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Richard Dawkins Tears Muslim Politician A New One

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    (Original post by Bishy786)
    Wait. Answer this question: How do you know that YOU exist and this life is not just someone's dream or something like that?
    My journal tells me so...
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    (Original post by Iqbal007)
    She's intelligent, however the video brings out the fact she's Muslim,trying highlight faith here which is not the issue,which many youtube users are seeing from the comments.
    Pakistan isn't a Islamic country, they don't follow the way things should be run nor the Islamic laws/rulings. They are a Muslim majority country at most.

    The reason it was split as such because Muslim's believed they would not get an input into the government and be treated differently, which can be seen in India today with it's Muslim population, many do get marginalised by others due to faith. Then you have the issues of violence between HIndu's and Muslims in India in the past which has caused many innocent lives to be lost. With Bangladesh, it's cos they are from the same ethnic group, Bengalis......thats why they had so much in common, just because they had so much in common does not mean they should be together. Bangladesh partition came after 30 years after the original partition and had different goals to the West Bengal Bengali's of India.
    Completly illogical arguemnt -as we know, there is far more sectarian violencw in paksitan than india going on, despite only having a fraction of the population of india, and that pakistan actually exports terrorism too.

    Pakistans muslims are about as poor as indias muslims - i doubt this has anything to do with marginalisation if the same pattern is repeated in a muslim majority country.

    The fact that both countires are 60 odd years old as independants and yet india
    is lightyears ahead of its islamic republic neighbour speaks volumes.

    And as regards the violence that plagued partition, need you be reminded not to ignore that the most murders occurred 30 years after partition, when pakistan started executing a million or so fellow muslim bengali countrymen of the Politician in this interview - and needed secular india to step in to prevent genocide, nothing to do with West bengal having 'different goals'.

    That all proves that religous segregation based on the demands of muslim politicians was a backward initiative.
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    (Original post by Bishy786)
    You stated that you are slave to no one.

    Yet it's strange that when death comes to take your life, you do not resist and instead follow death obediently just like a slave would follow his master.

    EDIT: Are those neggers actually scared of death?
    They're more just mildly irritated by your teenage philosophy. Teenagers are annoying, particularly when they try to talk about anything sounding vaguely philosophical.
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    (Original post by S-man10)
    My journal tells me so...
    ....so I believe it to be true? *wonderful logic".
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    (Original post by Bishy786)
    ....so I believe it to be true? *wonderful logic".
    Logic isn't different than using any other *holy book* don't you think?
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    (Original post by Huskaris)
    I am an atheist through and through and I used to love people like Dawkins flying the atheist flag. Then I thought and I realised the hypocrisy of it all. People like Dawkins don't like religion being shoved down people's throats when in reality all he is doing is shoving his lack of religion down people's throats. The concept of trying to remove them from their ignorance is exactly the same as the religious "saving them from their sins" argument.

    People should be allowed their faiths or lack of it and people need to shut the **** up about it.
    Best comment of the day.

    I used to eagerly watch him debate really. Now I just find him pompous and really narrow minded. He starts to be really abusive to religious folk especially the Muslims, specifically on sensitive issues like the Shariah, which I think he has no clue how it really works.
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    :lolwut: I'm an atheist and a fan of Dawkins but no-one could assert that he 'tore her a new one'. She made her points, he made his. His may have been slightly more valid and based on evidence, but, regardless, he hardly ripped her argument to shreds.
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    (Original post by Bishy786)
    The OP claimed he was a slave to no one. yet, there are things that he is enslaved to.
    :lol: Only in the context that every human being in the planet is a slave to a huge number of things.
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    (Original post by Huskaris)
    I am an atheist through and through and I used to love people like Dawkins flying the atheist flag. Then I thought and I realised the hypocrisy of it all. People like Dawkins don't like religion being shoved down people's throats when in reality all he is doing is shoving his lack of religion down people's throats. The concept of trying to remove them from their ignorance is exactly the same as the religious "saving them from their sins" argument.

    People should be allowed their faiths or lack of it and people need to shut the **** up about it.
    He's not shoving anything down anybody's throats though, people don't have to read his book or engage him in debates or watch him on TV if they don't want to. He's trying to remove them from their ignorance, but only if they let him try.
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    (Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
    Completly illogical arguemnt -as we know, there is far more sectarian violencw in paksitan than india going on, despite only having a fraction of the population of india, and that pakistan actually exports terrorism too.

    Pakistans muslims are about as poor as indias muslims - i doubt this has anything to do with marginalisation if the same pattern is repeated in a muslim majority country.

    The fact that both countires are 60 odd years old as independants and yet india
    is lightyears ahead of its islamic republic neighbour speaks volumes.

    And as regards the violence that plagued partition, need you be reminded not to ignore that the most murders occurred 30 years after partition, when pakistan started executing a million or so fellow muslim bengali countrymen of the Politician in this interview - and needed secular india to step in to prevent genocide, nothing to do with West bengal having 'different goals'.

    That all proves that religous segregation based on the demands of muslim politicians was a backward initiative.
    The sectarian violence is happening at present, but before during the beginning it was largely in India.

    The marginalisation did occur, not among the poor, mainly across the middle class Muslims, etc.

    How does it speak volume, there not exactly far ahead, both countries still suffer heavily due to poverty.......I would rather see it as stalemate at the current stage. Both countries are making technological advancement though most is in military.

    I know the history........ you should also know that the millions weren't Muslims, they specifically targeted the Hindu's. So India intervened as it recognises itself as a nation mainly of Hindu's and also to protect human rights to an extent. One of the things they were hoping for was that East Bengal to join India as a province.

    Also you said "He pointed out in the case of her people(bangladeshis) had more in common with their neighbours in Bengali india", and you discussed how we should have joined India, yet their different goals is to with the political future of the area and not the genocide thing.

    "That all proves that religous segregation based on the demands of muslim politicians was a backward initiative. " So this means, on the basis of one example, it all becomes backward:rolleyes:..........the people wanted to have laws and a land recognised as Muslim, nothing wrong with that.....plus they weren't other faiths out.
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    (Original post by Iqbal007)
    The sectarian violence is happening at present, but before during the beginning it was largely in India.

    The marginalisation did occur, not among the poor, mainly across the middle class Muslims, etc.

    How does it speak volume, there not exactly far ahead, both countries still suffer heavily due to poverty.......I would rather see it as stalemate at the current stage. Both countries are making technological advancement though most is in military.

    I know the history........ you should also know that the millions weren't Muslims, they specifically targeted the Hindu's. So India intervened as it recognises itself as a nation mainly of Hindu's and also to protect human rights to an extent. One of the things they were hoping for was that East Bengal to join India as a province.

    Also you said "He pointed out in the case of her people(bangladeshis) had more in common with their neighbours in Bengali india", and you discussed how we should have joined India, yet their different goals is to with the political future of the area and not the genocide thing.

    "That all proves that religous segregation based on the demands of muslim politicians was a backward initiative. " So this means, on the basis of one example, it all becomes backward:rolleyes:..........the people wanted to have laws and a land recognised as Muslim, nothing wrong with that.....plus they weren't other faiths out.
    I dont think you have a clue about this subject and so are talkin out of your backside about it. The vast majority of victims of the paksitani army in bangladesh were actually muslims. many were students and intellectuals, who were unarmed and protesting, shot dead by paksitani armed forces. millions more bangladeshi refugees flooded into india as a result and india was forced to do somthing simply as a reaction to this alone, but in fact it was the bangladeshis that appealed to india, as well as pretty much anyone else, to help them. The other reason was paksitan on the westernside launched an attempted pre-emptive invasion of indian kashmir, which kicked things off and india subsequently bombed paksitans airforce into the stone age.

    Yes its true pakistani soldiers also got orders to target non muslim household which included hindu buddhist and christians bengalis much like the naziis soldeirs did during Krystalnacht. The whol event has been described as an attempt at one of the largest geneocides of the 20th century, after nazii germany and the turkish gencode of armenians. but then that is part and parcel of islamic military history is it not.

    And the vast majority of indias muslims peoples are 'peasant' class for want of a better word. Their middle and upper classes are largely non muslim. There is little difference to poor muslims in india and in pakistan, afganistan etc. However india as a nation in terms of gdp, technology and military capabilty has left pakistan behind long ago. A pretty conclusive result to the islamic republic versus secular nation state experiment.
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    (Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
    I dont think you have a clue about this subject and so are talkin out of your backside about it. The vast majority of victims of the paksitani army in bangladesh were actually muslims. many were students and intellectuals, who were unarmed and protesting, shot dead by paksitani armed forces. millions more bangladeshi refugees flooded into india as a result and india was forced to do somthing simply as a reaction to this alone, but in fact it was the bangladeshis that appealed to india, as well as pretty much anyone else, to help them. The other reason was paksitan on the westernside launched an attempted pre-emptive invasion of indian kashmir, which kicked things off and india subsequently bombed paksitans airforce into the stone age.

    Yes its true pakistani soldiers also got orders to target non muslim household which included hindu buddhist and christians bengalis much like the naziis soldeirs did during Krystalnacht. The whol event has been described as an attempt at one of the largest geneocides of the 20th century, after nazii germany and the turkish gencode of armenians. but then that is part and parcel of islamic military history is it not.

    And the vast majority of indias muslims peoples are 'peasant' class for want of a better word. Their middle and upper classes are largely non muslim. There is little difference to poor muslims in india and in pakistan, afganistan etc. However india as a nation in terms of gdp, technology and military capabilty has left pakistan behind long ago. A pretty conclusive result to the islamic republic versus secular nation state experiment.
    Firstly I would like to point out that I think I know the history of my own ethnic group, which I have studied thoroughly. The original order was that they were kill the hindu people, that was the original clear order,but they also attacked Muslims due to fear they might attack.........thats why the majority of those who fled were hindu's. India was harbouring the leaders of rebellion movement within India, India did so to gain the Bengali people's support in the hopes of joining them. India began to support the issue, when it realised that Pakistan was getting the upperhand and was supported by the Soviets due to the 'cold war' as the US began to be more involved. On top of that the pre-emtpive strike was because of the militarily support from the Indian army,so they got involved before it kicking off. The current Pakistani airforce has the latest f-16's so i dont no what your on about, their not stone age, their more than capable of handling India's airforce of mig29s and mirages....eventhough they have less jets, it makes up on capabilities.

    I would say it's genocide, however you cannot say its part of Islamic military history, its Pakistan's military history, in no way does their actions represent Islam or the people. As I recall after the genocides came to light, etc the people of Pakistan came out in anger of the disunity of the Muslims in their nations leading to their military leaders fall.

    Yes, but there are reasons why some have been unable to get out of poverty and not enjoy the nations prosperity, their is a lot of widespread marginalisation of the Muslim community and lower caste communities as well. The difference is that in Pakistan, Afghanistan they would face less discrimination based on their faith. No such thing as Islamic Republic in Islam :rolleyes:.......they are a Muslim nation not Islamic. Nor is India secular at all, they also regard their nation as hindustan.
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    (Original post by Iqbal007)
    Firstly I would like to point out that I think I know the history of my own ethnic group, which I have studied thoroughly. The original order was that they were kill the hindu people, that was the original clear order,but they also attacked Muslims due to fear they might attack.........thats why the majority of those who fled were hindu's. India was harbouring the leaders of rebellion movement within India, India did so to gain the Bengali people's support in the hopes of joining them. India began to support the issue, when it realised that Pakistan was getting the upperhand and was supported by the Soviets due to the 'cold war' as the US began to be more involved. On top of that the pre-emtpive strike was because of the militarily support from the Indian army,so they got involved before it kicking off. The current Pakistani airforce has the latest f-16's so i dont no what your on about, their not stone age, their more than capable of handling India's airforce of mig29s and mirages....eventhough they have less jets, it makes up on capabilities.

    I would say it's genocide, however you cannot say its part of Islamic military history, its Pakistan's military history, in no way does their actions represent Islam or the people. As I recall after the genocides came to light, etc the people of Pakistan came out in anger of the disunity of the Muslims in their nations leading to their military leaders fall.

    Yes, but there are reasons why some have been unable to get out of poverty and not enjoy the nations prosperity, their is a lot of widespread marginalisation of the Muslim community and lower caste communities as well. The difference is that in Pakistan, Afghanistan they would face less discrimination based on their faith. No such thing as Islamic Republic in Islam :rolleyes:.......they are a Muslim nation not Islamic. Nor is India secular at all, they also regard their nation as hindustan.
    Clearly you know very little, despite your ethinicity (which has very little to do with knowledge as we often see on tsr)

    PLease do read up on operation searchlight, where it is described in details pakistani armies systematic exectution of bangladeshi MUSLIM politicians, intellectuals and military commanders. As well as tens of thousand of muslim students, women children etc. This was the ultimate political aim of Pakistan, to eliminate any intellectual or political threat to their control over bangaldesh, the execution of non muslim bengalis decredd by paksitani generals in the name of islam, was simply a typically islamic side-objective, which has been applied many times in the world in islamic military history - so yes i think pakistan actions very much are representative of islam.

    India were hardly going to sit back a let- A their enemy islamic nutcase neighbour commit full on genocide of bengalis and deal witht he refugee fallout intot their own lands (estimates were up to 10 million displaced as a result of paksitani armed invasion into bangladesh) So clealry they would support the bengalis and made no secret of that fact. Russia and US had little active invlovment in this confilct- the indians wiped out most of paksitans armed resistance inside 2 weeks by themselves and paksitan committed the largest military surrender since nazi germany - some 100,000 soldiers plus hardware. After india had kicked out the pakistanis, their army had full control in bangladesh, if they wanted to grab their land, they were in the perfect position to do so, and had an excuse that no other countiry could deny. but they gave it to the bengalis to be an independant nations, for which they were very grateful.

    The pakistani people gave their leaders a hard time becuase they had been humilated by their neighbours, not becuase they were shooting bengalis. And paksitan tried to lie about the actual numbers of benglais they did end up killing.


    Im sorry f-16s? - latest ? You mean the 1970s fighter that is being de-commissioned completly by the US air force in about 9 years time? Are you high or something?
    I think youll find indians stock fighter is the Sukhoi -30, which is only 10 years old or so, and is soon to be accompannied by their first stealth capable fighter, the Sukhoi HAL which is expected to rival the f22 and 35.

    And the regualr frquency of poor muslims in india, afganistan and paksitan, is i doubt of little coincidence - but it does disprove your theory that muslims are marginalised in india- unless you are claiming muslims are marginalised in muslim countres too.
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    (Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
    Clearly you know very little, despite your ethinicity (which has very little to do with knowledge as we often see on tsr)

    PLease do read up on operation searchlight, where it is described in details pakistani armies systematic exectution of bangladeshi MUSLIM politicians, intellectuals and military commanders. As well as tens of thousand of muslim students, women children etc. This was the ultimate political aim of Pakistan, to eliminate any intellectual or political threat to their control over bangaldesh, the execution of non muslim bengalis decredd by paksitani generals in the name of islam, was simply a typically islamic side-objective, which has been applied many times in the world in islamic military history - so yes i think pakistan actions very much are representative of islam.

    India were hardly going to sit back a let- A their enemy islamic nutcase neighbour commit full on genocide of bengalis and deal witht he refugee fallout intot their own lands (estimates were up to 10 million displaced as a result of paksitani armed invasion into bangladesh) So clealry they would support the bengalis and made no secret of that fact. Russia and US had little active invlovment in this confilct- the indians wiped out most of paksitans armed resistance inside 2 weeks by themselves and paksitan committed the largest military surrender since nazi germany - some 100,000 soldiers plus hardware. After india had kicked out the pakistanis, their army had full control in bangladesh, if they wanted to grab their land, they were in the perfect position to do so, and had an excuse that no other countiry could deny. but they gave it to the bengalis to be an independant nations, for which they were very grateful.

    The pakistani people gave their leaders a hard time becuase they had been humilated by their neighbours, not becuase they were shooting bengalis. And paksitan tried to lie about the actual numbers of benglais they did end up killing.


    Im sorry f-16s? - latest ? You mean the 1970s fighter that is being de-commissioned completly by the US air force in about 9 years time? Are you high or something?
    I think youll find indians stock fighter is the Sukhoi -30, which is only 10 years old or so, and is soon to be accompannied by their first stealth capable fighter, the Sukhoi HAL which is expected to rival the f22 and 35.

    And the regualr frquency of poor muslims in india, afganistan and paksitan, is i doubt of little coincidence - but it does disprove your theory that muslims are marginalised in india- unless you are claiming muslims are marginalised in muslim countres too.
    How would u no...............my ethnic background, because of it has led me to research my background up and understand it.

    I know what operation searchlight, it wasn't systemic execution in general, it was to do with the elections when the main Bengali party gained the majority and was to take power however at the time the politicians on the other side didn't want to cede power, so decided to crackdown on the Bengali party. Resulting in rebellion, it was to prevent Bengali's from running the nation.
    You haven't provided proof at all, your just saying it without any Islamic basis, they attacked non-Muslims because they thought it was ok, despite it being against their own faith and facing backlash from the Muslim world.

    Again not an 'Islamic' neighbour at all, as just shown by their anti-Islamic ways............India and Pakistan have always had issues since their paritition, both sides would do anything to gain the upperhand. The Soviets not Russia because it didnt exist, and the US supported unofficial, look up the records and you'll the confrontations between Soviet subs and a US carrier fleet...they did so out of their interest to not show official support, but were their providing weaponary, etc. Another thing is that you put this emphasis of they won all of a sudden, but you haven't factored in the fact that their army was in conflict for the past few months and their nearest support was hundreds of miles away...with such conditions they would surrender. That would have led to a further escalation of war, India wanted the full spport of the people to join India, to go in and annex the land would contravene International law.

    It's just not loss however it's also the loss of civilians and the un-Islamic actions of killing their fellow countrymen. How did they lie, the number of dead are disputed in Pakistan, nor is there a official death toll, it's hard to estimate as the different estimates vary so much.

    Yes, specifically F-16C/D Block 50/52 Plus, which are the current production version of the f-16's for PAF, so clearly your high, these jets are brand new and are the latest mod with the latest tech.
    Sukhoi would still struggle in comparison due to his size, allowing it to be detectable nor is it as manuevarable as the f-16...sukhoi is a long range interceptor based on the Su-27 trainer, two seats and all, wheras the f-16 is a multi-role jet with advanced avanoics, and overall would have an advantage.

    In general, these countries are all poor, however Muslims are still marginalised in comparison when you look at it properly http://www.cfr.org/india/indias-musl...tion/p13659#p2
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    (Original post by Iqbal007)
    How would u no...............my ethnic background, because of it has led me to research my background up and understand it.

    I know what operation searchlight, it wasn't systemic execution in general, it was to do with the elections when the main Bengali party gained the majority and was to take power however at the time the politicians on the other side didn't want to cede power, so decided to crackdown on the Bengali party. Resulting in rebellion, it was to prevent Bengali's from running the nation.
    You haven't provided proof at all, your just saying it without any Islamic basis, they attacked non-Muslims because they thought it was ok, despite it being against their own faith and facing backlash from the Muslim world.

    Again not an 'Islamic' neighbour at all, as just shown by their anti-Islamic ways............India and Pakistan have always had issues since their paritition, both sides would do anything to gain the upperhand. The Soviets not Russia because it didnt exist, and the US supported unofficial, look up the records and you'll the confrontations between Soviet subs and a US carrier fleet...they did so out of their interest to not show official support, but were their providing weaponary, etc. Another thing is that you put this emphasis of they won all of a sudden, but you haven't factored in the fact that their army was in conflict for the past few months and their nearest support was hundreds of miles away...with such conditions they would surrender. That would have led to a further escalation of war, India wanted the full spport of the people to join India, to go in and annex the land would contravene International law.

    It's just not loss however it's also the loss of civilians and the un-Islamic actions of killing their fellow countrymen. How did they lie, the number of dead are disputed in Pakistan, nor is there a official death toll, it's hard to estimate as the different estimates vary so much.

    Yes, specifically F-16C/D Block 50/52 Plus, which are the current production version of the f-16's for PAF, so clearly your high, these jets are brand new and are the latest mod with the latest tech.
    Sukhoi would still struggle in comparison due to his size, allowing it to be detectable nor is it as manuevarable as the f-16...sukhoi is a long range interceptor based on the Su-27 trainer, two seats and all, wheras the f-16 is a multi-role jet with advanced avanoics, and overall would have an advantage.

    In general, these countries are all poor, however Muslims are still marginalised in comparison when you look at it properly http://www.cfr.org/india/indias-musl...tion/p13659#p2

    again clealry your ethnic background (im assuming to be paksitani) may have led to your incredible ignorance on these subjects. Or it might be simplistic islamic education / dogma. i dont really know. But something is the case for sure, given the fallacious responses so far.
    Operaton searchlight was a kill -mission to capture political offices and univeristies and eradicate all oppositon in the most brutal form possible - the pakistani leader Yahya Khan declaring : "Kill 3 million of them and the rest will eat out of your hand." Whatever indias issues with pakistan, there is no doubt from any independant observers that their intervention halted what could have been the largest genocide of modern times. your ignorant theory that non muslims were the only target for pakistan neither exonerates their depravity nor is it accurate, given by far the most victims were muslims. pakistan had no problem with mass killings muslims, as neither iraq or iran did in their war, muslims have no problem killing anyone if it serves their purpose, that is clear throughout history as anything else, so your empty statement that paksitanis revolted against the killings becuase of 'islam' is false-they did not. They only took to the streets in the light of the humiliation of having their ass kicked in the war.

    And it was very much in keeping with islamic military history given there are various examples of such attempted mass-exterminations througout which have been praised in the name of islam- how do you think islam conquered afganistan, pakistan and india in the first place? you only have to do a little independant reading to know that.



    And your rather embarrassing flailing on the topic of aircraft is even more painful to watch - the f16 is the bottom rung of the ladder in us fighters due to it being a 40 odd year old design and NO LONGER BEING PURCHASED BY THE US AIRFORCE. pakistan have just been using old cold war handme downs as a hangover form US involvemnt in the afgans/ussr war. The f22, f35, evn the ancient f A18 is superior.
    The Sukhoi Su-30MKI is so many stages of advancement ahead of the f-16, id query how old you actually are and whether you are out of primary school.

    British Eurofighter fighter pilots that under took training duels and gave the admission 'of the Su-30MKI's superior manoeuvring in the air'
    During the exercise, the RAF Air Chief Marshal Glenn Torpy was given permission by the IAF to fly the MKI. The RAF's Air Vice Marshal Christopher Harper praised the MKI's dogfight ability, calling it "absolutely masterful and unbeatable".

    and of course famously in 2004 India sent Su-30MKs, an earlier variant of the Su-30MKI, to take part in war games with the United States Air Force (USAF) . The results have been widely publicized, with the Indians winning "90% of the mock combat missions"

    Anything else youd like to be corrected on?
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    Richard Dawkins is right here, religion created the great evil of partition, whereby prior to the facsists communal hate spreading people of all faiths lived together peacefully, yes there were incidents but vast majority of people just got along, Punjab and Bengal states were fine before the dark times of fascists rose to spread hate

    This is what Allah Baksh said the 1st Sind premeier, before he was shot dead by muslim league party hitmen in 1943:
    http://www.sasnet.lu.se/news-sources...-shamsul-islam

    Allah Baksh in his address defended greatly the composite Indian culture, ”When they talk of Muslim culture they forget the composite culture which the impact of Hindus and Muslims has been shaping for the last 1000 years or more and in which is born a type of culture and civilisation in India in the production of which Muslims have been proud and active partners. It can not now merely by creating artificial States be withdrawn to segregated areas. To art and literature, architecture and music, history and philosophy and to the administrative system of India, the Mussalmans have been contributing for a thousand years, their share of coordinated, composite and syncretic culture which occupies a distinctly distinguished place in the types of civilisations which hold a prominent place in the world. It would be a disastrous loss to civilisation if it was proposed to withdraw all this to two corners of India and leave nothing behind the ruins and debris of this contribution. Such a proposal can only emanate from defeatist mentality. No, gentleman, the whole of India is our motherland and in every possible walk of life we are co-sharers with other inhabitants of the country as brothers in the same cause, viz., the freedom of the country, and no false or defeatist sentiment can possibly persuade us to give up our proud position of being the equal sons of this great country.”

    Allah Baksh, while calling upon to guard against communalism, declared that the goal of the anti-communal movement must be, ”to build up a vigorous, healthy, progressive and honoured India enjoying its well-deserved freedom.” These prophetic words of Allah Baksh hold key to the salvation of India even today.
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    (Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
    again clealry your ethnic background (im assuming to be paksitani) may have led to your incredible ignorance on these subjects. Or it might be simplistic islamic education / dogma. i dont really know. But something is the case for sure, given the fallacious responses so far.
    Operaton searchlight was a kill -mission to capture political offices and univeristies and eradicate all oppositon in the most brutal form possible - the pakistani leader Yahya Khan declaring : "Kill 3 million of them and the rest will eat out of your hand." Whatever indias issues with pakistan, there is no doubt from any independant observers that their intervention halted what could have been the largest genocide of modern times. your ignorant theory that non muslims were the only target for pakistan neither exonerates their depravity nor is it accurate, given by far the most victims were muslims. pakistan had no problem with mass killings muslims, as neither iraq or iran did in their war, muslims have no problem killing anyone if it serves their purpose, that is clear theoughout history as anything else, so your empty statement that paksitanis revolted against the killings becuase of 'islam' is false-they did not. They only took to the streets in the light of the humiliation of having their ass kicked in the war.

    And it was very much in keeping with islamic military history given there are various examples of such attempted mass-exterminations througout which have been praised in the name of islam- how do you think islam conquered afganistan, pakistan and india in the first place? you only have to do a little independant reading to know that.



    And your rather embarrassing flailing on the topic of aircraft is veen more painful to watch - the f16 is the bottom rung of the ladder in us fighters due to it being a 40 odd year old design and NO LONGER BEING PURCHASED BY THE US AIRFORCE. pakistan have just been using old cold war handme downs as a hangover form US involvemnt in the afgans/ussr war. The f22, f35, evn the ancient f A18 is superior.
    The Sukhoi Su-30MKI is so many stages of advancement ahead of the f-16, id query how old you actually are and whether you are out of primary school.

    British Eurofighter fighter pilots that under took training duels and gave the admission 'of the Su-30MKI's superior manoeuvring in the air'
    During the exercise, the RAF Air Chief Marshal Glenn Torpy was given permission by the IAF to fly the MKI. The RAF's Air Vice Marshal Christopher Harper praised the MKI's dogfight ability, calling it "absolutely masterful and unbeatable".

    and of course famously in 2004 India sent Su-30MKs, an earlier variant of the Su-30MKI, to take part in war games with the United States Air Force (USAF) . The results have been widely publicized, with the Indians winning "90% of the mock combat missions"

    Anything else youd like to be corrected on?



    e suk was India sent Su-30MKs, an earlier variant of the Su-30MKI, to take part in war games with the United States Air Force (USAF) during Cope-India 04 in 2004. The results have been widely publicized, with the Indians winning "90% of the mock combat missions" against the USAF's F-15C
    Hey, the guys Bengali I think checking his profile, he shouldn't attack him like that, he probably knows quite a bit about his history considering his side was conflicted a lot. Nor should you blame the people, that Khan definitely deserved the death penalty.
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    (Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
    I dont think you have a clue about this subject and so are talkin out of your backside about it. The vast majority of victims of the paksitani army in bangladesh were actually muslims. many were students and intellectuals, who were unarmed and protesting, shot dead by paksitani armed forces. millions more bangladeshi refugees flooded into india as a result and india was forced to do somthing simply as a reaction to this alone, but in fact it was the bangladeshis that appealed to india, as well as pretty much anyone else, to help them. The other reason was paksitan on the westernside launched an attempted pre-emptive invasion of indian kashmir, which kicked things off and india subsequently bombed paksitans airforce into the stone age.

    Yes its true pakistani soldiers also got orders to target non muslim household which included hindu buddhist and christians bengalis much like the naziis soldeirs did during Krystalnacht. The whol event has been described as an attempt at one of the largest geneocides of the 20th century, after nazii germany and the turkish gencode of armenians. but then that is part and parcel of islamic military history is it not.

    And the vast majority of indias muslims peoples are 'peasant' class for want of a better word. Their middle and upper classes are largely non muslim. There is little difference to poor muslims in india and in pakistan, afganistan etc. However india as a nation in terms of gdp, technology and military capabilty has left pakistan behind long ago. A pretty conclusive result to the islamic republic versus secular nation state experiment.
    Oh yes Muslims are such horrible people. Their military history is full of cruelties comparable to the Nazis :O Lets ignore the fact that without them Europeans would still be living in mudhuts, and getting raped by the ruling classes (literally). Yes, we have a bloody history, but it is not nearly as bad as European history. That much is evident. India has a much higher population, and is far, far older than Pakistan. You can't compare those too. Compare Iran and India, or something along those lines. It would make a lot more sense in this respect. And even then, you can't really base the development of countries on religion. There are too many economical and social factors involved.
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    (Original post by ShredMaster)
    Oh yes Muslims are such horrible people. Their military history is full of cruelties comparable to the Nazis :O Lets ignore the fact that without them Europeans would still be living in mudhuts, and getting raped by the ruling classes (literally). Yes, we have a bloody history, but it is not nearly as bad as European history. That much is evident. India has a much higher population, and is far, far older than Pakistan. You can't compare those too. Compare Iran and India, or something along those lines. It would make a lot more sense in this respect. And even then, you can't really base the development of countries on religion. There are too many economical and social factors involved.
    Some great points.

    Been following this argument between a couple of freaks who clearly think googling something and then passing it off as an intelligent statement gives them some kudos....LOL. Both are reciting from history books produced by western onlookers during this horrible time or by countrymen with clearly an axe to grind.
    Yes there are muslims who are evil and have done wicked things, but so have others that weren't muslim and still are doing that aren't muslim to muslims, for example Israel/US/UK.
    Also comparing Pakistan to India is unfair due to the way the country was partitioned in the first place. The main reason muslims in India are lower down the pecking order is because they were generally the ones that stayed in India during partition because they had very little or nothing to leave with.

    The spread of Islam is very similar to the spread of other religions/civilisations, nothing new, but the fact that its lasted this long and is still the fastest/one of the fastest growing religions in the world must be for a reason.
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    (Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
    Completly illogical arguemnt -as we know, there is far more sectarian violencw in paksitan than india going on, despite only having a fraction of the population of india, and that pakistan actually exports terrorism too.

    Pakistans muslims are about as poor as indias muslims - i doubt this has anything to do with marginalisation if the same pattern is repeated in a muslim majority country.

    The fact that both countires are 60 odd years old as independants and yet india
    is lightyears ahead of its islamic republic neighbour speaks volumes.

    And as regards the violence that plagued partition, need you be reminded not to ignore that the most murders occurred 30 years after partition, when pakistan started executing a million or so fellow muslim bengali countrymen of the Politician in this interview - and needed secular india to step in to prevent genocide, nothing to do with West bengal having 'different goals'.

    That all proves that religous segregation based on the demands of muslim politicians was a backward initiative.


    Why not compare India to say Brunei?
    Or India to Abu Dhabi? Or India to Saudi Arabia? Turkey to India?
    Why Pakistan? We all know Pakistan is nut house at the moment and has been since partition but it was created out the blood of its people so no wonder its lacking in many ways.
    India maybe economically growing very fast but doesn't have the land mass to sustain its growing population, so watch this space for internal strife between the have and have nots.

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