hires out his Lambo Murcilago (570bhp) doffs his cap to almost every Subaru on there as they fly past him in the corners. The sheer weight of his V12 monster means he cannot hold a candle to the cornering prowess of the lighter Scoob, even though both are AWD. He gains on them and could pass them easily on the straights, but only to have them pass him mid-bend yet again, which he deems dangerous, so lets them go.

The Atom is another example. Unbelievably fast on track, but so light that bumpy normal roads upset the balance constantly, and 700bhp/tonne (my mates was mod'd to 350bhp and weighed 500kg) becomes a real handful.

My own perfect UK road car would be a Litchfield Impreza Type 20, or Type 25. A perfect blend of power, grip, capability and compliance. The T25 has 415bhp and does 0-62 in 3.7s, and with longer gearing will crack 185mph, whilst still having the awesome Subaru chassis and AWD grip levels. I've driven the earlier 350bhp model, and a couple of Type 20's (slightly lower spec and power) and they are awesome too. A Jap import Spec C, especially a Type RA-R would be good too. I have no interest in racing in a straight line for a few hundred yards, but give me a thousand square miles of British countryside and I'm in my element.

[gbduo]

Nah, scoobs are boring. AWD requires no talent especially with all the electronic gadgetry to save you. Engine in the middle, rear wheel drive, perfectly balanced weight distribution, No FREDs and that is all you need to have fun.

*******s to pub talk 0-60s. It is hitting the apex of a corner just right that is more rewarding, doesn't matter how fast you hit it, as long as you hit that corner just right. You don't need mega power to do that hence why IMO, small, simple, honest, sports cars like the MX-5, S2k, Westfield, TR-6, Spitfire, etc will do most people well.

More than 300hp in a road car is a waste, you can never use it on our pot holed ridden holes which just induce bump steer.

[Walter Ego]

(Original post by gbduo)
Nah, scoobs are boring. AWD requires no talent especially with all the electronic gadgetry to save you. Engine in the middle, rear wheel drive, perfectly balanced weight distribution, No FREDs and that is all you need to have fun.

*******s to pub talk 0-60s. It is hitting the apex of a corner just right that is more rewarding, doesn't matter how fast you hit it, as long as you hit that corner just right. You don't need mega power to do that hence why IMO, small, simple, honest, sports cars like the MX-5, S2k, Westfield, TR-6, Spitfire, etc will do most people well.

More than 300hp in a road car is a waste, you can never use it on our pot holed ridden holes which just induce bump steer.

Have to disagree. Older Scoobs have very little electronic gadgetry. Newer models do have active centre diffs and yaw sensors that were previously the preserve of just Evo's (which I actually don't like). My Scoob's electronic aids were listed as 'ABS', and that was it. I ran the local owners club with between 40-120 members at different times, and I knew who had the talent to keep up with me, a few who I could not keep up with, and many who simply shouldn't have owned the car. One guy who has gone on to do some semi-pro racing was a bloody awful driver, trashing 3 gearboxes and 2 engines in under 2 years, and constantly proving himself much slower than me on many tracks, so talent is still a factor like in any car. Novice Scoob owners would bomb it towards a corner at maybe 110, and then stomp on the brakes and enter out of balance at 60-80 and hoping the AWD rescues them, but a good one approaches at 130-140, lifts as he adjusts attitude for the corner and drops one or two cogs and lets engine braking shed speed, teasing gas back on just before the apex and then hits WOT to slingshot out at maybe 110 and rising fast, using the AWD to control slight drift. If you brake, you just made a mistake !

I have driven MX5's and find them floaty above 100, and I like being over 100. Had an S2000 on a 24hr test and didn't like the high revving VTEC, but do fancy a Westfield/Caterham at some point. However, The SDR V-Storm appeals to me much more, being as I can't afford an Atom.

I don't criticise your preference of car, nor your knowledge, experience and ability, so please lay off the aggressive insults !

[gbduo]

Whoa sorry, wasn't being aggressive! I think the censor thing makes it sound like I was! My bad if it came across that way but I was merely saying that it doesn't matter how fast you can get to 60 or how fast you can corner, it is the feeling of getting a corner right that is the best, with the car in balance (as you say) from entry, mid to exit and set up for the next. Now that is good driving and if you have a car that you can do that with, that is far more rewarding than being able to go into the pub and say I have 450bhp and 0-60 in sub 4s. Thats great, but rather pointless if you are **** driver as you have so rightly pointed out.

We agree!!

Ducati first for me, then a Westie...with around 200bhp should be enough to get you into enough trouble! I think you learn a lot about weight distribution and feel on a bike so going to get a bike first before moving from a slow sports car to something more involved.

Sorry once again for my rather tactless post, I never meant to insult you!

Graham