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Should the UK bail out Greece?

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    As we trade with the EU, should we help bail it out?
    Reasons for and against helping the Euro please
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    I don't think it would be a good idea to do the equivalent of taxing everyone and then burning all the money, no.
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    Yet isn't it our responsibly as a member of the EU to help?
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    The only reason I see for the UK helping out Greece is that Greek people are having to suffer absolute destitution with no sign of recovery. I find it abhorrent that in modern Europe a country is degrading at lightening speed right before our very eyes. The Greek people have been screwed over by their ruling class and once again **** is rolling downhill as it always does.

    People can argue about the cost/benefit of the Euro etc but for me the idea of letting a people suffer in Europe is out of the question.
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    (Original post by Student5321)
    As we trade with the EU, should we help bail it out?
    Reasons for and against helping the Euro please
    What needs to be realised is that Greece is not being bailed out. The banks who own Greek debt are being bailed out, with the money routed through a puppet administration in Athens and the Greek people charged for the privilege. This money does not help Greece. It does not give us a country to trade with, but rather makes all the inhabitants of Greece poorer and less likely to trade with us.

    Greeks are being reduced to generational poverty, robbed of their democratic government and all to save some favoured banks and the faces of some Eurocrats who would rather see the citizens of Europe starve than admit that they made a mistake.

    We must not only refuse to pay for these Bailouts, we must do all we can to help the Greeks to leave the Euro, get back a democratically elected government and start exporting their way back to prosperity.
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    (Original post by Student5321)
    Yet isn't it our responsibly as a member of the EU to help?
    What makes you think the bailouts help Greece? They certainly help the French banks with greek debt, but Greece itself is suffering as a result.
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    (Original post by chrisawhitmore)
    What needs to be realised is that Greece is not being bailed out. The banks who own Greek debt are being bailed out, with the money routed through a puppet administration in Athens and the Greek people charged for the privilege. This money does not help Greece. It does not give us a country to trade with, but rather makes all the inhabitants of Greece poorer and less likely to trade with us.

    Greeks are being reduced to generational poverty, robbed of their democratic government and all to save some favoured banks and the faces of some Eurocrats who would rather see the citizens of Europe starve than admit that they made a mistake.

    We must not only refuse to pay for these Bailouts, we must do all we can to help the Greeks to leave the Euro, get back a democratically elected government and start exporting their way back to prosperity.
    This.
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    No I agree, however I am writing an essay and need to provide reasons for and against... anyone have any ideas as to why the UK should help the EU/Greece in general?
    Thanks for all you comments everyone!
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    (Original post by Student5321)
    No I agree, however I am writing an essay and need to provide reasons for and against... anyone have any ideas as to why the UK should help the EU/Greece in general?
    Thanks for all you comments everyone!
    Why? It sure as **** isn't helping us.
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    (Original post by Student5321)
    No I agree, however I am writing an essay and need to provide reasons for and against... anyone have any ideas as to why the UK should help the EU/Greece in general?
    Thanks for all you comments everyone!
    Ah, well, in terms of your essay you could use the standard arguments that the pro-Eu camp has been trotting out for years, in that the UK does a very large amount of its trade with the EU, and so a failing Greek economy will negatively impact the overall EU economy, with knock on effects beyond loss of direct trade with Greece (French company contracting for the Greek government uses British accountants etc.)

    Beyond that, there is the standard provable falsehood that we need to stand together to compete with economic superpowers like the USA and China, and the fun ideological claptrap about the European ideal.

    Does your essay need counterarguments as well? I can counter all of the points above if necessary.

    Good luck with the essay.
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    (Original post by chrisawhitmore)
    Ah, well, in terms of your essay you could use the standard arguments that the pro-Eu camp has been trotting out for years, in that the UK does a very large amount of its trade with the EU, and so a failing Greek economy will negatively impact the overall EU economy, with knock on effects beyond loss of direct trade with Greece (French company contracting for the Greek government uses British accountants etc.)

    Beyond that, there is the standard provable falsehood that we need to stand together to compete with economic superpowers like the USA and China, and the fun ideological claptrap about the European ideal.

    Does your essay need counterarguments as well? I can counter all of the points above if necessary.

    Good luck with the essay.
    Thank you very much, this is very helpful! Any ideas on counter arguments would also be greatly appreciated!
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    If we are legally obliged to or if doing so makes financial sense then yes.
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    Dawg, it's not like we can.

    http://www.debtbombshell.com/
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    No. It should leave the Euro. It should have left a long time ago. Like, the moment it joined.
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    They should compeltely default, not the so-called default the europhiles in the BBC like to tell is is happening, and export their way back to growth with the drachma.

    A 'bailout' for greece is a bailout for their banks, the next generation of greeks will have this debt forced upon them by all sorts of taxes, more expensive exports and higher inflation.

    If you have already decided a bailout is good for greece then I congratulate you on the high marks you are about to receive from your state educator.

    Make sure you put an equal amount of reasons on either side of the argument, but save the strongest for the pro-side and conclude by saying you largely agree with the bailout, then offer a suggestion like, I dunno, greece should have a war with Cyprus and turkey to return to full employment, its what the Keyensian model depends on ..........
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    (Original post by Classical Liberal)
    No. It should leave the Euro. It should have left a long time ago. Like, the moment it joined.
    Its debt is in Euros. What would that achieve with regards to current debt?
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    The summary of the debt crisis:

    The bankers rigged the game for themselves, still managed to lose, and now want everyone else to pay for their loss.
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    Apologies if this is a stoooopid question, but can someone please explain to me what the term "bail out" actually means?
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    (Original post by Student5321)
    Thank you very much, this is very helpful! Any ideas on counter arguments would also be greatly appreciated!
    Well, the arguments I suggested are countered thus:

    1) The bailouts do nothing to improve the Greek economy, while actively damaging the economies of the states doing the bailing out, as they have to pay for the lost money. The bailouts actively damage the Greek economy by trapping them in the Euro and stopping them from defaulting, returning to the drachma and returning to prosperity through the advantages to trade of a weak currency (things being cheaper in Greece means more tourism revenue and so on.

    2) The EU is simply not competitive on the Global stage, with the global market share of the 15 pre-enlargement states dropping by over 10% from 1974 to 2009, compared to the USA's share remaining steady (an increase of less than 1%) over the same time. Furthermore, the prosperity and pre-eminence of europe in the last 500 years is largely down to competition between states, not an application of massed centralized power. If centralization was the way forward, then the Indians of the Mughal empire would have discovered and conquered Europe, rather than the other way around.

    3) The European ideal is not to be pursued at the cost of the people of Europe. All great despots have had an ideal when they mistreated their people, be it Mao's cultural revolution or Hitler's great Aryan nation. Ideals should never be prized above people's freedoms or lives. If you find you must remove the rights of the people, be it their right to a democratically elected government or to have enough to eat, then you should adjust your ideals.
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