[T-Toe]

(Original post by Bulbasaur)

Hmm, that's just it though, have they turned out fine? I might be making a mountain out of a molehill, but think about if it makes them likely to hit their child when they grow up. If so, then there's probably some issue there.
For a second let's assume that hitting a child is perfectly acceptable, why do it anyway?

Me getting beats ensured I never did it again. I have no animosity towards my mum at all. That was her way of disciplining me which was very much a cultural thing. If she'd emotionally punished me, well, that might have just damaged my psyche. As I've adapted to the British culture I wouldn't beat my child. I'd smack them gently on their bums when they're very young so that they're able to put two and two together. However I'd hate to have to persuade my child to do something.

Side note - How often do you see African/Asian children on shows like 'Supernanny' or 'World's strictest parents'?

[Bonged.]

(Original post by whyumadtho)
I'm being perfectly serious.

Rights are the prerogative of the rational. Those who are deemed irrational are subject to different rights than those who are deemed rational. I cannot call the police asking them to arrest and prosecute my child for criminal damage if it draws on the wall. My child cannot call the police asking them to arrest and prosecute me for false imprisonment if I ground it for a few days.

Are the police in the wrong for neglecting your right not to be physically violated when they arrest you? Whilst residing in the state/my custody, you implicitly cede your rights in favour of whatever rules and regulations the state/I set.

(You're sounding awfully... liberal. )

Didn't you already reply to that quote? Find someone else to talk to sometimes, seriously.

Yes that happens. No reason why that means parents should do it to their children.

[daisydaffodil]

Short sharp shock is infinitely better than the things I have been told from various relatives over the years. A slap doesn't stay with you for twenty years - being told that you are no longer wanted by your family or welcome in your relatives' houses never leaves you.

There's a difference though between a smack and a proper hit - I've had both and know the difference.

[Bonged.]

(Original post by T-Toe)
Me getting beats ensured I never did it again. I have no animosity towards my mum at all. That was her way of disciplining me, where is very much a cultural thing. If she'd emotionally punished me well that might have just damaged my psyche. As I've adapted to the British culture I wouldn't beat my child. I'd smack them gently on their bums when they're very young so that they're able to put two and two together. However I'd hate to have to persuade my child to do something.

Side note - How often do you see African/Asian children on shows like 'Supernanny' or 'World's strictest parents'?

Why, out of interest?

[Sean9001]

(Original post by cl_steele)
i personally think spanking is acceptable, if the child does somethig wrong then spank them ... they will thus assoicate said action with pain and hopefully not do it again.
of course dont batter the little bugger but the occassional hit i think is more effective than a bit of finger wagging or making them stand in a corner.

I personally think spanking is unacceptable, if the child does something wrong you still shouldn't spank them... Instead tell them off, confiscate something they adore, don't take them to their swimming/tennis/riding lesson. They will thus associate said action with being upset when their parents tell them off, losing something that makes them happy or not seeing their freinds.

The occassional hit is no better than battering the little bugger. As long as the telling off/confiscation/activity deprived is not wholly insignificant it would be just as effective as inflicting pain, but far more humane.

We are humans. Not animals.

[whyumadtho]

(Original post by Bonged.)
Cool.

What point are you actually making in regards to the topic of the thread?

I'm replying to your points. It's called 'debating'—it occasionally deviates from the OP's post.

Didn't you already reply to that quote? Find someone else to talk to sometimes, seriously.

My connection failed at the point of clicking 'Submit Reply' and I didn't realise it already went through.

Yes that happens. No reason why that means parents should do it to their children.

You clearly haven't elicited my point correctly: punishments must sometimes violate universal rights for the greater good.

[pipsi]

I disagree with spanking children, in my opinion it is used by parents who are too lazy the teach their child right from wrong through talking to them and punishing them through taking away a favourite toy, or grounding them or using the naughty step for a set length of time for younger children. A child will reflect more on what they've done wrong if they are grounded and miss something they wanted to do or don't get to play with their favourite toy for a set length of time.

I don't have any children of my own but have worked as a nanny for years, I have never once spanked a child and never plan to, I've seen children I've looked after being spanked by their parents and it's usually because they don't have any patience to sit the child down and explain their actions to them.

[Chronist]

(Original post by ROYP)
Would like someone who voted 'yes' to state their case...

"I can't explain why what you're doing is wrong so I'm just going to hit you"

[T-Toe]

(Original post by Bonged.)
Why, out of interest?

What are they actually learning? Should I be teaching them to be selfish? 'Do x and you will get a sweetie'. I want them to be able to make good, rational decisions on their own. I don't want them to expect a reward after going a good deed because the real world doesn't work out like that.

[Beebumble]

TBH I just think it shows lazy parenting and/or loss of control you can't be bothered to think of an appropriate punishment or just can't control your temper. On the rare occasions my parents smacked me I didn't think "oh I better not do that again" I was just like "what did I do to deserve that!" There are so many better ways to punish a child.

If you messed up at work you don't expect your boss to smack you. So why do it to someone just because they can't hit back?

[pipsi]

(Original post by daisydaffodil)
Short sharp shock is infinitely better than the things I have been told from various relatives over the years. A slap doesn't stay with you for twenty years - being told that you are no longer wanted by your family or welcome in your relatives' houses never leaves you.

There's a difference though between a smack and a proper hit - I've had both and know the difference.

Oh yes it does, and much longer....

[Bonged.]

(Original post by T-Toe)
What are they actually learning? Should I be teaching them to be selfish? 'Do x and you will get a sweetie'. I want them to be able to make good, rational decisions on their own. I don't want them to expect a reward after going a good deed because the real world doesn't work out like that.

Positive reinforcement? Sounds like a good idea. Human nature is at it's very core selfish. The best we can do is teach people that it is beneficial for them not to be selfish.

Attacking someone when they misbehave wouldn't make them more altruistic...

[Snagprophet]

I doubt any of the non-psychopathic beatings were done with no explanation leaving the child clueless.

[Ciccina]

Out of curiosity, has anyone of you guys got children? meaning, can anyone speak from 'hands-on experience'? (no pun intented )

[whyumadtho]

(Original post by Bonged.)
Positive reinforcement? Sounds like a good idea. Human nature is at it's very core selfish. The best we can do is teach people that it is beneficial for them not to be selfish.

Attacking someone when they misbehave wouldn't make them more altruistic...

And what happens when the stream of rewards dries up? Unaided positive reinforcement is just as bad as unaided negative reinforcement; when used with explanations, neither of them are necessarily better than the other.

Should the state give bursaries to people who follow the law?

[Beebumble]

(Original post by whyumadtho)

(You're sounding awfully... liberal. )

I find it funny how TSRers use liberal as an insult. Synonyms for liberal are: generous, bounteous, lavish, bountiful and free.

Oh I'm so offended by people thinking I'm generous and lavish.

[cl_steele]

(Original post by Sean9001)
I personally think spanking is unacceptable, if the child does something wrong you still shouldn't spank them... Instead tell them off, confiscate something they adore, don't take them to their swimming/tennis/riding lesson. They will thus associate said action with being upset when their parents tell them off, losing something that makes them happy or not seeing their freinds.

The occassional hit is no better than battering the little bugger. As long as the telling off/confiscation/activity deprived is not wholly insignificant it would be just as effective as inflicting pain, but far more humane.

We are humans. Not animals.

may i ask what is wrong with the occasional slap on the bum though? it doesnt do them any harm, i doubt it'll turn them into a people hating psychopath? whilst i do sympathise to your point of course i just see spanking as an extention on the list of reprocussions you have already mentioned for instance, whilst this applies to me im sure others may have experienced it, when i was young and did something wrong the only way to generally get through to me was a decent hiding ... taking my toys, depriving me of things i liked just made me more angry and resentful and thus more determined to give the proverbial finger to the man, as it were.
but of course dont get me wrong, i do disagree with child cruelty and that but i really dont see how you can attribute a little spanking to being 'inhumane' i mean we must consider that not all children are suspectable to being black mailed into obediance with the threat of taking away their teddy etc. some will act out even more against this and the only way to get through to them in this instance is to instill, excuse the phrasing i cant think of anything better, a sense of fear in to them ... if they punch the dog again for instance theyll be due a hiding, i think it works but i do respect your position

[funsongfactory]

Smacking children just teaches them that violence is acceptable to use when you don't like something, so it won't help anything imo.

[whyumadtho]

(Original post by Beebumble)
I find it funny how TSRers use liberal as an insult. Synonyms for liberal are: generous, bounteous, lavish, bountiful and free.

Oh I'm so offended by people thinking I'm generous and lavish.

That was just a prod at his constant use of the term in other debates I've has with him.

[Beebumble]

(Original post by Ciccina)
Out of curiosity, has anyone of you guys got children? meaning, can anyone speak from 'hands-on experience'? (no pun intented )

This being a student forum there'd be very few parents.
Whilst not a parent myself my views are based on what I've heard a lot of my friends who are parents say.

Us here may not have experience on being parents we've all been children.