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Are Honor Killings Justified?

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    So I watched the panorama thing yesterday about honor killings and found myself getting overly angry about the subject.

    What are your thoughts on it?
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    I think the idea of taking someone's life is wrong, in general. Obviously if you are defending yourself from someone who is trying to kill you, that is different, but I am against capital punishment and am definitely against honour killings. The idea that honour runs more deeply than your love for a sister or daughter is something I find abhorrant.
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    No, they are not justified.
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    Is this a joke?

    edit: just hit the big 600 :bhangra:
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    No they are never justified and the ideas and motivatioons that lead to them need to challenged and tackled.

    It should be made completely clear that these views and practices have no place in a liberal british society and that those responsible for these acts will be found and punished.

    As to combatting the views that allows the killings to happen, i'm not sure how they'd be addressed. Maybe through education?
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    Of course they're not justified!

    One person's life is far more precious than another person's religious belief.
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    Perhaps, great men and great deeds can and have begun with the will to fight, kill, and die for honor. However, egotistical close minded people senselessly killing their family and loved ones because their morality, beliefs, and authority were defied is not about honor. It is about control, ego, and protecting their authority. Simply put it is about saving face. I hate that this despicable justification wrongly receives a description with the word honor in it. There is nothing honorable about it.
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    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    It's a bit of a stupid question.
    Is slavery bad?
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    (Original post by saachi)
    Of course they're not justified!

    One person's life is far more precious than another person's religious belief.
    Honour killings aren't part of religion (i.e. Islam says it's haram I think) but I guess for some families which are very backwards, they believe it is ok when it isn't.
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    (Original post by bownessie)
    I think the idea of taking someone's life is wrong, in general. Obviously if you are defending yourself from someone who is trying to kill you, that is different, but I am against capital punishment and am definitely against honour killings. The idea that honour runs more deeply than your love for a sister or daughter is something I find abhorrant.
    :yep: Same here.

    To answer the question, 'honour' killing can never be justified. It is never okay. I find it rather barbaric and disgraceful that someone feels it's acceptable to kill their own flesh and blood just because they want to make their own choice on marriage and who they fall in love with.

    There is nothing 'honorable' about that.
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    (Original post by bownessie)
    I think the idea of taking someone's life is wrong, in general. Obviously if you are defending yourself from someone who is trying to kill you, that is different, but I am against capital punishment and am definitely against honour killings. The idea that honour runs more deeply than your love for a sister or daughter is something I find abhorrant.
    Absolutely, but I would just point out that honour is a huge and important concept within many cultures both ancient and modern and so, while we find it abhorrent, there is a huge culture behind it and it's important to understand that it has a very important place in many cultures.
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    (Original post by Dee Leigh)
    Honour killings aren't part of religion (i.e. Islam says it's haram I think) but I guess for some families which are very backwards, they believe it is ok when it isn't.
    Islam is about honor though, which is why you cannot blaspheme or burn Korans, or paint pictures of the Prophet or criticise Islam.

    It's basically another way for describing a morality system which places and enforce strict codes on its adherents (and even those who do not believe). It's also a morality system which stems from belief and tradition obviously and not reason.

    It's hard to know where the religious thing ends and backwards village cultural practices begin.

    I suppose they support each other in some ways.
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    (Original post by snozzle)
    Islam is about honor though, which is why you cannot blaspheme or burn Korans, or paint pictures of the Prophet or criticise Islam.

    It's basically another way for describing a morality system which places and enforce strict codes on its adherents (and even those who do not believe). It's also a morality system which stems from belief and tradition obviously and not reason.

    It's hard to know where the religious thing ends and backwards village cultural practices begin.

    I suppose they support each other in some ways.
    Honour stems from strong familial ties and hierarchical tradition. The reason why suicide in places like Japan is so high is because people are encouraged to kill themselves if they dishonour/shame their family name. Plenty of Japanese people have been disowned by their families and no longer acknowledged if they've done something which violates their family's honour. Common in South Asia as well, although to a less extent in Bangladesh/Sri Lanka.
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    (Original post by toronto353)
    Absolutely, but I would just point out that honour is a huge and important concept within many cultures both ancient and modern and so, while we find it abhorrent, there is a huge culture behind it and it's important to understand that it has a very important place in many cultures.
    That is true but you are talking about the honor of blood though, it is different from the honor of a religious-morality system (Islam).

    Having said that though as has been said it is not just Islam but backwards concepts of family honor etc though, but it is so intertwined with Islam it is hard to know where one stops and the other begins, especially with the very strict and hypocritical attitudes towards women and sex.

    There was the honor of blood in Roman antiquity but sexual morality was much less strict, but the Father of a family had the right to take the life of any family member or slave.
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    (Original post by Brutal Honesty)
    Honour stems from strong familial ties and hierarchical tradition. The reason why suicide in places like Japan is so high is because people are encouraged to kill themselves if they dishonour/shame their family name. Plenty of Japanese people have been disowned by their families and no longer acknowledged if they've done something which violates their family's honour. Common in South Asia as well, although to a less extent in Bangladesh/Sri Lanka.
    It's not a form of social solidarity just to do with family though, it is backed up by religion. You have honor in the family and honor in the religion, both go hand in hand.

    For example Muslim women who stay virgins until they marry seem themselves as as 'good muslims' as well as being 'good daughters' etc. To flout the morality is to dishonor the religion AND the family.

    There is not much difference between private and public life in this sort of system.

    I didn't know the suicide rates were that high in Japan actually, but there can be many reasons for suicide not just loss of honor, but you could be right though.
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    (Original post by snozzle)
    That is true but you are talking about the honor of blood though, it is different from the honor of a religious-morality system (Islam).

    Having said that though as has been said it is not just Islam but backwards concepts of family honor etc though, but it is so intertwined with Islam it is hard to know where one stops and the other begins, especially with the very strict and hypocritical attitudes towards women and sex.

    There was the honor of blood in Roman antiquity but sexual morality was much less strict, but the Father of a family had the right to take the life of any family member or slave.
    I don't think that you can argue that honour wasn't intertwined with the religious/ morality system in the ancient period. Honour is far more prevalent in ancient Greece (particularly Homeric Greece) than in Rome (though it was important in Rome).
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    (Original post by toronto353)
    I don't think that you can argue that honour wasn't intertwined with the religious/ morality system in the ancient period. Honour is far more prevalent in ancient Greece (particularly Homeric Greece) than in Rome (though it was important in Rome).
    Sure it was I agree, but Islam doesn't honor blood per se, authority comes from the Koran/God not the tradition of blood. I suppose there is the whole Sunni-Shia split about the nature of Mohammad successors but it is a spiritual lineage rather than a blood line per se I think?
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    (Original post by snozzle)
    It's not a form of social solidarity just to do with family though, it is backed up by religion. You have honor in the family and honor in the religion, both go hand in hand.

    For example Muslim women who stay virgins until they marry seem themselves as as 'good muslims' as well as being 'good daughters' etc. To flout the morality is to dishonor the religion AND the family.

    There is not much difference between private and public life in this sort of system.

    I didn't know the suicide rates were that high in Japan actually, but there can be many reasons for suicide not just loss of honor, but you could be right though.
    It's a well known phenomenon in Japan, it can be traced back to the practise of seppuku (honour-suicide) and is still widely practised today. It can be for something as little as not doing well in an exam. Honour killings in South Asia cross religious boundaries pretty comfortably, middle class Indian Muslims/Hindus are less likely to do it than poorer Muslims/Hindus. The person who founded the charity Karma Nirvana in the UK who herself was a victim of a forced marriage (at age 14) and abuse and escaped an honour killing was a Sikh. Muslims in Malaysia, Indonesia and in Africa don't do it indicating that its culturally-bound. We can't compare with Hindus/Sikhs because those religions don't exist in big numbers outside of India.
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    (Original post by Brutal Honesty)
    Honour stems from strong familial ties and hierarchical tradition. The reason why suicide in places like Japan is so high is because people are encouraged to kill themselves if they dishonour/shame their family name. Plenty of Japanese people have been disowned by their families and no longer acknowledged if they've done something which violates their family's honour. Common in South Asia as well, although to a less extent in Bangladesh/Sri Lanka.
    I've actually heard of things like this happening in Turkish families, where the girl is encouraged to kill herself if she shames the family.
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    (Original post by Brutal Honesty)
    It's a well known phenomenon in Japan, it can be traced back to the practise of seppuku (honour-suicide) and is still widely practised today. It can be for something as little as not doing well in an exam. Honour killings in South Asia cross religious boundaries pretty comfortably, middle class Indian Muslims/Hindus are less likely to do it than poorer Muslims/Hindus. The person who founded the charity Karma Nirvana in the UK who herself was a victim of a forced marriage (at age 14) and abuse and escaped an honour killing was a Sikh. Muslims in Malaysia, Indonesia and in Africa don't do it indicating that its culturally-bound. We can't compare with Hindus/Sikhs because those religions don't exist in big numbers outside of India.
    No I understand it is a phenomenon, just I did not know the Japanese suicide rate was high compared to say us.

    Durkheim I think defined it as altruistic suicide or anomic suicide. I'm not sure which one it is actually.

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