[MagicNMedicine]

Greatest of all time no.

Worth re-electing yes. And the American people will vote him back in.

[Sharpshooter]

(Original post by MagicNMedicine)
Greatest of all time no.

Worth re-electing yes. And the American people will vote him back in.

As I say Obama's approval ratings aren't great. 46% on gallup right now, no one has been elected lower than 48%.

Now he probably will get relected, but compared to Ronald Reagan and Clinton, his approval ratings are poor. They were near the 60s now and both topped over 70% in their second terms.

[MagicNMedicine]

(Original post by Sharpshooter)
As I say Obama's approval ratings aren't great. 46% on gallup right now, no one has been elected lower than 48%.

Now he probably will get relected, but compared to Ronald Reagan and Clinton, his approval ratings are poor. They were near the 60s now and both topped over 70% in their second terms.

Thats probably a consequence of a couple of things, a very difficult economic situation where most people are grumpy and disillusioned, and also the fact Obama was hyped up as the new Messiah and reality was very different. So a lot of people will vent their disappointment that Obama hasn't been able to deliver the expectations that were built up in 2008. But when it comes to the election people will have to make the decision who will be best in a difficult situation, Obama or Romney, and Obama will win. The Republicans are very weak at the moment and the field of candidates was bare.

Reagan and Clinton enjoyed more popularity because of their personal charm (which Obama also has) but at a time when the US economy was doing well, although Reagan was doing it by offering tax cuts and making up the difference by running up deficits so he left a mess for George Bush. The economy did very well under Clinton and he remained popular no matter how much the moralists threw at him over Monica Lewinsky.

[Sharpshooter]

Yeah Obama's down to mid 40s on gallup, Reagan and Clinton are crushing him right now, the ones he's being compared with.

To be considered the greatest ever, his approval ratings will have to comfortabley beat those guys IMO. Very poor.

[maccy]

(Original post by Made in the USA)
The video wasn't supposed to illustrate any example of irony. I was trying to show everyone Obama's arguments against mandates which the courts are now using to defeat Obamacare, obama's signature piece of legislation. The fact that he is a constitutional attorney makes this seem like an even bigger cluster**** because even people with no legal background know its obviously illegal/unconstitutional to force people to buy insurance or face fines

Now the administration is in full spin mode, trying to rebrand mandates as a "republican idea". It's still unconstitutional no matter who thought of it first

Isn't it illegal not to have vehicle insurance? or is that just in the UK?

[SacredPhoenix]

I appreciate his hands-off non-confrontational approach to foreign policy, I only wish he'd have a similar attitude towards the economy.

He's a politician. Best thing to do is accept that and live your life for the best.

[Made in the USA]

(Original post by maccy)
Isn't it illegal not to have vehicle insurance? or is that just in the UK?

You need insurance, but the car insurance = obamacare argument doesn't hold water. Driving is a choice, a voluntary act and the owners of the roads belong to the states. The states can set the conditions for how the roads are used and people who don't like those rules can take public transportation or walk. The only thing that is required is liability insurance, not insurance to cover a driver's own injuries. If you chose not to drive you don't need insurance. For the two to be the same, not driving and not having car insurance would come with a steep fine.

The individual mandate is based on the theory that there is no limit to what congress can regulate. Obamacare even regulates non-action by fining people who don't buy health insurance. We will one day get to a point where everything not forbidden will be mandatory.

[maccy]

(Original post by Made in the USA)
You need insurance, but the car insurance = obamacare argument doesn't hold water. Driving is a choice, a voluntary act and the owners of the roads belong to the states. The states can set the conditions for how the roads are used and people who don't like those rules can take public transportation or walk. The only thing that is required is liability insurance, not insurance to cover a driver's own injuries. If you chose not to drive you don't need insurance. For the two to be the same, not driving and not having car insurance would come with a steep fine.

The individual mandate is based on the theory that there is no limit to what congress can regulate. Obamacare even regulates non-action by fining people who don't buy health insurance. We will one day get to a point where everything not forbidden will be mandatory.

yeah but what percentage of the population doesn't need healthcare of some sort at any point in their lives? And I think that last bits a bit of a slippery slope arguement. What are your views on the NHS?

EDIT: To be honest, I don't really know much about obamacare and i've been wondering why people are so against it, I just wanted to hear a well justified view point

[Madmachine]

No.

President Whiskers (1904-1908) was



Whiskers introduced the Shareholders Act of 1907 which helped bring down government fiscal debt after the ill advised Maquitan Expedition of 1905. He also fought hard for a series of sweeping congressional reforms that paved the way for greater equality for the various ethnic minorities of the United States. Without the work of Whiskers the United States would be as backwards as Canada is today.

[pixxie]

At least he's better to look at than George Bush when delivering his speeches

[Maryb_101]

ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS!

So what if the man gives powerful speeches; theyre just words...

[Made in the USA]

(Original post by maccy)
yeah but what percentage of the population doesn't need healthcare of some sort at any point in their lives? And I think that last bits a bit of a slippery slope arguement. What are your views on the NHS?

Yeah, people do need it eventually, especially when they get old. That's why old people get medicare and if you are too poor to afford insurance get medicaid. Subjecting the american people to massive taxes/fines for not having insurance was a very poor way of addressing the uninsured problem.

My views on the NHS? Compared to what, the US system? I have had some experience with the NHS on some of my trips to Britain. The US system is the world's best in terms of quality, but access to it isn't as universal as it should be. NHS is universal access, but inferior quality. Both are flawed.

(Original post by maccy)
EDIT: To be honest, I don't really know much about obamacare and i've been wondering why people are so against it, I just wanted to hear a well justified view point

I hope I did that. Imagine how angry people in Britain would be if your government decided everyone needed some product and started fining people 2000 GPB for not having it? I don't see why it's so hard to understand why people hate obamacare so much.

[arra]

Even as a very left-leaning person, I can't help but believe that competition is the best way to increase efficiency in a industry like healthcare. It's not the health-providing that is a problem as much as drug-development. The whole architecture of the industry is screwed at the seams, and it's going to blow up.

On top of that there are way too many old people.

Most importantly, I don't see healthcare as much a universal "right" as I do education. The marginal cost of increasing the life of a broke 75 year by one year is coming from the many million kids in the American ghettoes.

In fact I think that although the premise behind Obamacare is something I would support (differentiating me from most conservatives), I believe that the implementation is deeply retrograde to liberal principles.

Call me the devil. I don't care about the life of a 75 year old at the cost of the millions of poor kids in dreary neighborhoods who can only dream of a good education. Call me the devil, I think it's a sin that the government actually pays for this at the cost of true equity.

Yeah, you're right. That does mean that people who can afford it get to live longer. By two, three years. So ****ing what. They also drove Mercedes their whole life, and flew first class. What's the difference?

And eventually, I believe that regulated (very tightly regulated) competition will win out. I think there needs to be a social safety net, but in education and general welfare, and basic healthcare.

Cancer and its kin do not deserve to be America's number one issue.

[Josh93]

Considering everything that he's inherited I think he's done as well as could be reasonably expected and due to the ridiculous state of his opposition I think (and hope) that he will be re-elected.

However Kennedy, Lincoln and both Rosevelts were far better presidents in my opinion. I certainly wouldn't carve his face into a mountain.

[The Marshall]

What good he has done? He's done nothing. A real effective leader would know how to reform, build up a army and defend it.

[Spaz Man]

Of course not. He hasn't closed Guantanamo Bay, he has proceeded to destroy the 4th amendment with the NDAA act and he has added $4 trillion to the U.S debt (although a lot of that is due to Congressional bi-partisan bickering).

He has done some good things like pass decent health-care reform and help a modest recovery but he certainly is nowhere near FDR, Lincoln or Washington.

[TieMeUp]

Only if you're a total knob with no conception of history whatsoever

[JMB92]

There have been many Presidents far better than Barack Obama, the best fairly recent President has to be Ronald Reagan (in my opinion anyway).

[Blue1878]

Before republican's start going crazy with their objections to this statement while Obama clearly is not the best president of all time, either JFK (DEMOCRAT) or FDR (DEMOCRAT) or Clinton (DEMOCRAT) probably were IMO
The worst again IMO - Hoover (REPUBLICAN), Bush (REPUBLICAN), Nixon (REPUBLICAN)

[Heavenly_Blues]

Looks like those 38 who voted yes have never heard of ol' Teddy Roosevelt.


Educate yourselves.
"Death had to take Roosevelt sleeping, for if he had been awake, there would have been a fight. ~ Vice President (at the time) Thomas Marshall.