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LCC or Ravensbourne?

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Got a question about Student Finance? Ask the experts this week on TSR! 14-09-2014
  • View Poll Results: Digital or Traditional based courses?
    Digital
    6
    66.67%
    Traditional
    3
    33.33%

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    (Original post by l.j.s18ftw)
    Your opinion is wrong.
    To say because someone is a digital based graphic designer (which what most employers want or they would hire an artist) their work will just blend in with every other person doing computer based art is idiotic. Does your work blend with every other traditional artist? No. Also what traditional media relevant to graphic design cannot be replicated by the computer?
    What that person probably means by digital is the way forward is that everything is going digital and that is what the majority of graphic design jobs involve, your design doesn't have to be created digitally but it will most likely have to be applied digitally.

    But if you graduate a graphic design degree with no ability to design for iphones, androids, websites you are going to be the one at a disadvantage.
    Lol you can't say my opinion is wrong! Its an opinion...there isn't a right or wrong with opinion.

    If you read what I said again, you'll see that I actually said you'd have to have a great technique or style to set you apart from the rest of the digital designers. Yeah the same applies to traditional designers but there are millions of traditional processes to experiment with compared to digital, I think anyway. And I never said that a designer should only be able to do traditional work. That really would be idiotic and limiting - if i'd even said it =P obviously you need to have digital skills but as I said, the computer is just another tool to have. If you only know how to design for iphone, then you're not really gonna go anywhere just knowing that. You have to be able to design for tons of other platforms. Company stationary, brochures, books, posters, invites, magazines...the list is endless tbh lol. In some ways digital is the way forward but that doesn't mean just don't bother learning anything traditional!

    This term alone i've worked with paper engineering, chalk typography and string art. A computer can definitely not create anything that has the same effect as those. You can probably get close but it won't have the same tactile quality.
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    (Original post by Kai Hiwatari)
    Lol you can't say my opinion is wrong! Its an opinion...there isn't a right or wrong with opinion.

    If you read what I said again, you'll see that I actually said you'd have to have a great technique or style to set you apart from the rest of the digital designers. Yeah the same applies to traditional designers but there are millions of traditional processes to experiment with compared to digital, I think anyway. And I never said that a designer should only be able to do traditional work. That really would be idiotic and limiting - if i'd even said it =P obviously you need to have digital skills but as I said, the computer is just another tool to have. If you only know how to design for iphone, then you're not really gonna go anywhere just knowing that. You have to be able to design for tons of other platforms. Company stationary, brochures, books, posters, invites, magazines...the list is endless tbh lol. In some ways digital is the way forward but that doesn't mean just don't bother learning anything traditional!

    This term alone i've worked with paper engineering, chalk typography and string art. A computer can definitely not create anything that has the same effect as those. You can probably get close but it won't have the same tactile quality.


    The notion that all digital artists blend together because they all use a mac is demonstrably wrong. Just like the notion all acrylic painters are the same because they use the same paint is easily proven wrong by citing two very different acrylic painters. I mean it could be your opinion they are all the same but that would just highlight your inability to evaluate art with any form of knowledge.
    Taking the stance of being incorrect isn't a legitimate opinion.
    An opinion is: A view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.

    You lack knowledge here, if you were well versed with digital designers you would not say they all blend together. An opinion is not something that is untouchable and cannot be wrong, I find that fact you think this rather troubling.


    I think you need to accept the fact that digital is way more important in terms of employability for graphic design.


    Look at this site: http://du.st/selected
    this is one of the most artistic graphic design companies I know and MOST of there stuff is digital.
    How are you going to find a job without digital skills?
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    (Original post by l.j.s18ftw)
    The notion that all digital artists blend together because they all use a mac is demonstrably wrong. Just like the notion all acrylic painters are the same because they use the same paint is easily proven wrong by citing two very different acrylic painters. I mean it could be your opinion they are all the same but that would just highlight your inability to evaluate art with any form of knowledge.
    Taking the stance of being incorrect isn't a legitimate opinion.
    An opinion is: A view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.

    You lack knowledge here, if you were well versed with digital designers you would not say they all blend together. An opinion is not something that is untouchable and cannot be wrong, I find that fact you think this rather troubling.



    "but the problem with that is you'll just blend in with every other digital designer out there - you won't have anything to make you stand out unless if you obviously come up with an amazing technique or something."

    I think you need to pick a copy of imagine fx or creative review because this comment sounds very ignorant.


    I never said you said that a designer should only be able to do traditional work.


    Most of those things you listed would also be designed digitally.



    "If you only know how to design for iphone, then you're not really gonna go anywhere just knowing that." When did I say you should learn just iphone?



    "paper engineering, chalk typography and string art"
    You can create string art, chalk typography, and the images for paper engineering digitally and if you think you can't get the similar effect that just highlights your lack of software skills. Obviously it is not going to feel the same when you touch it, why would such an obvious thing need highlighting?

    I think you need to accept the fact that digital is way more important in terms of employability for graphic design.
    I've seen some of your comments on other threads and you seem to be a pretty defensive douche so i'm actually not going to bother replying to any of this, sorry!

    OP, i've given my opinion, I believe the best designers are those that can communicate good ideas and have the ability to use both digital and traditional media. They're both equally as important and you'll get a well-rounded design education if you can go somewhere that encourages you/ has the facilities to do that =)
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    (Original post by Kai Hiwatari)
    I've seen some of your comments on other threads and you seem to be a pretty defensive douche so i'm actually not going to bother replying to any of this, sorry!

    OP, i've given my opinion, I believe the best designers are those that can communicate good ideas and have the ability to use both digital and traditional media. They're both equally as important and you'll get a well-rounded design education if you can go somewhere that encourages you/ has the facilities to do that =)
    Yes ignoring everything I've said to call me a douche really helps you seem not ignorant.
    The fact is they are not as equally important in terms of employability and if you don't want to recognise that it will be to your detriment. I was only trying to help.
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    (Original post by l.j.s18ftw)
    Yes ignoring everything I've said to call me a douche really helps you seem not ignorant.
    The fact is they are not as equally important in terms of employability and if you don't want to recognise that it will be to your detriment. I was only trying to help.
    And how do you know for a fact? You're not even at university yet.
    If they weren't equally as important then that means every tutor on my uni course and all of my friend's tutors is lying and wrong and i'm wasting my time on this course. I highly doubt that.

    Yes, I was grateful for your first answer =) thought that was fair. But I really cannot be bothered to argue with everything you quoted from my post and some pretty ignorant remarks in your next post. You have no right to assume what my digital design skills are like, you've never seen my work. Yeah, i'm not particularly great at digital skills but thats why I came to uni, to learn and to develop those skills. I'm replying on here between doing uni work to do this learning so don't have time to waste arguing sorry =P
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    (Original post by Kai Hiwatari)
    And how do you know for a fact? You're not even at university yet.
    If they weren't equally as important then that means every tutor on my uni course and all of my friend's tutors is lying and wrong and i'm wasting my time on this course. I highly doubt that.

    Yes, I was grateful for your first answer =) thought that was fair. But I really cannot be bothered to argue with everything you quoted from my post and some pretty ignorant remarks in your next post. I'm replying on here between doing uni work so don't have time to waste arguing sorry =P
    Lol, how do I know that? I don't know maybe because I actually researched the job I wanted and the course I am doing.
    Most job listings state:
    Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign, Flash, Dreamweaver, Fireworks

    not: string art and paper engineering.
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    op i did my foundation at LCC last year and i really enjoyed it. be prepared for a lot of work though! i felt i improved a great deal and left feeling confident with my portfolio. The friends i made there also felt this way too. I'm not too sure about ravensbourne though
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    (Original post by l.j.s18ftw)
    Lol, how do I know that? I don't know maybe because I actually researched the job I wanted and the course I am doing.
    Most job listings state:
    Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign, Flash, Dreamweaver, Fireworks

    not: string art and paper engineering.
    Of course, it all depends on what you believe university to be, and what it should be.

    There are two schools of thought:
    A job training centre or a place for exploration and pursuit of knowledge for its intrinsic value.

    I personally feel that it is incredibly dangerous to go into university (particularly for a 'creative' course) worrying about the 'real world' too much. I think that university is the only place you're going to be able to get away from this pesky 'real world' for 3 years, and is a massive opportunity to push the boundaries of your discipline. There is a tonne of exciting work coming out of universities, none of it has come out of students worrying about conforming to some kind of standard. We'd be stuck in some weird kind of loop if every year students didn't push the craft forward. I believe that we should drive industry, not the other way around.

    Courses that put so much attention on being 'industry lead' are often just pumping out year after year of people very adept at using software, but with no actual creative process or thought for themselves. Yes, they'll get a job, but it'll likely be one with no path of progression.

    Employers are looking for people who, as well as having a grounding and understanding of industry, are really ****ing excited about design. This comes through when someone is experimenting with materials, and trying to do something new, whether it be through digital or traditional mediums.

    The example that you used, of dust (http://du.st), I'm afraid has only served to contradict your points. Read this paragraph on their founding:

    "Walker met Alun Cocks and Pamela Bowman at Leeds Metropolitan University in the mid '90s, where they were all studying graphic art and design. He recalls it as not being a traditional communications course, with particular focus on craft and authorial practice (the voice of the artist taking centre stage), and soon the trio formed a tight-knit group."
    (http://www.computerarts.co.uk/interviews/dust)

    It's not a coincidence that the courses that are getting their graduates into the most exciting, well paid, and most of all fun jobs are the ones that still retain the view that it's the idea that should decide the medium, not the other way round.

    Oh, and on a final note, I completely contest your viewpoint that you can recreate anything in digital. The human mind is very adept at deciding whether something is real or not - you cannot seriously tell me that you are, to take an example, as convinced by CGI as you are by actual physical effect work in cinemas. There is still a place in society as a whole for work away from digital, and I wholeheartedly believe that there will be for a very long time.

    EDIT:/ Sorry OP for robbing your thread. On that subject: Your two chosen unis are almost comically polar opposites when it comes to what I've just said above (with ravensbourne leaning very much towards the job end) . I hope that (in a sort of ****ty roundabout way) helps.
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    Of course, it all depends on what you believe university to be, and what it should be.

    There are two schools of thought:
    A job training centre or a place for exploration and pursuit of knowledge for its intrinsic value.
    What’s wrong with having both?


    I personally feel that it is incredibly dangerous to go into university (particularly for a 'creative' course) worrying about the 'real world' too much. I think that university is the only place you're going to be able to get away from this pesky 'real world' for 3 years, and is a massive opportunity to push the boundaries of your discipline. There is a tonne of exciting work coming out of universities, none of it has come out of students worrying about conforming to some kind of standard. We'd be stuck in some weird kind of loop if every year students didn't push the craft forward. I believe that we should drive industry, not the other way around.
    But the real world doesn’t shun great creativity or high concept, so why is it dangerous? It is more dangerous to be coming out of university without any transferable skills than it is to worry about the real world. It depends on whether you care about having a career, which I do hence why I want to be a well rounded designer. My work is very creative this why I am ready to advance skills in other areas which will be beneficial to my creativity and employability simultaneously.




    Courses that put so much attention on being 'industry lead' are often just pumping out year after year of people very adept at using software, but with no actual creative process or thought for themselves. Yes, they'll get a job, but it'll likely be one with no path of progression.
    University can’t make people be creative or uncreative. Also you can be as creative as you want it doesn’t mean your work will be good. 5 year olds are creative.
    What universities are you talking about? Where are all these uncreative zombies?
    And show me how you know they have had zero career progression and thought process for themselves.
    Pontificating does not create a legitimate argument.





    Employers are looking for people who, as well as having a grounding and understanding of industry, are really ****ing excited about design. This comes through when someone is experimenting with materials, and trying to do something new, whether it be through digital or traditional mediums.
    If you want to know what employers are looking for then look on job listing. The majority are after good digital skills from my research. You won’t get a job on excitement, also experimentation can be great but it you don’t make a good final piece no one is going to care.





    The example that you used, of dust (http://du.st), I'm afraid has only served to contradict your points. Read this paragraph on their founding:

    "Walker met Alun Cocks and Pamela Bowman at Leeds Metropolitan University in the mid '90s, where they were all studying graphic art and design. He recalls it as not being a traditional communications course, with particular focus on craft and authorial practice (the voice of the artist taking centre stage), and soon the trio formed a tight-knit group."
    (http://www.computerarts.co.uk/interviews/dust)
    How does it contradict my point? My point was in terms of employability for graphic design digital is very important. This is evidenced by the amount of digital work they do even though they are a very creative graphic design company (the reason why I used them). The majority of their archive is digital. I see no contradiction, please point one out. It would only be contradictory if all their work was traditional, which it isn’t.


    It's not a coincidence that the courses that are getting their graduates into the most exciting, well paid, and most of all fun jobs are the ones that still retain the view that it's the idea that should decide the medium, not the other way round.
    Where is your proof these creative grads are in high paid "fun" jobs?
    Because according to the league tables ual (if that is what you are referring to) has 50% employability, that means 50% are unemployed. Where is your proof that these 50% in work have "fun" jobs high paid jobs?





    Oh, and on a final note, I completely contest your viewpoint that you can recreate anything in digital. The human mind is very adept at deciding whether something is real or not - you cannot seriously tell me that you are, to take an example, as convinced by CGI as you are by actual physical effect work in cinemas. There is still a place in society as a whole for work away from digital, and I wholeheartedly believe that there will be for a very long time.
    A place in society? Sure. But what about a place in the job market? Could you show me three completely traditional graphic designers who are working?
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    (Original post by l.j.s18ftw)
    What’s wrong with having both?
    i can't help but notice that you are on these forums arguing with people a lot. would your time not be better spent experimenting, designing and creating, both for personal pleasure and development and/or your portfolio?
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    Hey,

    I disagree with pretty much everything you just said, but just feel like we'd be going in circles if we continued to argue. I think it's fair to say that we are both looking for completely different things in uni courses.

    I wish you the best of luck in the future, but just want to offer this:
    Stop worrying about employability. If you make really great, original work, there will be a job for you. And it'll be one that you enjoy. (hence, "fun")
    (watch when in 3 years time I reread this post and shake my head at the naivety hahahaha)


    I absolutely am not referring to UAL in my post, by the way.

    Out of just pure personal curiosity, I would be very interested to see some of your work; if you would like to swap portfolios then hit me up
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    BUMP - Poll added!
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    Can a mod change the thread title to add "Digital VS Traditional"?
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    You need an option for both combined =P
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    http://www.facebook.com/groups/311297648939006/ lcc foundation fb group! join xxx
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    heyy! id really appreciate it if you could take a look at my website and buy my work! http://AmyLyons.4ormat.com/

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