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Can islamification and democracy peacefully coexist?

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    I ask this question from a neutral stance, can islamification and democracy fully and peacefully develop alongside one another in one society?

    Where certain forms of freedom of speech (ie homosexuality and fornicating) are strictly forbidden, even punishable by death.

    or where underage sex and bigamy is forbidden in western societies?
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    Yes I mean haven't you seen Saudi Arabia?
    Women can't drive and were only recently allowed to vote,that's real democracy isn't it.
    I mean you can drink whenever you want. It's not as if a certain percentage of rich oil hungry Arabs dictate what you say or do.

    Totally free society as long as you are rich and do what they say.

    Spoiler:
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    /sarcasm.
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    (Original post by AverageExcellence)
    I ask this question from a neutral stance, can islamification and democracy fully and peacefully develop alongside one another in one society?
    No. Democracy takes it's shape from man, Islam takes it's shape from man also, but under the pretence of God. Democracy is subject to fluidity by assumption, whereas the dogma of Islam is not, again by assumption.

    The two are fundamentally at odds with each other.
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    **** no. 1. Democratic societies do not stone, lash or otherwise punish adulterers, homosexuals and apostates; Islamic societies do. 2. Democratic societies mostly uphold freedom of speech - in Islam, blasphemy is punishable by death. 3. Democratic societies believe in freedom of and from religion; Islam only believes in the freedom to enter Islam. That is what "there is no compulsion in religion 2:256" (la ikrah fi-deen) means. That is the interpretation that's most widely held by mufassiroon* so don't listen to Islamic apologists who beat the religon of peace111111 drum. It bloody well ain't. Need I go on? :rolleyes: Islam is totally and fundamentally at odds with human rights and democracy.


    (*For non-Muslims, that fancy word basically means formally-educated Islamic scholars who decipher the meanings of Qur'anic verses.)
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    (Original post by AverageExcellence)
    I ask this question from a neutral stance, can islamification and democracy fully and peacefully develop alongside one another in one society?

    Where certain forms of freedom of speech (ie homosexuality and fornicating) are strictly forbidden, even punishable by death.

    or where underage sex and bigamy is forbidden in western societies?
    Considering you condone Beastiality, prostitution, abortion, drugs, getting wasted, gambling, droning civilians (which btw is "anti human rights") and the likes, I don't think we're compatible, sorry :sigh:.

    But hey, one society we shall be. In fact, Eurobia doesn't sound like a bad name, I think it has a nice ring to it.
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    (Original post by Perseveranze)
    Considering you condone Beastiality, prostitution, abortion, drugs, getting wasted, gambling, droning civilians (which btw is "anti human rights") and the likes, I don't think we're compatible, sorry :sigh:.

    But hey, one society we shall be. In fact, Eurobia doesn't sound like a bad name, I think it has a nice ring to it.
    If you are implying those things are limited to western countrys then you are mistaken, in fact Muslim country's such as Pakistan has the highest amount of searches for bestiality in the world by far.
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    (Original post by Dont Tread On Me)
    If you are implying those things are limited to western countrys then you are mistaken, in fact Muslim country's such as Pakistan has the highest amount of searches for bestiality in the world by far.
    I already refuted this.

    Again, as you done in the other thread, you paste things without reading/understanding what you're pasting in the first place.

    In the west they would use a variety of different search terms whenever searching for porn, whereas in the asian countries they use limited search words. America itself has the largest porn making industry, did you not even think about this once?

    If you could add all the search terms which imply they're searching for porn, then I garantee you that list would be very very different.

    And you missed the disclaimer -

    The search engine, however, makes no claim that its trend may be accurate. "We hope you find this service interesting and entertaining, but you probably don't want to write your PhD dissertation based on this information."

    ps. It's not the least bit shocking you'd buy it ^
    Eitherway, atleast it's not encouraged and in most Muslim countries there's severe persecution for it.

    We're talking about "Islamists" (I take it these are people who support Shariah?) against so called "Democrats".
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    Hmmm...this is a difficult one. Personally I would say. I am of Nigerian origin, and in Nigeria, this a major problem. Nigeria is a democratic state and is a growing economy (has been mentioned as a potential candidate to join the BRIC Nations), however the Northern part are predominately Muslims, while thos in the South are Christians, with more westernised beliefs. There is currently a huge situation in Nigeria where the Northerners refuse to abide by the Democratic laws of the country and want Nigeria to run under sharia law, which is unlikely to happen. Right now in Nigeria we have a so called Islamic radical terrorist group called Boko Haram who have decide to take actions into their own hands, and for the last 9 months have been targeting churches and anything westernised with bombings, unfortunately there have been many casualties. There is more to the story in terms of why they are doing thid, but it would take a while to explain.

    My point is that there is too much of clash between Islamic Sharia law and Westernised beliefs, which makes it extremely difficult for peaceful harmony.

    Again this is a basis of Nigeria's case, a nation where its about a 50/50 split between Islam and Christianity.

    EDIT: It should also be mentioned however that prior to the last 9 months where things have really intensified. Minus a few situations (such as burning down of churches in the north, and a few riots over the years). The majority of the population do live together in relative peace.
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    Probably, but who cares? It's never going to happen in the UK. When given the choice between democracy and religious/Islamic law, people will always choose democracy. We've seen it in the Arab Spring, we've seen it in Turkey, and we can see it with Muslims in this country.
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    (Original post by Perseveranze)
    Considering you condone Beastiality, prostitution, abortion, drugs, getting wasted, gambling, droning civilians (which btw is "anti human rights") and the likes, I don't think we're compatible, sorry :sigh:.

    But hey, one society we shall be. In fact, Eurobia doesn't sound like a bad name, I think it has a nice ring to it.
    "Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others"- Churchill

    Democracy has its flaws, but compared to all the other systems of government, it's probably the best. You don't get anyone in democracies complaining about living in a democracy and wanting to change the political system from a democracy to something else.
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    (Original post by Perseveranze)
    I already refuted this.



    Eitherway, atleast it's not encouraged and in most Muslim countries there's severe persecution for it.

    We're talking about "Islamists" (I take it these are people who support Shariah?) against so called "Democrats".



    Clutching at straws again



    http://www.google.com/trends/?q=sex&...te=2012&sort=0
    http://www.google.com/trends/?q=nake...te=2012&sort=0
    http://www.google.com/trends/?q=porn...te=2012&sort=0


    Go on Perseveranze type in any sexual phrase you can think of, try find one without Pakistan in the top 10. Bearing in mind lots of the country doesn't even have internet.
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    Sorry but did you actually read, no wait, comprehend my post? You're just going by common words, which is what most people in Asian countries know. Unlike the west or America who produce the most amount of porn, where searches are done on specific porn acts and porn stars themselves and other more diverse key words.

    (Original post by navarre)
    "Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others"- Churchill

    Democracy has its flaws, but compared to all the other systems of government, it's probably the best. You don't get anyone in democracies complaining about living in a democracy and wanting to change the political system from a democracy to something else.
    Democracy has way to many flaws, you can't really say it's the best system. There are many people who would certainly disagree with that.

    "Democracy is a system where people are counted not weighed." - Allama Iqbal
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    (Original post by Perseveranze)
    Sorry but did you actually read, no wait, comprehend my post? You're just going by common words, which is what most people in Asian countries know. Unlike the west or America who produce the most amount of porn, where searches are done on specific porn acts and porn stars themselves and other more diverse key words.


    http://www.google.com/trends/?q=anal...te=2012&sort=0


    Go on, find me one :sexface:


    LOL You're in such denial its hilarious. Only 17% of people in Pakistan have internet access http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_in_Pakistan

    And you STILL find your way into the top 10 most of the time.

    I like watching you squirm.
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    (Original post by Akinfenwa)
    http://www.google.com/trends/?q=anal...te=2012&sort=0


    Go on, find me one :sexface:


    LOL You're in such denial its hilarious. Only 17% of people in Pakistan have internet access http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_in_Pakistan

    And you STILL find your way into the top 10 most of the time.

    I like watching you squirm.
    Your not watching me squirm though, rather just embarassing yourself. You're bringing about common terms, when I gave you clear cut examples of the diversity of porn related searches that exist. This diversity, which only the "educated west" would make full use of, rather then simple and ambigius terms as "porn".

    I mean, try searching some famous porn stars, see where Pakistan comes on them.

    And once again, you completly ignored this -

    The search engine, however, makes no claim that its trend may be accurate. "We hope you find this service interesting and entertaining, but you probably don't want to write your PhD dissertation based on this information."


    (Original post by Akinfenwa)
    Go on Perseveranze type in any sexual phrase you can think of, try find one without Pakistan in the top 10. Bearing in mind lots of the country doesn't even have internet.
    I don't know many phrases, for obvious reasons. But, feel free to experiment, I'm sure you won't find asian countries in the top 10 for any of the less common known search terms.
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    Nope they are incompatible.

    They have a few similarities but are fundamentally far too different to ever peacefully co exist within the same society.
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    (Original post by AverageExcellence)
    Where certain forms of freedom of speech (ie homosexuality and fornicating) are strictly forbidden, even punishable by death.
    How are homosexuality and fornicating forms of "freedom of speech"?

    Anyway, yes - democracy and Islam can coexist. For example, suppose a Muslim majority country democratically elects a ruling party which bases its policies on Islamic principles. That would be an example of Islam being democratically chosen, wouldn't it? In such a case, they are co-existing. Though many people have probably read your thread title and mistaken the term "democracy" to mean something about a society with a mostly western culture - and on that basis suggested that they cannot coexist (since Islamic principles are sometimes strongly at odds with western principles).
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    (Original post by Perseveranze)
    Your not watching me squirm though, rather just embarassing yourself. You're bringing about common terms, when I gave you clear cut examples of the diversity of porn related searches that exist. This diversity, which only the "educated west" would make full use of, rather then simple and ambigius terms as "porn".

    I mean, try searching some famous porn stars, see where Pakistan comes on them.

    I don't know many phrases, for obvious reasons. But, feel free to experiment, I'm sure you won't find asian countries in the top 10 for any of the less common known search terms.

    Considering you condone Beastiality, prostitution, abortion, drugs, getting wasted, gambling, droning civilians (which btw is "anti human rights") and the likes, I don't think we're compatible, sorry .
    "Pakistan is top dog in searches per-person for "horse sex" since 2004, "donkey sex" since 2007, "rape pictures" between 2004 and 2009, "rape sex" since 2004, "child sex" between 2004 and 2007 and since 2009, "animal sex" since 2004 and "dog sex" since 2005, according to Google Trends and Google Insights, features of Google that generate data based on popular search terms."


    http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/07...phic-material/

    You are hilarious. I don't really know what you are trying to argue. I'm simply pointing out the disgusting nature of Pakistani's and there hypocritical attitudes towards western society. So what if these statistics are not 100% there at least a good indicator of the most popular search terms used. How disgusting you say that the west condones bestiality the only people searching for it seem to be Pakistanis. I'm off pointless arguing with a warped mind like you. You can continue to bury your head in the sand about the supposed Purity and status Islam supposedly holds women in, also don't bother moaning that fox is a biased lying source, If you want proof look at the google trends yourself.
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    (Original post by Perseveranze)
    Your not watching me squirm though, rather just embarassing yourself. You're bringing about common terms, when I gave you clear cut examples of the diversity of porn related searches that exist. This diversity, which only the "educated west" would make full use of, rather then simple and ambigius terms as "porn".

    I mean, try searching some famous porn stars, see where Pakistan comes on them.

    And once again, you completly ignored this -

    The search engine, however, makes no claim that its trend may be accurate. "We hope you find this service interesting and entertaining, but you probably don't want to write your PhD dissertation based on this information."
    "Pakistan has embarrassingly been topping Google search for words like 'porn'."
    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/sind...b_1310009.html

    "Porn Flourishes in Socially Conservative Pakistan"
    http://www.thejakartaglobe.com/News/...akistan/504032

    Other search engine statistics corroborate those claims - just do a few Google searches.

    Just admit it - Middle Easterns are just as horny as their Western counterparts. It's nothing to be embarrassed about; I'd be concerned if you lot weren't so sexually illustrious - what with all the children you're churning out.

    To answer the question, "Islamification" (the adoption of Islamic institutions) seems to be associated with fundamentalism, in which democracy is not recognised as a legitimate institution. So, I doubt they'd be compatible on an ideological, legal or structural level.
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    Nope. Islam is the enemy of democracy.
    Islam and religion in general, by definition, do not allow coexistence with democracy. They are about following doctrine whether or not you agree with it.
    How can the beliefs and wants of humans take precedence over the supposed rules of god?
    This is why islam and religion need to be stamped out of the public sphere.

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