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Racism when will it end?

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    (Original post by roadlesstravelled)
    just out of interest, do you think gender is a social construct?
    Gender yes, sex no.
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    (Original post by whyumadtho)
    Why not? Do you intend to read it?
    you have different genetic differences from your parents, as you say. but that does not make you asian does it.

    asian babies do not just pop out of european mothers arbitrarily.

    sure, every single individual has genetic difference but still group differences exist.
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    (Original post by Captain Haddock)
    Gender yes, sex no.



    so you think women act differently from men because of social constructs?

    so men are more violent in general not because of their elevated levels of testosterone and other genetic factors, but because of social constructs?
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    (Original post by roadlesstravelled)
    they meant skin colour. the tribal person he was talking was black. he sort of put his hand to his face and said the other tribe were really black.

    i've been looking on youtube for clip but can't seem to find it. the presenter was black british guy with long dreadlocks? i think he may have been a historian? he was on a few programmes around that period to do with various historical tehmes-- still not sure if it was bbc or channel 4.
    ah okay, i have 3 presenters in mind, one who's in a wheelchair so it probably wasnt him.

    doubt it will be, but he isnt any of these was he?

    Andy Akinwolere
    Ore Oduba
    Lizo Mzimba
    ?
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    (Original post by resentment.)
    ah okay, i have 3 presenters in mind, one who's in a wheelchair so it probably wasnt him.

    doubt it will be, but he isnt any of these was he?

    Andy Akinwolere
    Ore Oduba
    Lizo Mzimba
    ?
    no, these guys are all childrens presenters. this guy was a more serious presenter. he was quite young, with sort of shoulder length dreadlocks.

    i'll take another look on google.
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    (Original post by roadlesstravelled)
    you have different genetic differences from your parents, as you say. but that does not make you asian does it.

    asian babies do not just pop out of european mothers arbitrarily.

    sure, every single individual has genetic difference but still group differences exist.
    Why have these been defined continentally?

    Why are 'races' not defined by blood groups?
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    Sigh. This is getting rather tiresome, not to mention off topic. Why don't you just set aside an hour or two to read about these things for yourself? There's really nothing controversial about gender or race being social constructs.
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    When we all morph into a kind of beige mixed race society, which is a long way off. On the subconscious level, racism is just the brains way of telling you not to trust the guys from the other tribe, which was great 10,000 years ago, today not so much.

    On the other hand, concious racial discrimination is falling and will mostly likely continue to fall for the foreseeable future.
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    (Original post by whyumadtho)
    Why have these been defined continentally?

    Why are 'races' not defined by blood groups?


    the races were forged over 10s of thousands of years on their prospective continents. thats why.


    they have lived separate from each other for 10s of thousands of years up until recently.

    all non sub saharan africans have between 1% to 5% neanderthal dna. so those who moved out of africa merged with another species whereas those who stayed behind did not.

    the process that forged the races cannot just be undone by a few years of exposure to a new environment.
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    When looking at large groups of people, there are obvious differences between different races. I don't believe there's anything wrong with that, only if you judge people before knowing them based on this fact would I say it's wrong. It's why you see asians mostly having asian friends and black people mostly having black friends (again, looking at large groups of people before someone points out they're the black guy in their group of friends). Maybe it's genetic differences, maybe it's culture or where their from, maybe it's to do with how they were brought up by their parents. Everyone is not born the same and the differences are greater between people from different backgrounds. If you can't acknowledge differences between people of different sex and race/nationality and call it sexism and racism, you can only be described as either ignorant or self righteous.
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    (Original post by roadlesstravelled)
    the races were forged over 10s of thousands of years on their prospective continents. thats why.


    they have lived separate from each other for 10s of thousands of years up until recently.

    all non sub saharan africans have between 1% to 5% neanderthal dna. so those who moved out of africa merged with another species whereas those who stayed behind did not.

    the process that forged the races cannot just be undone by a few years of exposure to a new environment.
    There are multiple alleles that transgress conventional 'racial' lines and reveal a different pattern of population clusters. At what point do we stop using genetic markers to define population clusters? Ensure you read the quotes in the long post on page 4.

    Why is 'race' not defined by hair colour, height, eye colour, etc. which are also products of genetic drift? What exactly goes into 'race' and why?
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    Now there are pills to reduce conditional racism! google it
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    (Original post by whyumadtho)
    There are multiple alleles that transgress conventional 'racial' lines and reveal a different pattern of population clusters. At what point do we stop using genetic markers to define population clusters? Ensure you read the quotes in the long post on page 4.

    Why is 'race' not defined by hair colour, height, eye colour, etc. which are also products of genetic drift? What exactly goes into 'race' and why?
    humans share 60% of their dna with bananas.

    98% with chimpanzees.

    that minute difference between the homo sapien races is not insignificant.
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    (Original post by roadlesstravelled)
    humans share 60% of their dna with bananas.

    98% with chimpanzees.

    that minute difference between the homo sapien races is not insignificant.
    Taxonomically, it is. 0.1/0.001% dissimilarity is insignificant.

    You haven't answered my questions. Why is 'race' not defined by other allele clusters caused by genetic drift, like changes in hair colour, eye colour, average height, facial structure, blood group, etc.? Why has one arbitrarily chosen 'set' of allele frequencies that corresponds to the continents been chosen?

    There are allele clusters that do not correspond to broad notions of 'race', so why are these not 'races' in themselves? How precise do we go when determining when genetic drift is enough to designate as something distinct?
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    (Original post by whyumadtho)
    Taxonomically, it is. 99.9/99.999% similarity is insignificant.

    You haven't answered my questions. Why is 'race' not defined by other allele clusters caused by genetic drift, like changes in hair colour, eye colour, average height, facial structure, blood group, etc.? Why has one arbitrarily chosen 'set' of allele frequencies that corresponds to the continents been chosen?

    There are allele clusters that do not correspond to broad notions of 'race', so why are these not 'races' in themselves? How precise do we go when determining when genetic drift is enough to designate as something distinct?


    you are starting to stretch the meaning of race.

    your logic can even be used to blur species distinction. for example, why even class a dog as a canine and not feline when dogs and cats both have 4 legs and fur - for all intents and purposes dogs and cats are the same with a few genetic differences. therefore dogs and cats are social constructs.

    where do you draw the distinction? why are dogs not classed as cats blah blah blah.

    where are the distinctions between africans and orientals? europeans and asian?
    well, they start with blatent physical differences.

    genetics proves that the differences are not just skin deep.

    the races are products of thousands of years of geographical and environmental seperation.


    thats nature.

    edit:

    if humans share 60% of their dna with fruit then the 0.001% difference between races is significant.
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    (Original post by roadlesstravelled)
    you are starting to stretch the meaning of race.

    your logic can even be used to blur species distinction. for example, why even class a dog as a canine and not feline when dogs and cats both have 4 legs and fur - for all intents and purposes dogs and cats are the same with a few genetic differences. therefore dogs and cats are social constructs.

    where do you draw the distinction? why are dogs not classed as cats blah blah blah.

    where are the distinctions between africans and orientals? europeans and asian?
    well, they start with blatent physical differences.

    genetics proves that the differences are not just skin deep.

    the races are products of thousands of years of geographical and environmental seperation.


    thats nature.

    edit:

    if humans share 60% of their dna with fruit then the 0.001% difference between species is a significant.
    When they can no longer reproduce with fertile offspring, generally.

    Phylogenetic difference are typically via the difference of a single allele.

    There are no 'races' and you still have yet to provide evidence that refutes those academics. There are gradients and population clusters that are not marked by 'race'. Is there a 'pure European person' or a 'pure African person' as a reference point? What is your reference point other than an arbitrary 'set' of allele frequencies that create a circular argument? What makes somebody more European than somebody else?

    "Although conventional ‘racial’ categories as typically understood may not be defined by particular genetic markers, ‘pockets of populations’ living in particular geographical locales could be so defined." (McCann-Mortimer et al., 2004).

    This is becoming tedious.
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    (Original post by whyumadtho)
    When they can no longer reproduce with fertile offspring, generally.

    Phylogenetic difference are typically via the difference of a single allele.

    There are no 'races' and you still have yet to provide evidence that refutes those academics. There are gradients and population clusters that are not marked by 'race'. Is there a 'pure European person' or a 'pure African person' as a reference point? What is your reference point other than an arbitrary 'set' of allele frequencies that create a circular argument? What makes somebody more European than somebody else?

    "Although conventional ‘racial’ categories as typically understood may not be defined by particular genetic markers, ‘pockets of populations’ living in particular geographical locales could be so defined." (McCann-Mortimer et al., 2004).

    This is becoming tedious.



    what makes somebody more european in terms of race than someone else?????

    ok, this is becoming obscene. a debating 'candid camera' even.
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    (Original post by roadlesstravelled)
    what makes somebody more european in terms of race than someone else?????

    ok, this is becoming obscene. a debating 'candid camera' even.
    Are all Europeans genetically homogeneous because they are 'white'? If not, which population is 'more white' than the other and by what measure?

    What alleles determine 'whiteness' and 'blackness', given there is significant skin colour variation within Europeans and Africans?
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    (Original post by whyumadtho)
    Are all Europeans genetically homogeneous because they are 'white'? If not, which population is 'more white' than the other and by what measure?

    What alleles determine 'whiteness' and 'blackness', given there is significant skin colour variation within Europeans and Africans?



    i dont know about whiteness. the south east asians have whitish skin -- japanese women have porcelin white skin.


    i suppose the skin colour of a north korean is the same as the skin colour of a typical european.

    but, skin colour is the most superficial aspect of race.


    have you ever seen an albino african? they do not look european or south east
    asian even slightly.

    south east asians do not look europan and vice versa.


    i keep on saying it. race is a product of tens of thousands of years of group seperation.

    this is a normal biological process.
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    (Original post by roadlesstravelled)
    i dont know about whiteness. the south east asians have whitish skin -- japanese women have porcelin white skin.


    i suppose the skin colour of a north korean is the same as the skin colour of a typical european.

    but, skin colour is the most superficial aspect of race.


    have you ever seen an albino african? they do not look european or south east
    asian even slightly.

    south east asians do not look europan and vice versa.


    i keep on saying it. race is a product of tens of thousands of years of group seperation.

    this is a normal biological process.
    Yeah, I was just using it as a single example. 'Whiteness' refers to the 'white' racial classification and 'blackness' to the 'black' classification. What is the 'purest' example of these 'races' if they are taxonomically significant. What defines these 'races'?

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