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Who do you feel most sorry for in this story? Transgender? "Victim" of lies?

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    (Original post by Bellissima)
    the comments that are usually left behind (don't know if you read about zach, the 5 year old transgender who was a girl but sexually a boy)... make my blood boil, so ignorant.
    I don't go near the comments on those sites for that very reason. Its a breeding ground for our countries most ignorant of fools. I did indeed read that and was involved in quite the discussion about it on here. Whilst I totally understand some peoples confusion or lack of 'tolerance' about this subject, its no excuse for being so incredibly disgusting about it.
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    (Original post by Bellissima)
    i don't know... i completely agree that matt IS a guy.. but at the same time his sex is still female... so while he wasn't lying about being matt, he had lied by omission about female body.. which is quite a big thing.. because not everyone is so pansexual about these things which you also have to accept.
    True, but on the other hand, is it important what he's got in his pants unless they're going to have sex? I remember watching this documentary on transgender kids and an 8-yr old boy who was born a girl had a girlfriend who didn't know. If that boy had told his girlfriend you can imagine the upset and trauma it would have caused.
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    (Original post by Bellissima)
    i don't know... i completely agree that matt IS a guy.. but at the same time his sex is still female... so while he wasn't lying about being matt, he had lied by omission about female body.. which is quite a big thing.. because not everyone is so pansexual about these things which you also have to accept.
    I think until you get to a physical relationship, that doesn't need to be disclosed.

    Lets pretend that you are a guy with a weird penis. It means that sex is very difficult, because this condition you've got has completely screwed up your genitals.

    At what point do you tell someone interested in you about your issue? The moment she shows any sign of interest in you? Interrupting her just as she's about to kiss you? When?

    I would argue that the time is "before sexual contact". And that's the rule I would use for transgendered people too. Any 'deception' over the body before that is allowable because it doesn't even involve the body!
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    (Original post by ohirome)
    I don't go near the comments on those sites for that very reason. Its a breeding ground for our countries most ignorant of fools. I did indeed read that and was involved in quite the discussion about it on here. Whilst I totally understand some peoples confusion or lack of 'tolerance' about this subject, its no excuse for being so incredibly disgusting about it.
    my gran was ignorant of it, she didn't understand at all, didn't know about transgender... we were watching a news programme and that lady, Jane, who was dad to the teenage girl and transitioned to female.. came on.. i explained it to her what transgender was and she was fine with it.. there's no need for all the nastiness and agression.. just wrong. people are people. ignorance isn't an excuse.
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    overall i do feel sorry for emily, particularly as matt isn't fully transgendered, i can see why she would feel deceived.
    however, i cant believe the reaction of the daily mail readers there was nothing criminal about what he did at all, and definitely nothing he should be punished for. "possibly a criminal sex offender" my arse.
    people deceive each other on a daily basis....., its not a good basis for a relationship but i can see why matt did it.
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    (Original post by syrettd)
    True, but on the other hand, is it important what he's got in his pants unless they're going to have sex? I remember watching this documentary on transgender kids and an 8-yr old boy who was born a girl had a girlfriend who didn't know. If that boy had told his girlfriend you can imagine the upset and trauma it would have caused.
    i think so because they're 14 so will probably want sex.. or at least sex will be the end result...
    if not they will be kissing etc. and if emily is turned off by the same sex then the thought of kissing a female, to her, would be offputting.. she would eventually find out and the more she did with matt before finding out the more upset she would feel.

    and without that physical contact it's not really a romantic relationship..
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    (Original post by lightburns)
    I think until you get to a physical relationship, that doesn't need to be disclosed.

    Lets pretend that you are a guy with a weird penis. It means that sex is very difficult, because this condition you've got has completely screwed up your genitals.

    At what point do you tell someone interested in you about your issue? The moment she shows any sign of interest in you? Interrupting her just as she's about to kiss you? When?

    I would argue that the time is "before sexual contact". And that's the rule I would use for transgendered people too. Any 'deception' over the body before that is allowable because it doesn't even involve the body!
    i don't really agree there's a difference between having sex with a vagina and having sex with a difficult penis.. i think you also have to consider the feelings of the other person in the relationship... just be open.
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    (Original post by noisy06)
    It's all Emily's fault. She decided to meet a stranger online and in person and to trust that person. There should be no hope of criminal conviction for mat/chloe. It was not legally binding for matt to tell the truth. If emily can take matt to court for that lie, could I take many people who have lied to me to court?! The whole thing is just BS and emily and her parents should be asked to pay full court fees. This is appalling.
    While I am undecided on the issue in the OP, your arguement could be applied that anyone who meets a paedophile decided to trust the person and meet them, so it is all their fault...

    Edit: My views:
    The problem is that in general, sexual attraction is based on person x liking either male part or female parts. Matt didn't have male parts. Matt should have been honest up-front, although seeing the reactions, I can understand why he didn't.
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    Actually I think deceiving someone into believing you're someone else to have sex with them is rape (I know this particular situation didn't get that far, but Matt is on shaky legal ground there).

    I feel sorry for both of them, but if I had to pick one then I'd say Emily. Whilst Matt clearly has some problems that need to be worked through, ultimately he was the one lying to Emily. Whilst he may perceive himself as Matt and not Chloe, the fact remains that he is (biologically) female and tricked this girl into thinking he's a biological male. Emily didn't do anything wrong.
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    (Original post by rmhumphries)
    While I am undecided on the issue in the OP, your arguement could be applied that anyone who meets a paedophile decided to trust the person and meet them, so it is all their fault...
    Yeah I agree, so we are supposed to assume that children from the ages of 5 to 16(or whenever they are online chatting to strangers) are fully equipped to know when they are being deceived and manipulated, is that what noise is saying??:eek:
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    (Original post by lightburns)
    I think until you get to a physical relationship, that doesn't need to be disclosed.

    Lets pretend that you are a guy with a weird penis. It means that sex is very difficult, because this condition you've got has completely screwed up your genitals.

    At what point do you tell someone interested in you about your issue? The moment she shows any sign of interest in you? Interrupting her just as she's about to kiss you? When?

    I would argue that the time is "before sexual contact". And that's the rule I would use for transgendered people too. Any 'deception' over the body before that is allowable because it doesn't even involve the body!
    Just because you aren't having a physical relationship doesn't mean you can't have an emotional one. If you'd been dating someone for a year, believing they were X and then when you finally decide you love them and trust them enough to get intimate with them it'd turned out they'd lied, that'd be pretty devastating, and I imagine that's how Emily is feeling.

    Obviously the first date isn't the place to be having this sort of discussion, but Matt was chatting to Emily for nearly a year. There was plenty of time to bring this up, and if he didn't want to be honest with the girl he professed to love, then he should have let her down gently.
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    (Original post by Lil Piranha)
    Actually I think deceiving someone into believing you're someone else to have sex with them is rape (I know this particular situation didn't get that far, but Matt is on shaky legal ground there).

    I feel sorry for both of them, but if I had to pick one then I'd say Emily. Whilst Matt clearly has some problems that need to be worked through, ultimately he was the one lying to Emily. Whilst he may perceive himself as Matt and not Chloe, the fact remains that he is (biologically) female and tricked this girl into thinking he's a biological male. Emily didn't do anything wrong.
    i think as soon as emily saw that sexually matt was not "all there" things would have stopped pretty quickly.. if matt had then forced emily to have sex with him (not sure how).. then it would have been rape
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    (Original post by Lil Piranha)
    Just because you aren't having a physical relationship doesn't mean you can't have an emotional one. If you'd been dating someone for a year, believing they were X and then when you finally decide you love them and trust them enough to get intimate with them it'd turned out they'd lied, that'd be pretty devastating, and I imagine that's how Emily is feeling.

    Obviously the first date isn't the place to be having this sort of discussion, but Matt was chatting to Emily for nearly a year. There was plenty of time to bring this up, and if he didn't want to be honest with the girl he professed to love, then he should have let her down gently.
    Yeah, that's true. Matt should have foreseen this happening and talked about it online I think before meeting.

    In the situation that things moved fast - someone came up in a bar or something and immediately went for a kiss, a transperson shouldn't have to push them away to explain first. The universal rule for pre-ops should be talk-before-sex.

    But yeah, thinking about it, I agree in Matt's case. For that long a non-physical relationship, he should have brought up that he was still currently living completely female. It also makes a difference that he will be pre-op. For a post-op person, it isn't so necessary. If your body used to look like the other sex, it shouldn't be so much of an issue. If your body still looks like the other sex, that's now getting into some dodgy grounds that means you need to tell the other person earlier.
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    (Original post by lightburns)
    Yeah, that's true. Matt should have foreseen this happening and talked about it online I think before meeting.

    In the situation that things moved fast - someone came up in a bar or something and immediately went for a kiss, a transperson shouldn't have to push them away to explain first. The universal rule for pre-ops should be talk-before-sex.

    But yeah, thinking about it, I agree in Matt's case. For that long a non-physical relationship, he should have brought up that he was still currently living completely female. It also makes a difference that he will be pre-op. For a post-op person, it isn't so necessary. If your body used to look like the other sex, it shouldn't be so much of an issue. If your body still looks like the other sex, that's now getting into some dodgy grounds that means you need to tell the other person earlier.
    Fixed. Also, it's unlikely that two 14 year olds would have had sex anyway. They probably would have gone out for a few months and left it at that, had the girl's parents not been so intent on 'exposing' Matt.
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    Why was a 14 year old looking for a boyfriend online? She's lucky it wasn't a 56year old peadophile, just an confused transgender. If I was her parent I would be more worried that my FOURTEEN year old daughter is ONLINE DATING... wtf!!!
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    Jesus Christ, i have seen some milking in news papers before but this deserves a medal.

    Emotionally distressed? She is a 14 year old girl who just had a bad relationship experience of course she is going to be emotionally distressed, just like every other 14 year old girl who has a bad relationship experience. But she is not to emotionally distressed to share her "ordeal" with the daily mail ofc

    The reality is a 15 year old girl was having trouble dealing with her feelings/emotions and she did something stupid by pretending to be a boy online and getting into a relationship without informing the other party of the situation. she didn't sexually assault her (comparing her to Gemma Barker is pathetic) and according to the parents they screened all her emails for sexual content and there was none so there is no reason to even assume this was sexually motivated.

    ‘I have no idea what is going on in this girl’s head, but she must need some form of psychological help if she has to pretend to be a boy.

    Well its good to know you decided to help with this by crying to a tabloid paper. Bravo bitch bravo enjoy whatever they gave you for it, you really earned it.

    No i don't feel even remotely sorry for the "victim" or her parents, any empathy has gone out of the window with this despicable attempt to milk and expose a situation that will inevitably cause more harm to a girl who may already be suffering from some serious problems.
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    (Original post by Lil Piranha)
    Actually I think deceiving someone into believing you're someone else to have sex with them is rape (I know this particular situation didn't get that far, but Matt is on shaky legal ground there).
    Really? How far does that rule go? If a guy chats up a woman in a bar and claims to be a doctor to get her into bed, is that rape? How does it define "someone else"? Is it purely about the name?
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    (Original post by Psyk)
    Really? How far does that rule go? If a guy chats up a woman in a bar and claims to be a doctor to get her into bed, is that rape? How does it define "someone else"? Is it purely about the name?
    Not so much a situation like that, but something like this:

    http://jezebel.com/5768119/man-accus...e-someone-else

    It's more like if a girl got drunk and climbed into one of her boyfriends housemates beds instead of her boyfriends, and said housemate took advantage of that. Obviously this situation in the OP is very different, but given Matt was trying to get close to Emily, even though they only kissed, it is possible that there's some form of legal issue there. (I'm not a law student by the way, I'm just going on things I've read previously.)
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    (Original post by rmhumphries)
    While I am undecided on the issue in the OP, your arguement could be applied that anyone who meets a paedophile decided to trust the person and meet them, so it is all their fault...

    Edit: My views:
    The problem is that in general, sexual attraction is based on person x liking either male part or female parts. Matt didn't have male parts. Matt should have been honest up-front, although seeing the reactions, I can understand why he didn't.
    Yes, it is their fault. If someone decides to meet a stranger who turns out to be a pedo then it is their fault. Of course if the stranger decides to rape/sexually molest or whatnot then that is a different story entirely. But the act of meeting a stranger is solely the responsibility of the one who's done it voluntarily.
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    (Original post by noisy06)
    Yes, it is their fault. If someone decides to meet a stranger who turns out to be a pedo then it is their fault. Of course if the stranger decides to rape/sexually molest or whatnot then that is a different story entirely. But the act of meeting a stranger is solely the responsibility of the one who's done it voluntarily.

    that's wrong, it is the paedophiles fault. they are very manipulative and sly... it's not like they just randomly send a message and say "oioi, fancy meeting up with me "... it can take them months... months full of compliments.. and they specifically target those with low self esteem, those who are lonely, thos who are upset... easy targets basically.
    young people are easily influenced and especially if they have low confidence etc. being showered with compliments will make them easy to mould.

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