Hey there Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free

Who do you feel most sorry for in this story? Transgender? "Victim" of lies?

Announcements Posted on
    • 8 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ohirome)
    No, but it IS damaging to refuse to acknowledge the fact that he might be transgendered, instead focusing on a baseless theory that he is in fact psychologically damaged in some way. The article is just another in a long run of transphobic pieces in the national press, so there is an obvious level of bias in favour of the 'victim'. I do totally sympathise with the girl, however that is lessened by their need to run to the press and announce it to the world which really wasn't necessary, nor does it show theres a great deal of upset on behalf of the family. Its just another case of The Sun/Daily Mails recent trans witch hunt.
    Baseless? The article mentions the prolonged period of depression, coupled with the fact she began dressing as a boy after a traumatic experience, I'd say your assumptions are baseless and there are clear signs of being 'psychologically damaged'. This child needs psychological help to deal with what's happened.
    • 2 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by silent ninja)
    Baseless? The article mentions the prolonged period of depression, coupled with the fact she began dressing as a boy after a traumatic experience, I'd say your assumptions are baseless and there are clear signs of being 'psychologically damaged'. This child needs psychological help to deal with what's happened.
    Again, pinch of salt. We can agree to disagree.
    • 7 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ohirome)
    No, but it IS damaging to refuse to acknowledge the fact that he might be transgendered, instead focusing on a baseless theory that he is in fact psychologically damaged in some way. The article is just another in a long run of transphobic pieces in the national press, so there is an obvious level of bias in favour of the 'victim'. I do totally sympathise with the girl, however that is lessened by their need to run to the press and announce it to the world which really wasn't necessary, nor does it show theres a great deal of upset on behalf of the family. Its just another case of The Sun/Daily Mails recent trans witch hunt.




    He identifies as male therefore its only right to extend an ounce of decency and respect. Using 'pretending' implies that there was something malicious going on when it quite clearly was far from that.
    I'm not going to call a giraffe an elephant to save their feelings. She is a girl, she can call herself whatever she likes, but I find it stupid to talk about her on a forum saying she's a boy. She isn't. She is a female.

    How would you like me to describe it rather than 'pretending'? She is a girl, put on boys clothes, told other girls she was a boy to have intimate relations with her. That is pretending to be a boy. That is also lying and manipulating others.

    She should have learnt by now the difference between right & wrong, she should be truthful to herself and others.

    Whether it deserves a custodial sentence, I can't comment as I don't know how she now feels about her behaviour, but assuming she realises it was wrong, then I would think it is a matter between her and the girl(s) she lied to.
    • 21 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    That girl's parents are idiots.
    • 2 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Steezy)
    I'm not going to call a giraffe an elephant to save their feelings. She is a girl, she can call herself whatever she likes, but I find it stupid to talk about her on a forum saying she's a boy. She isn't. She is a female.

    How would you like me to describe it rather than 'pretending'? She is a girl, put on boys clothes, told other girls she was a boy to have intimate relations with her. That is pretending to be a boy. That is also lying and manipulating others.

    She should have learnt by now the difference between right & wrong, she should be truthful to herself and others.

    Whether it deserves a custodial sentence, I can't comment as I don't know how she now feels about her behaviour, but assuming she realises it was wrong, then I would think it is a matter between her and the girl(s) she lied to.
    OK, your idea of sexual identity is pretty concrete, so theres not really any point in going there.
    • 7 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ohirome)
    OK, your idea of sexual identity is pretty concrete, so theres not really any point in going there.
    I don't mean to be stubborn but sexual identity is a different thing entirely from physical identity. One deals with the mentality of a person, the other deals with the physicality of a person.

    Physically (which is how a person's gender is decided), she is a girl.

    Mentally she can be or do whatever she wants. But with every action, there is a reaction. So a person must choose wisely (i.e. not breaking laws or damaging othrs), to avoid negative reactions to their chosen actions.

    Each to their own (because I purely don't care that much about random people), but I will be referring to her as a female, because, based on historical and present language norms, a person gender is decided physically, not mentally.
    • 0 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ohirome)
    Since when has tranny ever been used about gay men and women? There are many uses for some words, but we know as decent human beings not to use them. Don't try and justify your ignorance with even more ignorance.
    (Original post by Anna_Karenina)
    Since when has the word trannie been offensive!! I was just warned for it! The only context I have ever used it and heard it been used is akin to the term gay or lesbian! :eek:
    See the part in bold? He's saying he has only ever seen it in the same context as a gay person being called gay and a lesbian being called a lesbian, not gays/lesbians being called trannies. And I have to agree with him - how on earth is tranny an offensive term?!
    • 3 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    To be honest, I feel a bit sorry for both of them but Matt should have realised that once they actually met there would be no way to hide the fact that his sex is female and that it would cause problems. Not everyone is pansexual and he should have realised that.
    • 2 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Steezy)
    I don't mean to be stubborn but sexual identity is a different thing entirely from physical identity. One deals with the mentality of a person, the other deals with the physicality of a person.

    Physically (which is how a person's gender is decided), she is a girl.

    Mentally she can be or do whatever she wants. But with every action, there is a reaction. So a person must choose wisely (i.e. not breaking laws or damaging othrs), to avoid negative reactions to their chosen actions.

    Each to their own (because I purely don't care that much about random people), but I will be referring to her as a female, because, based on historical and present language norms, a person gender is decided physically, not mentally.
    No I do agree, however running to the press sort of destroys the apparent emotional stress claims coming from the girls family. As for Matt, well again we'll have to disagree.

    (Original post by Logi)
    See the part in bold? He's saying he has only ever seen it in the same context as a gay person being called gay and a lesbian being called a lesbian, not gays/lesbians being called trannies. And I have to agree with him - how on earth is tranny an offensive term?!
    Ok, thats fair enough. Tranny is an offensive term and has been for as long as I can remember. Its a derogatory word, full stop.
    • 1 follower
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    Pretty strange article, I imagine the DM loved that one. Honestly, I think Emily will get over it. Admittedly it'll be harder now she's got her face plastered across the internet crying 'victim! victim!' and people will really wonder what she sought to get out of going to the police/papers. I feel very sorry for Chloe/Matt, we are in no place to judge whether this was brought on by an extreme episode of depression or whether he does just wish to live and be, a he. At 16 I can't imagine that's very easy, especially when your grandma will apparently psh psh it away and blame it on grief (though, again, no doubt her words were twisted).

    More interesting I'd say was that Gemma Barker story the article mentions, that was verging on insane. How could anyone be stupid enough to enter into a relationship with someone who would only let you see their chin?!
    • 3 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ohirome)
    Since when has tranny ever been used about gay men and women? There are many uses for some words, but we know as decent human beings not to use them. Don't try and justify your ignorance with even more ignorance.

    So blinded in your desperation to be offended you fail to comprehend what I was saying.

    Trannie has always been used at least as far as my experience goes to describe a transgender person in the same way that the term gay is used to describe a homosexual person.

    I can condense into bullet points if you would like someting simpler?
    • 2 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Anna_Karenina)
    So blinded in your desperation to be offended you fail to comprehend what I was saying.

    Trannie has always been used at least as far as my experience goes to describe a transgender person in the same way that the term gay is used to describe a homosexual person.

    I can condense into bullet points if you would like someting simpler?
    No no, that'll suffice. Well done on being a patronising a**hole though. That doesn't distract from the fact that you're an ignorant bigot, but great attempt anyway.
    • 3 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ohirome)
    No no, that'll suffice. Well done on being a patronising a**hole though. That doesn't distract from the fact that you're an ignorant bigot, but great attempt anyway.

    I have never come across anybody who takes such glee in being offended. :rofl2:
    • 0 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ohirome)
    Ok, thats fair enough. Tranny is an offensive term and has been for as long as I can remember. Its a derogatory word, full stop.
    So what is the acceptable terminology then?

    Now I know how my nan felt when she called a special needs kid a ******* (previously a medical term). It's difficult to keep up with this stuff.

    Not equating... whatever the correct term is for trans people... with special needs people btw before anyone gets offended. Not that there's anything wrong with being special needs either. Jesus this is a ****ing mine field
    • 1 follower
    Online

    ReputationRep:
    I suppose there are two possibilities here.

    One, that Matt is an invented persona by a teenage girl. In that case, inexcusable.

    The second, which I think is much more likely, is that Matt is a transsexual male who is not yet socially or physically male (in real life) and therefore lives out his maleness online. I think the relationship was genuine to him as well, hence why he bottled the nerve to meet up in person.

    I'm gay and, in LGBT spaces, come across a few transgender people who could be described as similar to Matt. Still physically female, family don't know etc etc., but desperate to be accepted as male and so present themselves as such where they can. I can see how this sort of thing can happen, especially online where a trans boy can finally be seen as 'any other guy'-- it would be tempting in that case for him not to say anything about his transness at all, as wrong that that may be when feelings of another person are involved.

    But, this article is typical Daily Fail trash and, of course, we are led to believe he is a predatory lesbian, but that side of the story really doesn't add up for me. Poor journalism.
    • 14 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    While I will agree that Matt should probably have divulged the fact that he is sexually female I'm not sure that I see anything criminal in his actions. Morally questionable maybe. Looking at it from his perspective he was talking to someone he truly felt a connection with and divulging the information could have been damaging to that growing relationship. So one could see why he wouldn't want to necessarily talk about it, especially considering the environment he is growing up in.

    Also as many people have said...I find it hard to sympathize with someone who claims to be emotionally distraught and completely embarrassed but is going to the press about this. It seems contradictory and more like a scheme for attention.
    • 2 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Anna_Karenina)
    I have never come across anybody who takes such glee in being offended. :rofl2:
    Whereas you are clearly mightily proud of your ignorance. Pat yourself on the back, buddy!
    • 0 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    I'm gonna warn you guys now, this is probably going to grind a lot of people's gears.

    Emily and her family sound like b****es, and completly over reacting, so I have no sympathy for them.

    But Matt betrayed her trust, and it IS his fault - he sould have told her the truth. The fact is, if I went online, met someone, and when we met up found out they had lied about something (like I dunno, he's black not white, or vise versa) then I'm gonna be pissed.
    And it is reasonable to be. If this person "feels white, not black" so he goes round saying he's white doesn't give him an excuse. Matt, regardless of being male, is physically female, and he shouldn't lie about it, no matter how "nervous" he is about his gender. No excuse, and everyone on here saying "aww he's just a sweety confused about his gender! Transgender is so demonised it's wrong" is patronising and deters people like Matt from taking the responsibility of his transgender condition (I'm not sure condition is the right word?)

    TL;DR, Matt shouldn't have lied and Emily and her family are overreacting.
    • 2 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    Wait, someone's being charged for lying on the internet?


    We're all ****ed.

Reply

Submit reply

Register

Thanks for posting! You just need to create an account in order to submit the post
  1. this can't be left blank
    that username has been taken, please choose another Forgotten your password?

    this is what you'll be called on TSR

  2. this can't be left blank
    this email is already registered. Forgotten your password?

    never shared and never spammed

  3. this can't be left blank

    6 characters or longer with both numbers and letters is safer

  4. this can't be left empty
    your full birthday is required
  1. By joining you agree to our Ts and Cs, privacy policy and site rules

  2. Slide the button to the right to create your account

    Slide to join now Processing…

Updated: March 20, 2012
New on TSR

Talk about SQA results day

Join the chat ahead of grades coming out on Tuesday

Article updates
Useful resources
Reputation gems:
You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.