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Why do white people and black-Caribbean people have high rates of family breakdown?

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    (Original post by effofex)
    You could argue that they have also been harmed by the sale of cheaper liquor (per ml) at supermarkets, the choice of people to drink alcohol at home, proliferation of nightclubs and bars which may take more of their clientele etc.

    None of these things have been orchestrated by the UK government.
    That's a fair point but pubs should probably be regarded as commercial enterprises operating in a market economy rather than a cultural enterprise. It should be subject to the same market forces as a grocery store or fishmonger (which may also have social/cultural value). I don't think the government should be using protectionist policies or subsidising pubs because of 'culture'. Museums and libraries yes.
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    (Original post by effofex)
    Which aspect of English working-class culture has the UK government actively passed legislation against over the past 50 years?

    At the moment I can only think of the smoking ban, which would have more of an effect on Egyptian working class culture (for those people in the UK who are of Egyptan ancestry) than on English working class culture - since the proportion of Egyptians who are smokers (indoors) is higher than the proportion of English people who smoke.
    Freedom of speech?
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    (Original post by Brutal Honesty)
    I'm surprised that you have bothered to reply since you have failed to make any justifications for your claims whatsoever. You've simply fetishised Enoch Powell's speech and shown pre-emptive offence at imaginary insults. As I have said white British culture or white, working class culture hasn't been 'practically outlawed' by the government. I agree there may be issues with income disparity and the closure of factories/mines has had a devastating effect on employment for working class people in many areas but this has nothing to do with multiculturalism or state authoritarianism vis-a-vis working class culture.
    Your opinion, yet to be substantiated. I presume you decided against watching the BBC documentary.
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    (Original post by Bonged.)
    Freedom of speech?
    Surely this applies to non-English and non-working class people as well?
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    (Original post by Bonged.)
    Your opinion, yet to be substantiated. I presume you decided against watching the BBC documentary.
    Correct. If you can't explain your argument rather than referring to long documentaries than just admit you can't explain your argument. If I watch the documentary chances are I'll have come to a very different conclusion to you. This is basic stuff. Your claim is a bold one yet you've failed to justify it at all. I see you've made some reference to freedom of speech but I don't see the link between the state oppressing white working class culture and limits on speech.
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    (Original post by effofex)
    Surely this applies to non-English and non-working class people as well?
    Not really. I've yet to see an ethnic minority individual be penalised for racism.
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    (Original post by effofex)
    Surely this applies to non-English and non-working class people as well?
    Case in point: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...ther_multiline - brown guy charged with racial hatred because he criticised soldiers on facebook.
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    (Original post by Brutal Honesty)
    Correct. If you can't explain your argument rather than referring to long documentaries than just admit you can't explain your argument. If I watch the documentary chances are I'll have come to a very different conclusion to you. This is basic stuff. Your claim is a bold one yet you've failed to justify it at all. I see you've made some reference to freedom of speech but I don't see the link between the state oppressing white working class culture and limits on speech.
    Allow me to elaborate. White working class people that live with ethnic minorities in the same areas of town share the same social conditions yet they are not given the same funding, scholarships etc. Also white people can be imprisoned for verbally abusing ethnic minorities, but not the other way round. In fact if ethnic minorities physically attack white people for racial reasons nothing happens.

    Considering the point I was making was that there was more to Powell's speech than "whip hand over the white man", the documentary is sufficient evidence. What is yours btw?
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    (Original post by Bonged.)
    Not really. I've yet to see an ethnic minority individual be penalised for racism.
    You might want to see my above post:
    Azhar Ahmed is the latest victim of a concerted effort to redefine racism as "anything that could conceivably offend white people". Ahmed is being prosecuted by police over a statement that appeared on his Facebook page. The police say it is a "racially aggravated public order offence".
    His facebook comment doesn't even refer to any race.
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    (Original post by Brutal Honesty)
    Case in point: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...ther_multiline - brown guy charged with racial hatred because he criticised soldiers on facebook.
    I stopped reading after :Azhar Ahmed is the latest victim of a concerted effort to redefine racism as "anything that could conceivably offend white people"

    Guardian really doesn't help itself.

    How long is he spending inside btw?
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    (Original post by Brutal Honesty)
    You might want to see my above post:


    His facebook comment doesn't even refer to any race.
    Yep. Locking people up for their opinions is moronic. Thank the government.
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    (Original post by Bonged.)
    Not really. I've yet to see an ethnic minority individual be penalised for racism.
    There is this: http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/ju...t-jibe-bristol
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    (Original post by Bonged.)
    I stopped reading after :Azhar Ahmed is the latest victim of a concerted effort to redefine racism as "anything that could conceivably offend white people"

    Guardian really doesn't help itself.
    That's the opinion aspect (it is on comment is free). There's a sky news link in there which is free of comment and highlights he was arrested on grounds of racial hatred and there's a screenshot of the offending facebook comment.

    Azhar Ahmed, 19, is said to have posted the comments on his profile page and has been charged with a racially aggravated public order offence.
    With regards to your other post:

    Allow me to elaborate. White working class people that live with ethnic minorities in the same areas of town share the same social conditions yet they are not given the same funding, scholarships etc. Also white people can be imprisoned for verbally abusing ethnic minorities, but not the other way round. In fact if ethnic minorities physically attack white people for racial reasons nothing happens.

    Considering the point I was making was that there was more to Powell's speech than "whip hand over the white man", the documentary is sufficient evidence. What is yours btw?
    First let me specify, if you're the one who's making bold claims it is your responsibility to provide evidence to justify those claims. I don't have to provide evidence to prove that your claims are false, e.g. you say black people are responsible for all murders in Peterborough, I don't have to prove they aren't but you have to show sufficient evidence they are.

    Now we've got that basic premise sorted, your claim is false. I agree white people can be arrested/charged with racial abuse but this is also the case for minorities. I have already given a fairly well publicised case as an example and have provided two separate links. Let's remember though you're the one making the claim. Evidence/link to a study which shows that only white people are charged with such crimes and that minorities always get away with beating up white people? I'd also like to see evidence for the claim that white people receive less funding/grants than minorities in the same area. If this were true I'd imagine it'd be national news by now, you should be able to find plenty of evidence in favour of your position. I await with anticipation.
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    How long are they spending in prison?
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    (Original post by whyumadtho)
    Perhaps the hardships of socioeconomic deprivation combined with the general culture of family cohesiveness not being a strong expectation are responsible.
    cohesion :cool:

    Only knew that because it's a biological term
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    (Original post by Bonged.)
    Yep. Locking people up for their opinions is moronic. Thank the government.
    You concede that you were wrong in stating that only white people are charged with such offences?
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    (Original post by Brutal Honesty)
    That's the opinion aspect (it is on comment is free). There's a sky news link in there which is free of comment and highlights he was arrested on grounds of racial hatred and there's a screenshot of the offending facebook comment.



    With regards to your other post:


    First let me specify, if you're the one who's making bold claims it is your responsibility to provide evidence to justify those claims. I don't have to provide evidence to prove that your claims are false, e.g. you say black people are responsible for all murders in Peterborough, I don't have to prove they aren't but you have to show sufficient evidence they are.

    Now we've got that basic premise sorted, your claim is false. I agree white people can be arrested/charged with racial abuse but this is also the case for minorities. I have already given a fairly well publicised case as an example and have provided two separate links. Let's remember though you're the one making the claim. Evidence/link to a study which shows that only white people are charged with such crimes and that minorities always get away with beating up white people? I'd also like to see evidence for the claim that white people receive less funding/grants than minorities in the same area. If this were true I'd imagine it'd be national news by now, you should be able to find plenty of evidence in favour of your position. I await with anticipation.
    No probs mate.

    White mouths off about immigration levels - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-16051120

    result - prison.

    Gang of somalis beats and stomps a white woman on the floor shouting "kill the white slag" http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...lag-FREED.html (in b4 daily mail herp derp)

    result - nothing

    Funding for ethnically exclusive programs:
    http://www.theuninetwork.org.uk/docu...astEngland.pdf

    There's much, much more. If this isn't enough just say and I could put up more cases.
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    (Original post by Brutal Honesty)
    You concede that you were wrong in stating that only white people are charged with such offences?
    I apologise for my semantics, I should have said mostly white people.
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    (Original post by Bonged.)
    No probs mate.

    White mouths off about immigration levels - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-16051120

    result - prison.

    Gang of somalis beats and stomps a white woman on the floor shouting "kill the white slag" http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...lag-FREED.html (in b4 daily mail herp derp)

    result - nothing

    Funding for ethnically exclusive programs:
    http://www.theuninetwork.org.uk/docu...astEngland.pdf

    There's much, much more. If this isn't enough just say and I could put up more cases.
    I think Emma West's comments were far more than simply criticising immigration policy surely you must understand that? The case where the Somalian teenagers got off because they were drunk is unacceptable in my opinion but it's anecdotal. Your claim that only white people are arrested for such crimes is clearly wrong. If you want to change your stance and make the claim that white people are less likely to be arrested then you'll have to provide sufficient evidence which shows that is the case. Maybe a link to a study comparing the likelihood of a white man vs a black man being charged for an identical racist offence?

    Your link to the list of organisations is part of the uni network which is a registered charity. I don't see any evidence suggesting these are funded by government? If they were they should be open/available to everyone and I've been to such organisations (Chinese language) where even though I'm not a minority I've been treated equally.
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    (Original post by Brutal Honesty)
    I think Emma West's comments were far more than simply criticising immigration policy surely you must understand that? The case where the Somalian teenagers got off because they were drunk is unacceptable in my opinion but it's anecdotal. Your claim that only white people are arrested for such crimes is clearly wrong. If you want to change your stance and make the claim that white people are less likely to be arrested then you'll have to provide sufficient evidence which shows that is the case. Maybe a link to a study comparing the likelihood of a white man vs a black man being charged for an identical racist offence?

    Your link to the list of organisations is part of the uni network which is a registered charity. I don't see any evidence suggesting these are funded by government? If they were they should be open/available to everyone and I've been to such organisations (Chinese language) where even though I'm not a minority I've been treated equally.
    HAHA! Quality!


    There's no point in continuing this if you won't accept evidence.

    What did Emma West do despite loudly complain about the level of immigration to her area in a vulgar manner?

    It's not anecdotal. It's documented.

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