[py0alb]

(Original post by FrigidSymphony)
This is one of the few areas where I disagree with my party's (the SNP) policy. Raising minimum alcohol prices does nothing to combat the problem of alcoholism, it merely reinforces class differences, limiting the poor's access to alcohol while leaving the rich free reign. Similarly with raising the tax on tobacco, soon a hacking cough will be a symbol of wealth.

The British government just seems to have it ass-backwards when it comes to fighting alcoholism. Reducing opening hours for bars and clubs? That's just heightening the problem- people have less time to drink, so they'll drink more in fewer hours. Everywhere else in Europe has clubs open till 6-7 in the morning.

Things they should be doing at a local level via licencing conditions:

seats and tables available for minimum 80% of venue capacity
lower music levels before 10pm
tax slashed for draft beer
ban 2 for 1 without an equivalent 1/2 price alternative
free refills on postmix
free daily newspapers available
other sources of entertainment such as pool tables and quiz machines encouraged

basically anything that encourages people to sit and chat and enjoy their drinks at a sensible pace, rather than standing at the bar doing shots.


One of the major factors in the increase in binge drinking is the way bars have deliberately encouraged it to get higher turnover, by taking away seats and turning up the music. When people can't hear each other and are forced to just stand there holding their drinks, they tend to plough through pints at about twice the normal rate.

[SpongebobSquarepan]

(Original post by py0alb)
One of the major factors in the increase in binge drinking is the way bars have deliberately encouraged it to get higher turnover, by taking away seats and turning up the music. When people can't hear each other and are forced to just stand there holding their drinks, they tend to plough through pints at about twice the normal rate.

I agree with you there

[Sagacious]

(Original post by SpongebobSquarepan)
P.S why can't people just go out and have a couple of drinks instead of getting bladdered. Then we wouldn't be in this predicament.

'People' can just go out and have a couple of drinks.

It's just us 'Brits' and our stupid drinking culture.

[SpongebobSquarepan]

(Original post by Sagacious)
'People' can just go out and have a couple of drinks.

It's just us 'Brits' and our stupid drinking culture.

it's a stain on our country

[HighestKungFu]

(Original post by the bear)
neg be with you glasshopper

And with you as well Sir Snoberton of Snobville.

[concubine]

(Original post by Waitingname)
But if you're someone who is capable of drinking sensibly, you're also likely someone who can hold down a steady job and tolerate a MINUSCULE price increase.

Also, if you're one of those clearly responsible types who gets smashed all the time and claims they don't cause trouble, and this will end up costing you a lot more, maybe you should, you know, drink less? Thus preserving your health and finances? Would that actually be such a hardship?

herp derp functioning alcoholics don't exist I know **** all but wanna look smart herrrrrrpp

[py0alb]

(Original post by SpongebobSquarepan)
I agree with you there

Treat people like animals, and they'll behave like animals. If you make it clear to people how we expect them to behave after a few pints, they won't disappoint you. If you herd people into these huge rooms with no seats and blaring music and serve them pints of tasteless pigswill and have the police waiting outside for when the "inevitable" kicks off, how the **** do you expect them to behave?

If we actually focused on the good things instead: how great beer can taste when you savour it, how it helps you feel relaxed and friendly, not aggressive and impulsive, then maybe people might start acting a little differently.

[SpongebobSquarepan]

(Original post by py0alb)
Treat people like animals, and they'll behave like animals. If you make it clear to people how we expect them to behave after a few pints, they won't disappoint you. If you herd people into these huge rooms with no seats and blaring music and serve them pints of tasteless pigswill and have the police waiting outside for when the "inevitable" kicks off, how the **** do you expect them to behave?

If we actually focused on the good things instead: how great beer can taste when you savour it, how it helps you feel relaxed and friendly, not aggressive and impulsive, then maybe people might start acting a little differently.

I'm starting to find myself agreeing to you, fair play.

[n00]

(Original post by py0alb)
Treat people like animals, and they'll behave like animals.

So social conditioning is to blame for alcohol increasing aggression in animals too? Getting confused you're all over the place.

[curtis871]

(Original post by Lightnix)
So under this price tariff the minimum prices for things would go something like this:

Carlsberg (500ml can, 1.9 units): 76p (currently usually around £1)
20 unit bottle of spirit: £8 (currently £10 for something cheap and nasty)

It strikes me that this is probably only really going to increase the costs of things like 2L bottles of dodgy sounding ciders like "white ace".

That's fine if you only ever buy your drinks singularly. Some of us buy crates or get multibuy offers

[NDGAARONDI]

(Original post by buchanan700)
Well that's good too. However that's a completely seperate argument. We are talking about a new minimum pricing on alcohol, just so you know.

Not really. You consume products that put a strain on the state services, then additional tax is being advocated. If you apply it to one, apply it to all. Otherwise there are legitimate criticisms that the ruling elite is just imposing a set of morals on the working classes. I rarely ever see binge drinking in media and political discourse to mean the middle aged couple who can't lay off a glass of wine, just for one day. Good way to put on weight without resorting to junk food. It's amusing that this concept has come from a political party that often trumps the value of the free market. Minimum prices, such as these, go against this.

(Original post by Electronica)
Ok, cakes are an exception, but on the whole there is a tendency to people paying more on unhealthy products. I am a firm believer in taxing whatever is causing the country to have a problem and it seems that obesity is a very real problem (especially up here in Scotland!). I don't think educating people is enough, some people only see colours and numbers. Fat foods should perhaps be taxed more like you said.

This minimum alcohol pricing legislation is a tax on getting drunk, it is not a tax on drinking. The only things that conceivably will be affected by it is Asda's own vodka and crazy 20% cheap cider immitations. Anyone who drinks alcohol in the correct and safe mindset should not be put off by minimum alcohol pricing. 40p equates to 80p for a cider - it's hardly going to burn a hole in someones pocket.

It's not the price that bothers me because I hardly drink alcohol. I've only recently got a passport for my military application so without other forms of ID, I don't bother buying alcohol in supermarkets, because I'll have some cashier who can't tell I'm 18 when I'm 10 years senior to that. It is the principle of raising the tax to deal with problematic users as a concept. Do we raise road tax because of an increase in car crashes? If they taxed unhealthy foods far more rigorously I wouldn't object. I imagine there would be outrage if an airliner decided to add a surcharge to passengers because they weigh over a given weight even though they are consuming more fuel than someone lighter who may have only a little extra luggage.

[EssexDan86]

(Original post by curtis871)
That's fine if you only ever buy your drinks singularly. Some of us buy crates or get multibuy offers

Exactly! It's unfair on the responsible majority to deny access to these decent offers. The UK population is under enough financial pressure in a whole range of other areas as it is.

Just because I can buy crates of Carlsberg on 3 for 2 deals doesn't mean I'm going to drink the entire lot in one sitting! It just means I'll stock up for whenever it's needed and make a good saving

This legislation will probably result in car ferry operators cashing in by laying on special offers on Channel crossings, and the tax that the government COULD have gained from selling the booze will instead go to the French, who sell alcohol for far cheaper and have far less of a social problem with it.

[I<3LAMP]

Weird that the drinks affected mainly will be beer/cider (slow savouring bevvies) but the wine, vodka, whiskey, & similar strong spirits will be on average pretty similar in price to how they are now. People may just switch to hard core booze and give their livers a solid pounding?

You tend to get better deals on crates these days & 3 for £12 deals on wine so festival drinking will be a pain in the A now then.

How this will stop bingeing I have no idea, those who wanna drink in bars/clubs will still do so but pre-drink at a higher cost as the bars/clubs will still be more expensive. What will happen is the chavs will spend more of their *cough* hard earned *cough* cash on crap drinking and those who drink responsibly will have to drink less/ spend more. It isn't a huge rise in prices but annoying that the dickheads of society ruin it for the rest of us.

When do the prices start changing, April?

[n00]

(Original post by py0alb)
I already gave you a source, jesus christ.

You're not seriously talking about that opinion piece by a think tank described as a PR front for the drinks industry from the BBC are you?

For a alleged man of science you dont half cherry pick some moronic *******s to backup your nonsence about alcohol.

[curtis871]

(Original post by EssexDan86)
Exactly! It's unfair on the responsible majority to deny access to these decent offers. The UK population is under enough financial pressure in a whole range of other areas as it is.

Just because I can buy crates of Carlsberg on 3 for 2 deals doesn't mean I'm going to drink the entire lot in one sitting! It just means I'll stock up for whenever it's needed and make a good saving

This legislation will probably result in car ferry operators cashing in by laying on special offers on Channel crossings, and the tax that the government COULD have gained from selling the booze will instead go to the French, who sell alcohol for far cheaper and have far less of a social problem with it.

As well as stocking up it's also stopping groups all putting a few quid in to bulk buy between 10+ of them. There's enough people that can't realistically head to France for the day often enough that they wont loose any money from it.

(Original post by I<3LAMP)
Weird that the drinks affected mainly will be beer/cider (slow savouring bevvies) but the wine, vodka, whiskey, & similar strong spirits will be on average pretty similar in price to how they are now. People may just switch to hard core booze and give their livers a solid pounding?

You tend to get better deals on crates these days & 3 for £12 deals on wine so festival drinking will be a pain in the A now then.

How this will stop bingeing I have no idea, those who wanna drink in bars/clubs will still do so but pre-drink at a higher cost as the bars/clubs will still be more expensive. What will happen is the chavs will spend more of their *cough* hard earned *cough* cash on crap drinking and those who drink responsibly will have to drink less/ spend more. It isn't a huge rise in prices but annoying that the dickheads of society ruin it for the rest of us.

When do the prices start changing, April?

"The aim is to introduce legislation in autumn after a summer consultation, with the minimum price coming into force in 2014."

from https://apps.facebook.com/theguardia...pes=news.reads

[Crawfords]

oh great, raised tuition and raised alcohol

[py0alb]

(Original post by n00)
You're not seriously talking about that opinion piece by a think tank described as a PR front for the drinks industry from the BBC are you?

For a alleged man of science you dont half cherry pick some moronic *******s to backup your nonsence about alcohol.

Of course, you're completely right, hundreds of rigorous academic studies become rendered meaningless "nonsence" (lol) simply because you happened to read about them on the bbc website rather than directly from the journals.

Everyone is funded by someone.

[n00]

(Original post by py0alb)
Of course, you're completely right, hundreds of rigorous academic studies become rendered meaningless "nonsence" (lol) simply because you happened to read about them on the bbc website rather than directly from the journals.

Everyone is funded by someone.

It was your source.

Come on how can it purely be down to social conditioning, if we see the exact same reaction in animals? You've been subject to the social conditioning as well what makes you so special it has no effect on you?

[py0alb]

(Original post by n00)
It was your source.

Come on how can it purely be down to social conditioning, if we see the exact same reaction in animals? You've been subject to the social conditioning as well what makes you so special it has no effect on you?

What reaction in animals?

[sii217]

(Original post by silverbolt)
Yes that results in lower binge drinking. Has nothing to do with the extra revunue this will bring in in taxes

will it?

not at all?

Thankfully wont effect me for very long, im jumping this sinking ship as soon as possible and heading to a decent country

Me too, word is beer comes in pints in Middle Earth