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Please not Gluten, please not gluten

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Applying to Uni? Let Universities come to you. Click here to get your perfect place 20-10-2014
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    I've been having a few issues as of late, mainly dietary related.

    When I eat either bread or porridge I get terrible stomach aches and feel ill for a day or two afterwards (The amount of time for it to escape the system. Rather loosely.)

    It started when I begin feeling ill after bread. Noticing that it was only when I ate bread that I got the stomach aches (I could eat other flour products) I thought it was yeast and simply cut out that little complex carb.

    After a while I began changing my breakfast from yoghurt to porridge and lo and behold, I began feeling ill again.

    Cutting out porridge now and my stomach feels better again. I'm confused as I can still eat things like biscuits, oatcakes, cake, etc. so it didn't make sense in my head that only certain gluten products caused this. Do bread and porridge contain more gluten than other things? Will this actually ESCALATE to other things?

    This has only happened in the past couple of months. I've had an eating disorder before and I've heard intolerances can crop up after recovery weight. (5'9" male, from 105lbs to 164lbs-ish. Not skinny fat - fairly even muscle to fat gain)(Weight after recovery begins to drop again after maintaining and peaking, which is the point where I am at, but I didn't think it was supposed to drop because your body stops absorbing things!)
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    What did you used to eat with bread? Might be dairy?

    If it's gluten, how are you with rice and pasta? Do they effect you?

    Too much yeast will likely give you dandruff, have you suffered from that when eating bread?
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    I've just done a little googling for you - my uncle and cousin both have coeliac's so I'm vaguely familiar with it.
    On the one hand - there are 3 types of the condition, 'Silent', 'Minor' and 'Major' - if you had 'Minor' it says:
    'If you have minor coeliac disease, you may experience a wide range of minor symptoms. The symptoms are often intermittent (they stop and then start again), and sometimes they can appear unrelated to your diet and digestive symptoms.'
    So, it's possible you have it. However, it's equally possible you don't. I had a quick look on the UK site (http://www.coeliac.org.uk/coeliac-di...oeliac-disease)
    It says that a common confusion is to mistake the symptoms - it could also be Irritable Bowel Syndrome or a wheat intolerance. Or else it could be down to stress.

    At the end of the day, if it's making you ill the best thing to do is go to your doctor
    • Thread Starter
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    (Original post by umop apisdn)
    What did you used to eat with bread? Might be dairy?

    If it's gluten, how are you with rice and pasta? Do they effect you?

    Too much yeast will likely give you dandruff, have you suffered from that when eating bread?
    Definitely not dairy. I've pretty much tried an elimination diet to find out what was causing it. I'm fine with rice and pasta, might get bloated, but no stomach cramps. And no dandruff, only silky locks for me. (;p)

    (Original post by I'm_Unsafe.)
    I've just done a little googling for you - my uncle and cousin both have coeliac's so I'm vaguely familiar with it.
    On the one hand - there are 3 types of the condition, 'Silent', 'Minor' and 'Major' - if you had 'Minor' it says:
    'If you have minor coeliac disease, you may experience a wide range of minor symptoms. The symptoms are often intermittent (they stop and then start again), and sometimes they can appear unrelated to your diet and digestive symptoms.'
    So, it's possible you have it. However, it's equally possible you don't. I had a quick look on the UK site (http://www.coeliac.org.uk/coeliac-di...oeliac-disease)
    It says that a common confusion is to mistake the symptoms - it could also be Irritable Bowel Syndrome or a wheat intolerance. Or else it could be down to stress.

    At the end of the day, if it's making you ill the best thing to do is go to your doctor
    Thanks, I'm gonna give that a thorough looking into.

    I have thought IBS in the past but I didn't think it could be as specific as porridge and bread? Well, another thing to look at. Same with stress.

    Wheat intolerance it probably isn't as I eat all of the other lovely-unhealthy wheat foods like biscuits with no repercussions.

    I've been nervous about going to the doctor but I guess I'll have to bite the bullet sometime soon. Last time I went he pretty much told me I could exercise myself to death if I wanted to. (Turning blue during exercise means apparently EXERCISE MORE.)
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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    I've been having a few issues as of late, mainly dietary related.

    When I eat either bread or porridge I get terrible stomach aches and feel ill for a day or two afterwards (The amount of time for it to escape the system. Rather loosely.)

    It started when I begin feeling ill after bread. Noticing that it was only when I ate bread that I got the stomach aches (I could eat other flour products) I thought it was yeast and simply cut out that little complex carb.

    After a while I began changing my breakfast from yoghurt to porridge and lo and behold, I began feeling ill again.

    Cutting out porridge now and my stomach feels better again. I'm confused as I can still eat things like biscuits, oatcakes, cake, etc. so it didn't make sense in my head that only certain gluten products caused this. Do bread and porridge contain more gluten than other things? Will this actually ESCALATE to other things?

    This has only happened in the past couple of months. I've had an eating disorder before and I've heard intolerances can crop up after recovery weight. (5'9" male, from 105lbs to 164lbs-ish. Not skinny fat - fairly even muscle to fat gain)(Weight after recovery begins to drop again after maintaining and peaking, which is the point where I am at, but I didn't think it was supposed to drop because your body stops absorbing things!)

    if you can eat pasta, you have no trouble with gluten. it's the same wheat based product as bread.

    IBS doesn't normally happen after eating two specific kinds of foods.
    there are triggers and if you eat them you can have symptoms even 2 or 3 days after too, when they reach a specific type of the colon.

    Do you suffer from IBS? Here below you find a definition and it's important for your doctor to rule out other conditions before diagnosing you with IBS. IBS is a functional disorder. This means that there is nothing physically wrong but for whatever reason your gut responds to digestive stimuli more acutely than a normal person's digestive tract does. This results in constipation or diarrhoea or both, and bloating/gas and spasms/pain.)
    http://www.medicine.virginia.edu/cli...viArticle2.pdf


    Through dietary changes (be prepared for certain, perhaps many restrictions) you can lead a normal life with regular bowel movements and without pain. I as a fellow sufferer certainly do now, without ever looking back.

    Dietary rules:
    You may very well also have problems with FODMAPs so please see this first:
    http://www.todaysdietitian.com/newar...72710p30.shtml
    http://www.btpilates.co.nz/emailnews...dmapReview.pdf

    And the four main digestive stimulants (which our bowels are sensitive to) and we have to be careful about:
    1. No alcohol or only in small amounts and not on an empty stomach.

    2. No caffeine.

    3. Fat limited. Calories coming from fat should only be around a maximum of 25% of calories within any one meal. 1g of fat has 9kcal, 1g of carb/protein has 4kcal. A meal containing 400kcal should only have 100kcal coming from fat, 100/9=11g fat. Just how much fat you may be able to tolerate depends on the individual.

    4. Cut out wholegrains and limit your insoluble fibre intake. Always eat more soluble fibre within a meal than insoluble fibre. You may have to limit overall insoluble fibre intake within a meal too.

    A rough guide to help determine the soluble and insoluble contents of foods: http://huhs.harvard.edu/assets/File/...tion_Fiber.pdf
    (the available soluble fibre content of a fruit/vegetable is greatly increased by cooking. almost always the seeds/peel/roughage in a fruit or vegetable is the insoluble part).

    Something called resistant starch also acts as soluble fibre.
    http://www.simplot.com.au/simplotcor...tantStarch.pdf

    You would perhaps like to supplement meals with a soluble fibre supplement: I use Benefiber (containing nothing but wheat dextrin here in Britain)

    (To dispel the myth that wholegrains get things going for those suffering from IBS constipation:
    http://www.ibs-care.org/pdfs/ref_047.pdf)

    That is for IBS, if you have it. I'm an expert I have it, and can lead a normal life as long as I eat according to the rules.
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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    After a while I began changing my breakfast from yoghurt to porridge and lo and behold, I began feeling ill again.

    Cutting out porridge now and my stomach feels better again. I'm confused as I can still eat things like biscuits, oatcakes, cake, etc. so it didn't make sense in my head that only certain gluten products caused this. Do bread and porridge contain more gluten than other things?
    Oats don't contain any gluten. Well, there is a chance they can get contaminated by small amounts of gluten products - pure oats don't contain any.
    As you can eat other gluten products it seems unlikely that the gluten contamination would have a big effect.


    (Original post by umop apisdn)
    What did you used to eat with bread? Might be dairy?
    If it's gluten, how are you with rice and pasta? Do they affect you?
    Rice doesn't contain gluten. Pasta is another main source though.


    Probably best to go and talk to your GP about it. They can do a blood test for coeliac to see if that might be the problem.
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    (Original post by other one)
    if you can eat pasta, you have no trouble with gluten. it's the same wheat based product as bread.

    IBS doesn't normally happen after eating two specific kinds of foods.
    there are triggers and if you eat them you can have symptoms even 2 or 3 days after too, when they reach a specific type of the colon.

    Do you suffer from IBS? Here below you find a definition and it's important for your doctor to rule out other conditions before diagnosing you with IBS. IBS is a functional disorder. This means that there is nothing physically wrong but for whatever reason your gut responds to digestive stimuli more acutely than a normal person's digestive tract does. This results in constipation or diarrhoea or both, and bloating/gas and spasms/pain.)
    http://www.medicine.virginia.edu/cli...viArticle2.pdf


    Through dietary changes (be prepared for certain, perhaps many restrictions) you can lead a normal life with regular bowel movements and without pain. I as a fellow sufferer certainly do now, without ever looking back.

    Dietary rules:
    You may very well also have problems with FODMAPs so please see this first:
    http://www.todaysdietitian.com/newar...72710p30.shtml
    http://www.btpilates.co.nz/emailnews...dmapReview.pdf

    And the four main digestive stimulants (which our bowels are sensitive to) and we have to be careful about:
    1. No alcohol or only in small amounts and not on an empty stomach.

    2. No caffeine.

    3. Fat limited. Calories coming from fat should only be around a maximum of 25% of calories within any one meal. 1g of fat has 9kcal, 1g of carb/protein has 4kcal. A meal containing 400kcal should only have 100kcal coming from fat, 100/9=11g fat. Just how much fat you may be able to tolerate depends on the individual.

    4. Cut out wholegrains and limit your insoluble fibre intake. Always eat more soluble fibre within a meal than insoluble fibre. You may have to limit overall insoluble fibre intake within a meal too.

    A rough guide to help determine the soluble and insoluble contents of foods: http://huhs.harvard.edu/assets/File/...tion_Fiber.pdf
    (the available soluble fibre content of a fruit/vegetable is greatly increased by cooking. almost always the seeds/peel/roughage in a fruit or vegetable is the insoluble part).

    Something called resistant starch also acts as soluble fibre.
    http://www.simplot.com.au/simplotcor...tantStarch.pdf

    You would perhaps like to supplement meals with a soluble fibre supplement: I use Benefiber (containing nothing but wheat dextrin here in Britain)

    (To dispel the myth that wholegrains get things going for those suffering from IBS constipation:
    http://www.ibs-care.org/pdfs/ref_047.pdf)

    That is for IBS, if you have it. I'm an expert I have it, and can lead a normal life as long as I eat according to the rules.
    But how can you live a normal life if you are constantly eating around these guidelines? I have a condition that drastically limits what i can eat when I'm not on Omeprazole, which meant being on holiday and not able to prepare my own foods left me with extreme nausea and pain each night, and eating at work is very difficult.
    • Thread Starter
    #1

    (Original post by other one)
    if you can eat pasta, you have no trouble with gluten. it's the same wheat based product as bread.

    IBS doesn't normally happen after eating two specific kinds of foods.
    there are triggers and if you eat them you can have symptoms even 2 or 3 days after too, when they reach a specific type of the colon.

    Do you suffer from IBS? Here below you find a definition and it's important for your doctor to rule out other conditions before diagnosing you with IBS. IBS is a functional disorder. This means that there is nothing physically wrong but for whatever reason your gut responds to digestive stimuli more acutely than a normal person's digestive tract does. This results in constipation or diarrhoea or both, and bloating/gas and spasms/pain.)
    http://www.medicine.virginia.edu/cli...viArticle2.pdf


    Through dietary changes (be prepared for certain, perhaps many restrictions) you can lead a normal life with regular bowel movements and without pain. I as a fellow sufferer certainly do now, without ever looking back.

    Dietary rules:
    You may very well also have problems with FODMAPs so please see this first:
    http://www.todaysdietitian.com/newar...72710p30.shtml
    http://www.btpilates.co.nz/emailnews...dmapReview.pdf

    And the four main digestive stimulants (which our bowels are sensitive to) and we have to be careful about:
    1. No alcohol or only in small amounts and not on an empty stomach.

    2. No caffeine.

    3. Fat limited. Calories coming from fat should only be around a maximum of 25% of calories within any one meal. 1g of fat has 9kcal, 1g of carb/protein has 4kcal. A meal containing 400kcal should only have 100kcal coming from fat, 100/9=11g fat. Just how much fat you may be able to tolerate depends on the individual.

    4. Cut out wholegrains and limit your insoluble fibre intake. Always eat more soluble fibre within a meal than insoluble fibre. You may have to limit overall insoluble fibre intake within a meal too.

    A rough guide to help determine the soluble and insoluble contents of foods: http://huhs.harvard.edu/assets/File/...tion_Fiber.pdf
    (the available soluble fibre content of a fruit/vegetable is greatly increased by cooking. almost always the seeds/peel/roughage in a fruit or vegetable is the insoluble part).

    Something called resistant starch also acts as soluble fibre.
    http://www.simplot.com.au/simplotcor...tantStarch.pdf

    You would perhaps like to supplement meals with a soluble fibre supplement: I use Benefiber (containing nothing but wheat dextrin here in Britain)

    (To dispel the myth that wholegrains get things going for those suffering from IBS constipation:
    http://www.ibs-care.org/pdfs/ref_047.pdf)

    That is for IBS, if you have it. I'm an expert I have it, and can lead a normal life as long as I eat according to the rules.
    The thing is why would I cut out those things if they aren't the things that aren't causing me issues?

    I already eat a diet high in fruit and veg (generally around 5-7 a day). I barely drink alcohol, my caffeine... kay. No comment on coffee. ('¬__¬). The fats I eat tend to be from very dark chocolate (Cocoa Nibs, 85%+, etc.) or healthy fats.

    (Original post by alice4thamoon)
    But how can you live a normal life if you are constantly eating around these guidelines? I have a condition that drastically limits what i can eat when I'm not on Omeprazole, which meant being on holiday and not able to prepare my own foods left me with extreme nausea and pain each night, and eating at work is very difficult.
    Lentils and beans as a carb by the sounds of it, with something like chicken or fish... Could make nice tomato sauces though!
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    (Original post by alice4thamoon)
    But how can you live a normal life if you are constantly eating around these guidelines? I have a condition that drastically limits what i can eat when I'm not on Omeprazole, which meant being on holiday and not able to prepare my own foods left me with extreme nausea and pain each night, and eating at work is very difficult.
    I know, I don't eat out, I don't have food at work, but pack myself lunch and snacks, holidays, not easy. It's a normal life in terms of if I eat according to these rules at least I am not doubled up in pain wishing I was dead
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    (Original post by other one)
    I know, I don't eat out, I don't have food at work, but pack myself lunch and snacks, holidays, not easy. It's a normal life in terms of if I eat according to these rules at least I am not doubled up in pain wishing I was dead
    God you've made me glad that I have drugs which suppress my problem...
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    (Original post by other one)
    That is for IBS, if you have it. I'm an expert I have it, and can lead a normal life as long as I eat according to the rules.
    Same here. But the rules (no wheat and limited fruit and veg intake) are difficult to live by.
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    The oats used in porridge don't have gluten so you might be reacting to dairy products... eg. butter or milk?
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    Kay, I've been thinking this through.

    I know I get a bad reaction to soy.
    When I made the porridge I made it with water and hazelnut milk.
    Soy milk and hazelnut milk are fairly similar in that they are actually soy particles and hazelnut particles suspended in water. (It's the reason that it collects at the bottom of the carton.) With that it may actually be small undigested particles irritating the gut. (Logically large particles are easy to shift as they get carried with the flow, small particles cling to the intestinal wall so it would need to produce a mucus to get rid of it.)

    Bread follows the same principles with flour particles.

    Cakes and biscuits actually are denser than bread particle to area wise.

    The best thing I can think of that would explain it all...
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    Oats DO have gluten. In the UK anyway and probably a lot of other countries, they are grown in fields with wheat and are therefore basically all contaminated. Unless you actually buy GF ones which are grown separate from wheat, then they will have gluten. But you should be getting sick after eating pasta/cakes/biscuits too if you were Coeliac... it doesn't sound like it. It doesn't matter how much gluten there is in it, even a crumb can make some Coeliacs sick.

    Don't try to cut out gluten before going to get tested. It's a simple blood test (to start) so go to your GP if you seriously think it is gluten.
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    The majority of people with Coeliac disease do tend to develop other food intolerances, although in most cases they are usually temporary. Oats don't technically contain gluten, however if they are processed in the same environment as any wheaty products, they can become contaminated. With that being said, people with CD, do sometimes become intolerant towards oats regardless of whether there are no traces of gluten. I myself, tend to experience cramps when consuming oats, which is something I hadn't previously experienced prior to being diagnosed with Coeliac disease. At least I don't quite think I did.

    As another poster has already mentioned, there are 3 different forms that an individual may experience. Some foods may set you off, and with others you'll cope just fine. I envy those that fit into the 'silent' category and go through life without having to endure any of the horrible after-effects. The only symptom I experience is bloating, yet it is huge burden on my health, and the diet itself isn't making a difference either. It's incredibly frustrating, but I digress. You mentioned you experience bloating with pasta/rice, is this after every consumption, or just occasionally?

    Btw, how are your iron levels?

    To those with Coeliac disease, are you taking any digestive enzymes?
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    (Original post by WildBerrySpirit)
    The majority of people with Coeliac disease do tend to develop other food intolerances, although in most cases they are usually temporary. Oats don't technically contain gluten, however if they are processed in the same environment as any wheaty products, they can become contaminated. With that being said, people with CD, do sometimes become intolerant towards oats regardless of whether there are no traces of gluten. I myself, tend to experience cramps when consuming oats, which is something I hadn't previously experienced prior to being diagnosed with Coeliac disease. At least I don't quite think I did.

    As another poster has already mentioned, there are 3 different forms that an individual may experience. Some foods may set you off, and with others you'll cope just fine. I envy those that fit into the 'silent' category and go through life without having to endure any of the horrible after-effects. The only symptom I experience is bloating, yet it is huge burden on my health, and the diet itself isn't making a difference either. It's incredibly frustrating, but I digress. You mentioned you experience bloating with pasta/rice, is this after every consumption, or just occasionally?

    Btw, how are your iron levels?

    To those with Coeliac disease, are you taking any digestive enzymes?
    I was wary about starting the GF oats as I don't seem to get symptoms any more. I've been Coeliac 12 years. Taking digestive enzymes hasn't come up yet - are you, why were you put on them? I am currently having problems but I don't think it's related to Coeliac. I blame extreme stress! Buscopan is seeming to work sometimes. I was told I 'probably' have IBS so maybe not connected at all. I have never gone to a Coeliac clinic, I only thought of it when I asked my doctor for a bone scan a few months ago and he assumed my clinic had sent me. Thinking of asking him next time I go in.
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    (Original post by Sprockette)
    Oats DO have gluten. In the UK anyway and probably a lot of other countries, they are grown in fields with wheat and are therefore basically all contaminated. Unless you actually buy GF ones which are grown separate from wheat, then they will have gluten. But you should be getting sick after eating pasta/cakes/biscuits too if you were Coeliac... it doesn't sound like it. It doesn't matter how much gluten there is in it, even a crumb can make some Coeliacs sick.

    Don't try to cut out gluten before going to get tested. It's a simple blood test (to start) so go to your GP if you seriously think it is gluten.
    :ditto:

    But because of this, if it does turn out to be a gluten allergy then having oats for breakfast doesn't have to be a problem. You can buy special porridge that is gluten free.

    Some coeliacs do still have a problem with oats, even gluten free oats, as they're similar and their bodies react anyway, but others are fine.
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    (Original post by Sprockette)
    I was wary about starting the GF oats as I don't seem to get symptoms any more. I've been Coeliac 12 years. Taking digestive enzymes hasn't come up yet - are you, why were you put on them? I am currently having problems but I don't think it's related to Coeliac. I blame extreme stress! Buscopan is seeming to work sometimes. I was told I 'probably' have IBS so maybe not connected at all. I have never gone to a Coeliac clinic, I only thought of it when I asked my doctor for a bone scan a few months ago and he assumed my clinic had sent me. Thinking of asking him next time I go in.
    I suppose you could give it a try, but then again is it worth the risk of having all those symptoms return, even if it is only for a short time? Wow, that is an incredibly long time; when did you begin the GF diet? I was only diagnosed last year, but I suspect I've had a gluten intolerance for almost 7 years. Although, I was told to begin with that I had IBS, considering the only problem I experienced back then were cramps. The digestive enzymes were actually suggested by a friend, seeing as the diet appears to be making no difference with the bloating. I'm just uncertain as to which ones I should take. I haven't been to one either, I guess the topic will come up when I see the gastroenterologist.
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    (Original post by WildBerrySpirit)
    I suppose you could give it a try, but then again is it worth the risk of having all those symptoms return, even if it is only for a short time? Wow, that is an incredibly long time; when did you begin the GF diet? I was only diagnosed last year, but I suspect I've had a gluten intolerance for almost 7 years. Although, I was told to begin with that I had IBS, considering the only problem I experienced back then were cramps. The digestive enzymes were actually suggested by a friend, seeing as the diet appears to be making no difference with the bloating. I'm just uncertain as to which ones I should take. I haven't been to one either, I guess the topic will come up when I see the gastroenterologist.
    I tried them a few months ago - I didn't notice any difference but then again I'm not exactly healthy for basically most of the last year (digestive system speaking). I have had a few mishaps where someone gave me something they assured me was GF but then I found out later it had gluten. One episode was some cake made from rye. I think people tend to see wheat free and think, "Oh that's ok!". When that happened I didn't notice any symptoms so I'm extra paranoid about eating something and not noticing. I had symptoms before I was diagnosed and then straight after I went on a GF diet I got dermatitis herpetiformis, just after coming out of hospital. The most itchy thing I've ever experienced!? I don't think I usually have slips though, my antibodies have never come back positive after diagnosis.

    I had constant symptoms for nearly a year before diagnosis, I was 4 stone when I finally went into hospital (aged 13 or 14)!

    I've got used to it, it's second nature now. Although I still get annoyed about it but there is no temptation to eat anything. I sometimes go into Tesco and just look at the pastries and think what I'd have if I wasn't Coeliac though lol
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    (Original post by Sprockette)
    I think people tend to see wheat free and think, "Oh that's ok!".
    I've found this. I then look at the ingredients list and it says "contains "wheat flour".:rolleyes:

    There's a lady at work who offers me biscuits and when I say no, she always says "oh sorry; I forgot you can't have wheat".:rolleyes:

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