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Israel or Palestine- who's the 'bad' guy?

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Applying to Uni? Let Universities come to you. Click here to get your perfect place 20-10-2014
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    @ronk23
    would like to help you more with your assignment but it looks like its just going to be me against the entire forum who has little and incorrect knowledge of the situation

    :israel:
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    (Original post by 4RealBlud)
    Israel is the aggressor. Why? Did you know that Israel's very existence was based on terrorism?
    See the problem that Israel has is that the opposition is against its existence at all. To make peace this has to be changed but it never will be, hence the continuation of the conflict.
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    (Original post by LondonBoy16)
    @ronk23
    would like to help you more with your assignment but it looks like its just going to be me against the entire forum who has little and incorrect knowledge of the situation

    :israel:
    Well, then enlighten us oh dear guru of the israeli-palestinian conflict
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    cant really when its 20 on 1 . will happily engage in a closed debate between me and you that's open to the public but hard to keep up with a billion posts
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    (Original post by KimKallstrom)
    See the problem that Israel has is that the opposition is against its existence at all. To make peace this has to be changed but it never will be, hence the continuation of the conflict.
    I agree. The only way this could be resolved is if the palestinians accept a border with the israelis or israel is vanquished. This conflict will not be resolved tommorow
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    Palestine are 100% the bad guys. Israel is a fantastic nation.
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    (Original post by ronki23)
    They paid money for that land to the Arabs and were kicked out when the Arabs thought too many Jews were in Palestine
    You can't dispute the fact that Israelis have gone into Gaza and have torn down civilians houses, as a kind of revenge. If they have been forced out then why are there still so many Israeli settlements there? And surely they have that right? They have very little land anyway and are as a result experiencing overcrowding, because Israelis are reducing their land area. Because the Israelis have an incredible amount of power over the Palestinians the amount paid will likely be much lower than the actual value of the land.

    I would like to add that I am saying this as an outsider, I don't have a vested interest and I am just putting across my views as I see the situation, and I have heard many arguments for both sides.
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    (Original post by LondonBoy16)
    cant really when its 20 on 1 . will happily engage in a closed debate between me and you that's open to the public but hard to keep up with a billion posts
    We could just keep quoting each other, that way we know what posts are ours? Please, i am very interested to debate this with a knowledgeable pro-israeli. Why is palestine the aggressor here?
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    (Original post by cl_steele)
    from the present perspective palestine cant really be the bad guy as it doesnt technically exist :rolleyes:
    Good catch
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    Ok, last few questions:

    Do the Arabs still care about the Temple Mount even if they don't care about the people?

    I also hear of British-Zionist conflicts during WWII-that doesn't sound too good on the Jews side,especially as the latter were helped by the USA. Still, if they were fighting for their rights that was still more acceptable than flying planes into towers full of civilians.
    What do you think of the British-Zionist conflict as it overcomplicates things!!

    And then there are these:

    http://www.youtube.com/v/I73UtRRSbqg&hl=en_US&feature

    http://www.youtube.com/v/9oeB3QhX2RI&hl=en_US&feature

    http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHART...t_zionism.html


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Zionism
    http://www.nkusa.org/
    http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/

    http://www.youtube.com/v/mR-jMY9e5wI&hl=en_US&feature

    http://www.arabsforisrael.com/

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_...ters_of_Israel
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    not very good with that
    well dependa what part of 'palestine' you are talking about
    Hamas controlled or PA controlled?

    :israel:
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    It's obviously the Palestinians, they're the bad ones for wanting freedom, for wanting their human right which is the right to return, they're bad for not wanting to be killed and they are most certainly bad for not wanting to live under apartheid or live in a blockaded state. Like WHO THE HECK DO THEY THINK THEY ARE?! HUMANS?!

    (sarcasm.........)
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    israel duhhh- viva Palestine!!!
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    @high voltage
    a human right is a right of return ? okay then so do the Israelites have a right to return to there given land

    :israel:

    looks like you know too many big words and not much knowledge :P
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    Look, I want views/who started what and why, for my assignments on how USA and Israel have been affected when it comes to a mutual industry (oil) the affected oil prices,economy problems, terrorist attacks,etc. USA has had oil flucatuations from the wars and Israel wasn't going to get any oil from Arabs

    EDIT: Al Qaeda's ideology- not really about pro-Palestine-more about world domination:

    Wikipedia

    The radical Islamist movement in general and al-Qaeda in particular developed during the Islamic revival and Islamist movement of the last three decades of the 20th century, along with less extreme movements.
    Some have argued that "without the writings" of Islamic author and thinker Sayyid Qutb, "al-Qaeda would not have existed."[61] Qutb preached that because of the lack of sharia law, the Muslim world was no longer Muslim, having reverted to pre-Islamic ignorance known as jahiliyyah.
    To restore Islam, he said a vanguard movement of righteous Muslims was needed to establish "true Islamic states", implement sharia, and rid the Muslim world of any non-Muslim influences, such as concepts like socialism and nationalism. Enemies of Islam in Qutb's view included "treacherous Orientalists"[62] and "world Jewry", who plotted "conspiracies" and "wicked[ly]" opposed Islam.
    In the words of Mohammed Jamal Khalifa, a close college friend of bin Laden:
    Islam is different from any other religion; it's a way of life. We [Khalifa and bin Laden] were trying to understand what Islam has to say about how we eat, who we marry, how we talk. We read Sayyid Qutb. He was the one who most affected our generation.[63]
    Qutb had an even greater influence on bin Laden's mentor and another leading member of al-Qaeda,[64] Ayman al-Zawahiri. Zawahiri's uncle and maternal family patriarch, Mafouz Azzam, was Qutb's student, then protégé, then personal lawyer, and finally executor of his estate—one of the last people to see Qutb before his execution. "Young Ayman al-Zawahiri heard again and again from his beloved uncle Mahfouz about the purity of Qutb's character and the torment he had endured in prison."[65] Zawahiri paid homage to Qutb in his work Knights under the Prophet's Banner.[66]
    One of the most powerful of Qutb's ideas was that many who said they were Muslims were not. Rather, they were apostates. That not only gave jihadists "a legal loophole around the prohibition of killing another Muslim," but made "it a religious obligation to execute" these self-professed Muslims. These alleged apostates included leaders of Muslim countries, since they failed to enforce sharia law.[67]
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    (Original post by LondonBoy16)
    @high voltage
    a human right is a right of return ? okay then so do the Israelites have a right to return to there given land

    :israel:

    looks like you know too many big words and not much knowledge :P
    Why is palestine the jews' given land and not the palestinians?...because it says so in a religious book. That's it. Palestinians have been living in palestine for as long as the jews. In fact, the probably have more rights to be there. Why? first of all the arabs settled in the levant before the jews: the jews were originally nomadic. And secondly, why does a jew whose family emigarted 500 years ago have more right than a palestinian whose been there the wole time?
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    no jews have been there before they have had there temple there and there entire kingdom
    do you know where the name palestine comes from? why it was named that? after whom it was taken from? Jews have had a constant presence in Judea and Samaria for Thousands of years
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    (Original post by ronki23)
    Ok, last few questions:

    Do the Arabs still care about the Temple Mount even if they don't care about the people?

    I also hear of British-Zionist conflicts during WWII-that doesn't sound too good on the Jews side,especially as the latter were helped by the USA. Still, if they were fighting for their rights that was still more acceptable than flying planes into towers full of civilians.
    What do you think of the British-Zionist conflict as it overcomplicates things!!

    And then there are these:

    http://www.youtube.com/v/I73UtRRSbqg&hl=en_US&feature

    http://www.youtube.com/v/9oeB3QhX2RI&hl=en_US&feature

    http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHART...t_zionism.html


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Zionism
    http://www.nkusa.org/
    http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/

    http://www.youtube.com/v/mR-jMY9e5wI&hl=en_US&feature

    http://www.arabsforisrael.com/

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_...ters_of_Israel
    Yes, Muslims (not just Arabs) care about the Temple Mount (which they call haram al-sharif) even if they don't care about the people.

    The Israelis view the British-Zionist conflict as an anti-Imperial struggle for freedom from the British Empire. A major Zionist grievance against the British was that they were not doing anything to stop Arab attacks on Jewish villages.

    Jewish anti-Zionists are very interesting. They generally come in two flavours. The first youtube link shows the extreme-left variety who think the West, in which Jews are included, are the evil aggressors in everything. This is often based on an extremely flawed understanding of history. The other variety, which is represented in some of the other links, are extreme radical ultra-orthodox Jews who hate Israel because it is free and secular, and want it to be more like Iran. When I was in Jerusalem I saw them attacking cars for driving on Shabbos, and spitting on girls and women they thought were inappropriately dressed. I have nothing but contempt for either kind of anti-Zionist Jew.
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    (Original post by smithsmith)
    Not saying Palestine is perfect but

    Israel is the WORST 100%, genocide and war crimes they have committed when they created the state of Israel,

    watch this for more insight on the creation of the state of Israel and atrocities committed by Israel http://www.channel4.com/programmes/the-promise
    That is a fictional drama. Not the kind of thing you should be linking to in an academic discussion, unless the discussion is on how things are portrayed, rather than on what actually happened.
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    (Original post by LondonBoy16)
    no jews have been there before they have had there temple there and there entire kingdom
    do you know where the name palestine comes from? why it was named that? after whom it was taken from? Jews have had a constant presence in Judea and Samaria for Thousands of years
    So you're telling me that the Jews were the only people in the levant the whole time? That arabs were not there at all before? So where did these arab palestinians come from, the ground? There was a kingdom....5000 years ago. Get over it. Many empires have come and gone. It is as much the arabs' land as much as it is the jews'. Learn to SHARE. FYI, just because u had a kingdom there 5000 years ago, it doesn't strip away the rights of the Palestinians to live in the land they have been living in for thousands of years, especially compared to a family who have been living in europe for the past 500 years.

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