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    Hey all!

    Graduate in 2013, first class undergrad so far (finance, maths etc), couple of unknown IBD boutique internships, solid CV otherwise (EC's, sports, etc), posted it up on TSR and got good comments (will try and find the link and post it), networked like anything and have done literally everything I can to get through the process. Have shown it to a CV specialist on here too - adjusted it dramatically - sent it out to over 40 boutiques in London (and cold-called several of them) - still no luck.

    I have no summer offer lined up. Only 1 interview from 50+ applications - at a top M&A BB (who said my application was one of the strongest they received for IBD). Not moaning, showing off or whining.... but

    What do I do now? Im looking to get into Trading full-time because Ive lost interest in IBD (not because of rejection, but because I have had some time to review what I actually like/don't like)

    - GMAT etc for Masters? Even if I get a summer offer for next year I won't get a grad offer until 2014 right?
    - Do CISI exams for trading/trade my own account etc.
    - Sports/voluntary work etc
    - Something else?
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    target uni?
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    A very good friend of mine was faced with the same problem in his penultimate year of uni.

    He went and spent the summer with some friends in the West Country collecting money door to door for St. John's Ambulance.

    Now has one of the best jobs out of all us in Private Equity.

    Don't let it get you down. Don't waste your summer sitting in your pants eating pringles though.
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    (Original post by Kerpal)
    A very good friend of mine was faced with the same problem in his penultimate year of uni.

    He went and spent the summer with some friends in the West Country collecting money door to door for St. John's Ambulance.

    Now has one of the best jobs out of all us in Private Equity.

    Don't let it get you down. Don't waste your summer sitting in your pants eating pringles though.
    so how did he go from no internship to PE?
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    (Original post by non)
    so how did he go from no internship to PE?
    Same question.

    And yes - target uni - LSE infact.
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    Man up!

    You are not guaranteed an interview or an internship or a job because of your experience or university. You say you network but emailing and calling isn't enough. Do you call & email these guys until you a straight up rejection?

    My sister's boyfriend went from 10-20 placed university to JP. I've never seen a guy graft as hard as him. I bet your CV is loaded with nothing but finance which makes you look like an excel monkey.
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    (Original post by Paul Allen)
    Man up!

    You are not guaranteed an interview or an internship or a job because of your experience or university. You say you network but emailing and calling isn't enough. Do you call & email these guys until you a straight up rejection?

    My sister's boyfriend went from 10-20 placed university to JP. I've never seen a guy graft as hard as him. I bet your CV is loaded with nothing but finance which makes you look like an excel monkey.
    so how did he network so well then?
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    (Original post by Paul Allen)
    Man up!

    You are not guaranteed an interview or an internship or a job because of your experience or university. You say you network but emailing and calling isn't enough. Do you call & email these guys until you a straight up rejection?

    My sister's boyfriend went from 10-20 placed university to JP. I've never seen a guy graft as hard as him. I bet your CV is loaded with nothing but finance which makes you look like an excel monkey.


    Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I am pretty sure the job he is applying for is to be an 'excel monkey' as you so humorously phrase it. :confused:
    Also my sister's best friend's cousin's daughter's great uncle's son's son is Warren Buffett. What did your sister's boyfriend put on his CV then, "I only like finance a little bit but that's okay because I built a school in Uganda"? :rolleyes:



    As for the OP, perhaps try and ask for feedback on your applications that were rejected and ask what you can do to improve it? Your application & uni sound really top notch so personally there's no obvious reason for them to decline without an interview (did you do online tests at all?).

    Another idea might be to ask your tutors or something? They'll most definitely be able to give you advice which is much more qualified than most people on TSR!
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    (Original post by non)
    so how did he network so well then?
    C'mon now, that would be too easy for students here. Do it the way you least prefer. If that is catching a train from Scotland down to London for a coffee with the desk head, so be it.

    If you have trouble thinking of ways to network outside of what you know, you are not even close to the job.
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    This is the best example of how people on here think the top 6 are the only ways to get into IB/IBD. Well here's a lesson folks, you have to make your way, a name on a bit of paper means **** all.

    OP doesn't sound like someone who's thought that, so keep going and I'm sure something will turn up.

    But there's that 'Manchester for free vs. LSE for 45k' thread, and this is aimed at those saying "LSE! LSE! LSE!". Nothing is guaranteed, but you can guarantee you're saving money.
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    (Original post by HeyyImRyan)
    Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I am pretty sure the job he is applying for is to be an 'excel monkey' as you so humorously phrase it. :confused:
    Also my sister's best friend's cousin's daughter's great uncle's son's son is Warren Buffett. What did your sister's boyfriend put on his CV then, "I only like finance a little bit but that's okay because I built a school in Uganda"? :rolleyes:



    As for the OP, perhaps try and ask for feedback on your applications that were rejected and ask what you can do to improve it? Your application & uni sound really top notch so personally there's no obvious reason for them to decline without an interview (did you do online tests at all?).

    Another idea might be to ask your tutors or something? They'll most definitely be able to give you advice which is much more qualified than most people on TSR!
    You clearly don't have a clue do you? Excel monkies are dime a dozen. They're at Oxbride, UCL, Durham, Warwick, LSE, Imperial, Bath, Nottingham, Edinburgh...shall I go on? A good proportion are also the presidents of their uni funds and spent every summer at a boutique. If that wasnt enough, they learnt how to spread comps in their sleep.

    Then when youre asked "what do you do in your spare time"...what do you answer? "I analyse M&A deals for arb ops while CNBC is tearing up speakers"

    Trading floors are full of startup guys, jocks, musicians. The person who spent two years volunteering at her local Oxfam shop shows more commitment to doing something than overdosing on DCF models.

    Try having a 'normal' conversation with a banker after spending the last 30 mins talking about indicators. What can he ask you apart from finance if he's seen 5 internships and 'VP of Finance Society'???

    Build a school in Uganda or teach english in China...I know who I would prefer to interview.
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    Paul Allen:

    Yes, I call/network always – regardless of rejections etc. I always ask how I can improve and so on. Last year they offered great advice – I followed it – this year they are clueless themselves what else to say. (not saying I’m perfect in any way, just relaying what they said).

    I agree that my university/experience does not mean I am entitled to a job or even an interview. Like I said, I’m not hear to moan, I’m here for advice. It is disappointing however, to see people from ’10-20 unis’ not even upload CVs, network etc and still get offers (trust me, I have seen those). Yes, there are also those people from all types of universities who genuinely want a position and they have every right to get one!

    My CV is not loaded with only finance stuff. I have volunteered at a well-known charity (3 years), do several sports/outdoor activities and am captain of one of them, president/chairman of a non-finance society too, founder of something, own an online business, and several other non-finance things. Being well rounded is very important, and that was the positive feedback I actually got from my BB interview. Negatives were over technical questions – but that doesn’t explain the lack of interviews otherwise.

    Funnily enough, I was told not to build a school in Uganda as its ‘so typical’ to show ‘all-roundedness’.

    HeyyImRyan:

    Yes I have asked for feedback. They either read my application and act genuinely surprised, or give me the usual lines ‘competition is tough, economy etc’.

    I have done the tests, on time. Pretty sure I passed them as I called up HR and most banks said that if you get an automated rejection email within 5 working days then you failed the test. I’m assuming I did fine (the interview I did get I needed to complete a test for).
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    (Original post by charles-perry)
    Hey all!

    Graduate in 2013, first class undergrad so far (finance, maths etc), couple of unknown IBD boutique internships, solid CV otherwise (EC's, sports, etc), posted it up on TSR and got good comments (will try and find the link and post it), networked like anything and have done literally everything I can to get through the process. Have shown it to a CV specialist on here too - adjusted it dramatically - sent it out to over 40 boutiques in London (and cold-called several of them) - still no luck.

    I have no summer offer lined up. Only 1 interview from 50+ applications - at a top M&A BB (who said my application was one of the strongest they received for IBD). Not moaning, showing off or whining.... but

    What do I do now? Im looking to get into Trading full-time because Ive lost interest in IBD (not because of rejection, but because I have had some time to review what I actually like/don't like)

    - GMAT etc for Masters? Even if I get a summer offer for next year I won't get a grad offer until 2014 right?
    - Do CISI exams for trading/trade my own account etc.
    - Sports/voluntary work etc
    - Something else?

    (Original post by Kerpal)
    A very good friend of mine was faced with the same problem in his penultimate year of uni.

    He went and spent the summer with some friends in the West Country collecting money door to door for St. John's Ambulance.

    Now has one of the best jobs out of all us in Private Equity.

    Don't let it get you down. Don't waste your summer sitting in your pants eating pringles though.
    Can you guys give me advice if you don't mind, in terms of what I should do in my summer, i'm a 1st year.... but I want to do Islamic IB...any ideas? I know many of the top IB's have areas focused on that area especially in the Middle East but they don't do anything like that for experience.
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    (Original post by charles-perry)
    Paul Allen:

    Yes, I call/network always – regardless of rejections etc. I always ask how I can improve and so on. Last year they offered great advice – I followed it – this year they are clueless themselves what else to say. (not saying I’m perfect in any way, just relaying what they said).

    I agree that my university/experience does not mean I am entitled to a job or even an interview. Like I said, I’m not hear to moan, I’m here for advice. It is disappointing however, to see people from ’10-20 unis’ not even upload CVs, network etc and still get offers (trust me, I have seen those). Yes, there are also those people from all types of universities who genuinely want a position and they have every right to get one!

    My CV is not loaded with only finance stuff. I have volunteered at a well-known charity (3 years), do several sports/outdoor activities and am captain of one of them, president/chairman of a non-finance society too, founder of something, own an online business, and several other non-finance things. Being well rounded is very important, and that was the positive feedback I actually got from my BB interview. Negatives were over technical questions – but that doesn’t explain the lack of interviews otherwise.

    Funnily enough, I was told not to build a school in Uganda as its ‘so typical’ to show ‘all-roundedness’.

    HeyyImRyan:

    Yes I have asked for feedback. They either read my application and act genuinely surprised, or give me the usual lines ‘competition is tough, economy etc’.

    I have done the tests, on time. Pretty sure I passed them as I called up HR and most banks said that if you get an automated rejection email within 5 working days then you failed the test. I’m assuming I did fine (the interview I did get I needed to complete a test for).
    You see when you listed couple of boutique internships, I couldnt fail to see my way past a one page CV with 3 internships or something of the sort. While ECs and other 'rounded' crap was throw at the bottom in interests.

    If you are that well rounded and everything on paper looks hunky dory, chances are other people are having the same problems whether they study at LSE or some other fine university worshipped here. Things like this make me question how hard someone is trying when Wall St has a bunch of nontargets getting in every year...
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    (Original post by Paul Allen)
    You see when you listed couple of boutique internships, I couldnt fail to see my way past a one page CV with 3 internships or something of the sort. While ECs and other 'rounded' crap was throw at the bottom in interests.

    If you are that well rounded and everything on paper looks hunky dory, chances are other people are having the same problems whether they study at LSE or some other fine university worshipped here. Things like this make me question how hard someone is trying when Wall St has a bunch of nontargets getting in every year...
    To be honest, Education/Experience takes up about 40% of my CV as it stands. The rest are not thrown into the interests section.... theres a good chunk of my CV dedicated to well-rounded activities.

    Im not sure if others have problems/don't... I simply came on here seeking advice about what to do now. I have not got many suggestions from my own network, other then to keep applying, but its pointless doing the same thing over and over if somethings going wrong.

    Im sure a lot of non targets try very hard and are successful. I know quite a few non targets who work very hard for their position and I'm sure they deserve it. It doesn't mean I am not trying as hard as them in any way.... it just means they got lucky/are doing something I am not etc.
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    (Original post by charles-perry)
    but its pointless doing the same thing over and over if somethings going wrong.


    it just means they got lucky/are doing something I am not etc.
    I think we have your first flaw and second.
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    (Original post by Paul Allen)
    I think we have your first flaw and second.
    Please explain.... esp first one. I always believed if something isn't working out, change your strategy.

    The 'something I am not' bit is what Im trying to work out atm.
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    (Original post by charles-perry)
    Please explain.... esp first one. I always believed if something isn't working out, change your strategy.

    The 'something I am not' bit is what Im trying to work out atm.
    If your asking why you didn't get an internship...there are far more qualified applicants than places...quite obviously, luck plays a significant role (Its pretty funny how these threads invariably turn into desperate efforts to rationalize the logic of hiring).

    If your asking what to do, the answer is anything. Just keep filling up the CV and keep making applications. Obviously, it is quite late but just move to the less popular areas like shipbroking. Work experience > Anything else.

    It does seem that trading is going to be quite a tricky area though (I think JPM just fired 10% of equities today, for example) and the required skills are changing fast (decent programming skills is the NKI)...just my 2 pence though.
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    (Original post by charles-perry)
    Please explain.... esp first one. I always believed if something isn't working out, change your strategy.

    The 'something I am not' bit is what Im trying to work out atm.
    Sometimes there isnt anything wrong and all you can keep doing is trying. Giving up and hoping to rebrand yourself doesnt always work.

    why are you trying to do what others are trying to do? You are asking for things that can help you but doing it because someone else did it and had luck doesnt mean it will work for you. Im sure the first person that built a school in uganda probably did get into med school or GS TMT. He/she is probably now enrolled at HBS kicking ass. These nontargets are unique because they are doing something others are not.
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    To be fair, going to a non target doesn't mean that they do unique things. I know a lot of people at targets who are unique as well as non targets. It depends on the person rather then their university IMO. I also know people are targets/non targets who do the 'typical/standard' things and get through the process. So I definitely so agree with the luck comment.*

    I wasn't asking why I didn't get an internship... I'm confused over why one BB firm would think my application is one of the strongest they received and yet I'm not interviewed elsewhere. Rejection after interview to me is acceptable because at least they have given you the chance to prove yourself. Then if you mess up its your fault. To reject on an application basis means something was wrong with my application but no one I show can figure out what (and I have shown tonnes of people).*This is what I meant before - sending the same application over and over make no sense.

    I'm not trying to do what others do/copy and hope it works out for me. Suggestions generate ideas which can be useful in deciding how I want to spend the summer. I do see your point though - merely here for suggestions which may be useful.

    I also have to consider that this is my third attempt to break into a BB and next time will be my 4th (although I would have rejected myself in attempt 1 lol yes I was that bad!)

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