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Plan B: 'Chav is a derogatory phrase'

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    (Original post by ArtGoblin)
    The word 'chav' is rarely applied to a middle class person. It may be occasionally, but in general it is used by middle class people to differentiate themselves from working class people. It is a way of saying "our culture is superior to yours" by lumping certain clothes, music and activities with anti-social and possibly illegal behaviour. Most poor people will be seen as chavs. Think of the most deprived estate in your town/city. I bet the majority of them fit the 'chav' stereotype. I find it difficult to believe that people can't see the connection between class and the labelling of chavs when there is such a strong correlation between those seen as chavs and economic deprivation.
    chav\not=poor

    Just because lots of poor people are chave, does not mean that they all fulfill that poisonous stereotype (which does exist where I live).
    I think it is you being unfair on poor people by tarring all of them with the same brush
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    (Original post by rafimax)
    chav\not=poor
    In the eyes of the majority of the middle class it is.
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    (Original post by rafimax)
    chav\not=poor

    Just because lots of poor people are chave, does not mean that they all fulfill that poisonous stereotype (which does exist where I live).
    I think it is you being unfair on poor people by tarring all of them with the same brush
    Exactly.

    (Original post by Besakt)
    In the eyes of the majority of the middle class it is.
    Yes, because the Guardian and other rags keep telling them it is.
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    (Original post by rafimax)
    chav\not=poor

    Just because lots of poor people are chave, does not mean that they all fulfill that poisonous stereotype (which does exist where I live).
    I think it is you being unfair on poor people by tarring all of them with the same brush
    Hilarious that someone who thinks that chav is an acceptable word to use is accusing me of being 'unfair to poor people'. Nope, I accept that few of them actually show the sort of behaviour attributed to 'chavs' but all the people who dress a similar way are accused of it. There's nothing wrong with the way the dress or act - they're just subscribing to a class identity, like everyone else. Middle class people do the same, but the characteristics associated with being middle class are positive. When it comes to the upper classes it starts to get negative again but only because they're such a minority.
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    (Original post by ArtGoblin)
    The word 'chav' is rarely applied to a middle class person. It may be occasionally, but in general it is used by middle class people to differentiate themselves from working class people. It is a way of saying "our culture is superior to yours" by lumping certain clothes, music and activities with anti-social and possibly illegal behaviour. Most poor people will be seen as chavs. Think of the most deprived estate in your town/city. I bet the majority of them fit the 'chav' stereotype. I find it difficult to believe that people can't see the connection between class and the labelling of chavs when there is such a strong correlation between those seen as chavs and economic deprivation.
    Not really. Most of the time I've heard the term used, its not intended to be aimed at a person(s) income, but rather their personality and behavior. It just so happens that most people who fit the characteristics of a 'chav' are from what you call the 'working class'. I would say I go to a middle-class-ist school, and yet the term is used all the time among us against one another. The term may historically be used in the context of 'rich v poor', but I honestly don't think thats the case nowadays, espciailly among young people.
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    I think what Plan B is getting at here is the way the word chav is used to describe people living in council housing. When the term first became popular it was used to describe people as "council housing associated vermin" or "council housed and violent" both of which are incredibly offensive and to be honest I agree with what Plan B is trying to do here.
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    (Original post by Piko_Piko)
    The difference is: you can't change your race or sex, nor should anyone make fun of race/sex given that neither are inferior.
    Chavs are clearly inferior,and it's not even about where you were born. - eg. if someone had an education or dressed well or behaved well, even if they were dirt poor they could never, ever be referred to as a chav.
    I mean, of course the word's derogatory, but there are good reasons for that.
    In what way are you "superior" to anyone? You dont know their situation, you cant judge them based on the way the look, get a grip, you stuck up cow.
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    I had written a long comment that I was about to post, but then I realised that it will do nothing but annoy anyone who believes 'chavs' are the scum of the earth and it's their own fault. That is not what I want to do.

    'Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, “Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother or sister who sins against me? Up to seven times?”
    Jesus answered, “I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times.'

    Now, I'm not very religious but I think there are some bits of the bible that everyone should follow, this being one of them. Please take a walk in their shoes; growing up without the same kind of parenting as most of us have, growing up very angry at the people who seem to have luxurious easy lives, growing up with a massive stereotype overshadowing them. Then going to school and being punished because they aren't like everyone else, then they make friends with people who are the same as them but that leads them to more violence etc.

    This all started from a bad education system, clearly if we think we can fix the problem by sweeping it under the carpet then we have not been educated very well either.
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    (Original post by whyumadtho)
    What is wrong with wearing tracksuits?
    There is nothing 'wrong' per se, but they have an unfortunate stigma attached to them. I wear them sometimes, but only when I go out running, because of the stigma.
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    (Original post by Benniboi1)
    I had written a long comment that I was about to post, but then I realised that it will do nothing but annoy anyone who believes 'chavs' are the scum of the earth and it's their own fault. That is not what I want to do.

    'Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, “Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother or sister who sins against me? Up to seven times?”
    Jesus answered, “I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times.'

    Now, I'm not very religious but I think there are some bits of the bible that everyone should follow, this being one of them. Please take a walk in their shoes; growing up without the same kind of parenting as most of us have, growing up very angry at the people who seem to have luxurious easy lives, growing up with a massive stereotype overshadowing them. Then going to school and being punished because they aren't like everyone else, then they make friends with people who are the same as them but that leads them to more violence etc.

    This all started from a bad education system, clearly if we think we can fix the problem by sweeping it under the carpet then we have not been educated very well either.
    Excuse me, but I've had to live in council housing in a rubbish area and go to pretty rubbish state schools, just like they did. And they aren't 'punished' at school at all. They get bucketfuls of sympathy because of their 'hard life' and the fact they may not have a dad or whatever it is. I wasn't parented very well by my father either (to the extent that I plan to cut off all contact once I leave home), but would it be excusable for me to smash shop windows and mug people on the street?
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    If anyone wants proof that chav =/= poor, look at Katie Price / TOWIE / Made in Chelsea. They're like the Kings and Queens of Chav.
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    So instead of chavs, we just refer to them as the old word of "hooligans" ? After all, they are pretty much one and the same. No one is born a chav, they choose to be a chav
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    (Original post by najinaji)
    Excuse me, but I've had to live in council housing in a rubbish area and go to pretty rubbish state schools, just like they did. And they aren't 'punished' at school at all. They get bucketfuls of sympathy because of their 'hard life' and the fact they may not have a dad or whatever it is. I wasn't parented very well by my father either (to the extent that I plan to cut off all contact once I leave home), but would it be excusable for me to smash shop windows and mug people on the street?
    They may not be punished as much as they should, but at my school they were still had a very hard time of it, for things they didn't think were that bad.

    Clearly you know the difference between right and wrong, but anyone who does smash up a shop obviously doesn't understand (hasn't been taught) the difference, and then it's not excusable but I can understand it.

    Didn't mean to make it sound like anyone from bad circumstances end's up like that, it's the minority not the majority
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    (Original post by Benniboi1)
    Clearly you know the difference between right and wrong, but anyone who does smash up a shop obviously doesn't understand (hasn't been taught) the difference, and then it's not excusable but I can understand it.
    Not always the case. they just think they can get away with it. People hardly ever do bad things because they don't know it's a bad thing to do.

    Didn't mean to make it sound like anyone from bad circumstances end's up like that, it's the minority not the majority
    Well then why is it that the rest of us can behave and they can't?
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    i can see why it is........
    chav is pretty much associated with the type of clothes you wear, even though the whole encapsulating definition inclues antisocial behaviour......thus if you see somebody walking in the street, wearing trackies and hoody you'd most likely think they are a chav. however, this doesnt mean that said person is actually anti-social or not a nice person.

    however, whilst not all working-class people will dress like a chav, a large number probably do, the same way that a large majority of people at your privately educated sixth-form college will have side parted messy hair, and wear jack wills hoodies and uggs- its just nature.
    Thus i think it is unfair, to have the word chav as a description for people who behave thuggishly, because it is automatically associated with somebody working-class and trackies--if somebody is a thug, just call them a thug.
    i mean you can get anti-social preps cant you, but nobody calls them chavs?
    wasnt very well expressed but just my opinion anyway.
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    (Original post by najinaji)
    Not always the case. they just think they can get away with it. People hardly ever do bad things because they don't know it's a bad thing to do.


    Well then why is it that the rest of us can behave and they can't?
    I think there's a difference though, you or I wouldn't smash up a shop because we know that is someone's life and business we are ruining. For them, the effect it has on the person who own's the shop doesn't even come into their mind. There's many reason's why they would lash out like that though, for some it is an attention thing or they do it to get respect of people they know/their gang, because for them respect = power.

    We wouldn't do it because it's directly making someone else's life worse and in the long term it will make our own lives worse as well. For them, well, what do they have to lose?
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    (Original post by Besakt)
    How can you know whether somebody actively lives a life of claiming benefit just by looking at them?
    I'm not saying that is what I have the problem with. I have a problem with their hypocrisy.
    I was just pointing out that not working is a trait of the underclass, not working class.
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    (Original post by Lil Piranha)
    If anyone wants proof that chav =/= poor, look at Katie Price / TOWIE / Made in Chelsea. They're like the Kings and Queens of Chav.
    Exactly.

    It seems that only on TSR people immediately assume if someone uses the word 'chav' they definitely mean poor people.

    It's most certainly an attitude and image rather than their background.
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    (Original post by Greig_R)
    In what way are you "superior" to anyone? You dont know their situation, you cant judge them based on the way the look, get a grip, you stuck up cow.
    Why don't you get a grip? You reactionary oaf.

    She wasn't implying that she's superior; just that they can change those traits.
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    The word 'chav' has absolutely no positive connotation to it. Fitting, you might say, as a person fitting the criteria for such a description would almost certainly have nothing good to say about them.

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