[Fuzzpig]

Hey all, I'm looking for a good example of any of the above or similar. It's incredibly difficult to find them though though google. I've even googled search terms like "Most known health scams" and so on.

Have you heard of any of the above?

Here's one I've found - A 'healer' named Ray who is a medium. He channels the spirit of 2000-years-dead 'Paul', a Christian from the Roman era who was beheaded for spreading the word of Christ.

http://raybrownhealing.com/

Raymond Brown, the unique trance medium who for the past forty five years has worked with Spiritual Surgeon Paul of Tarsus who lived on the earth plane over two thousand years ago. Ray works in a deep state of trance in a very natural way with Paul to provide spiritual healing/surgery to his patients. Together, Paul and Raymond have treated thousands of patients with all manner of illnesses from sciatica and disc problems, frozen shoulders, carpal tunnel, joint pain, tennis elbow, arthritis, rheumatism, IBS, stomach pain, endemetriosis, hiatus hernia, infertility, eyes, ear, nose, and throat problems, MS and ME, neurological conditions, heart conditions, stroke, and much more.

Raymond and Paul have been working in this way for over four decades, thus allowing Paul to successfully treat thousands of people including doctors, surgeons, millionaires and celebrities, as well as all manner of illnesses and conditions. Paul specialises in neuro-surgery, but is also a heart surgeon.

Unfortunately his site doesn't really contain enough information for me to work on.



Any examples you have come across would be very much appreciated whilst I continue to trawl through the internet.


Feel free to discuss what you think about Ray Brown and his associate spirit healer 'Paul'. Are you shocked that people can believe in this sort of thing? Do you believe? What is your opinion on mediums?





(mods I'm sorry I genuinely have no idea what forum this should be in)

[translucent]

Very sceptical when it comes to people who believe they can see spirits/dead people
http://digitaljournal.com/article/315722

[Fuzzpig]

(Original post by translucent)
Very sceptical when it comes to people who believe they can see spirits/dead people
http://digitaljournal.com/article/315722

This kind of thing really annoys me. They make innocent, impressionable people believe that they have some kind of evil spirit around them, and then charge them for the pleasure of having it 'removed'. It beggars belief that people will fall for it, but they obviously can and do.

In the Ray Brown case I posted, his testimonials include lawyers and psychology PhDs among others. It makes me wonder if these are real testimonials. But then again, this guy is apparently pretty well known for this area of 'healing'. As a psychology student, I cannot fathom how someone with this type of interest or academic persuasion could under any circumstances believe in something like this.

[Snagprophet]

You can generalise mediums. There are fakes and there are legits. The legit ones never ask you question, other than 'does this make sense to you?' and should never ask for facts. If a complete stranger manages to accurately represent a characteristic of a dead relative then I'd call that legit. If they do it like 'oh, any dead relatives? Oh your gran? Yeah she loves you. NEXT!' then there's no evidence, no logic. It has to be treated like a science, in fact legit mediums would call themselves scientists.

The problem with these shows like Most Haunted is that everything can easily be faked. If you actually experience a stranger giving you messages from someone which makes sense to you, and refers to actual events in your life, then I'd probably call it legit, but even that depends on how vague their messages are.

[translucent]

(Original post by aliluvschoc)
This kind of thing really annoys me. They make innocent, impressionable people believe that they have some kind of evil spirit around them, and then charge them for the pleasure of having it 'removed'. It beggars belief that people will fall for it, but they obviously can and do.

In the Ray Brown case I posted, his testimonials include lawyers and psychology PhDs among others. It makes me wonder if these are real testimonials. But then again, this guy is apparently pretty well known for this area of 'healing'. As a psychology student, I cannot fathom how someone with this type of interest or academic persuasion could under any circumstances believe in something like this.

Ray Brown provides convincing short term healing, stomach pains, joint pains, and all other pains. As a psychology student yourself, you should be aware you can condition people into 'feeling' as if they have been healed. for example I was watching this show and a test was done whether labels/advertising manipulates people into thinking something is elite and good quality. The something here was wine, two bottles of wine was used in the experiment. 1 expensive and 1 cheap bottle of red wine. Beforehand people were asked what kind of wine they like, almost all said expensive wine is more delicious. How the test worked: the labels on the bottles of wine were swapped, so the 'expensive' wine was in fact the cheap wine with the wrong label.

Results: Most people found the 'cheap' wine to be of weak taste, bad quality and unpleasant. Whereas the 'expensive' wine favoured popular and they found it to be sweet, rich...

I think I've slightly gone off topic here, but people can be easily sub-consciously manipulated.

In some countries there are thousands of churches claiming to heal people from being possessed by devils, or becoming witches. There is religous link in these cases.

Spoiler:

Show

I've tried searching for the interesting TV series I saw on sky 1, however, I can't rememeber the name there was 2/3 episodes about power, sexual attraction, humour and lots of psychological experiments.

[translucent]

(Original post by Snagprophet)
You can generalise mediums. There are fakes and there are legits. The legit ones never ask you question, other than 'does this make sense to you?' and should never ask for facts. If a complete stranger manages to accurately represent a characteristic of a dead relative then I'd call that legit. If they do it like 'oh, any dead relatives? Oh your gran? Yeah she loves you. NEXT!' then there's no evidence, no logic. It has to be treated like a science, in fact legit mediums would call themselves scientists.

The problem with these shows like Most Haunted is that everything can easily be faked. If you actually experience a stranger giving you messages from someone which makes sense to you, and refers to actual events in your life, then I'd probably call it legit, but even that depends on how vague their messages are.

Just a quick search on facebook under the table while the person is blissfully unaware will get them all the information they need to fabricate a convincing lie. By the way, would you regard it as legit or you can see why it is believable from another persons perspective? you sound like you have some experience with mediums..

[geetar]

I typed in 'psychic medium' into Google, there are gazillions of the bastards.

There was a programme on ITV a few years back called Have I Been Here Before? They took a bunch of C list celebrities, and hypnotised them into revealing their past lives. Hilolrious.

[Mr. Tizzy XII]

Have you heard of Dr. Steven Novella and "The Skeptics guide to the Universe"?

He's a Neurologist and advocate of critical thinking / skepticism who runs a podcast "The Skeptics guide to the Universe" and a blog - NueroLogica blog.

If you read some of his blog posts / listen to a few podcasts, a big focus point is 'quacks' and raising awareness about them (along with discussing new science). Perhaps you might find those resources helpful?

[spiritint]

(Original post by translucent)
Quack Ray Brown claims healing, stomach pains, joint pains, and all other pains. As a psychology student yourself, you should be aware you can condition people into 'feeling' as if they have been healed. for example I was watching this show and a test was done whether labels/advertising manipulates people into thinking something is elite and good quality. The something here was wine, two bottles of wine was used in the experiment. 1 expensive and 1 cheap bottle of red wine. Beforehand people were asked what kind of wine they like, almost all said expensive wine is more delicious. How the test worked: the labels on the bottles of wine were swapped, so the 'expensive' wine was in fact the cheap wine with the wrong label.

Results: Most people found the 'cheap' wine to be of weak taste, bad quality and unpleasant. Whereas the 'expensive' wine favoured popular and they found it to be sweet, rich...

I think I've slightly gone off topic here, but people can be easily sub-consciously manipulated.

In some countries there are thousands of churches claiming to heal people from being possessed by devils, or becoming witches. There is religous link in these cases.

Spoiler:

Show

I've tried searching for the interesting TV series I saw on sky 1, however, I can't rememeber the name there was 2/3 episodes about power, sexual attraction, humour and lots of psychological experiments.

Quacks and con men use the vulnerable. Quack builder Ray Brown charges enormous fees from easy target ill victims.

[Pandabär]

Maybe look in the back of newspapers and magazines for women? I reckon I may have seen some adverts there once or twice. As for spiritual healers, I think most of their work is advertised through word-of-mouth, as there's probably massive legal issues regarding their claims.

[spiritint]

(Original post by geetar)
I typed in 'psychic medium' into Google, there are gazillions of the bastards.

There was a programme on ITV a few years back called Have I Been Here Before? They took a bunch of C list celebrities, and hypnotised them into revealing their past lives. Hilolrious.

(Original post by geetar)
I typed in 'psychic medium' into Google, there are gazillions of the bastards, quackery at its best is Ray Brown

There was a programme on ITV a few years back called Have I Been Here Before? They took a bunch of C list celebrities, and hypnotised them into revealing their past lives. Hilolrious.

there are gazillions of the bastards, Ray Brown money from the bank accounts of the ill who are having tough times.

[JollyGreenAtheist]

It all deeply disturbs me that individuals will happily manipulate consciences and emotions to make money.

I would advocate legislation against this kind of poppycock. The inability to provide evidence and the ease with which this nonsense can be proved demonstrably false and misleading suggests to me that it is exclusively a scam. People that scam other people out of money in other fields of work are liable to be prosecuted for fraud; this should be no different.

[translucent]

(Original post by spiritint)
Quacks and con men seek out the needy, the Quack builder Ray Brown charges enormous fees from easy to target ill victims.

I know.

[JollyGreenAtheist]

(Original post by Snagprophet)
You can generalise mediums. There are fakes and there are legits. The legit ones never ask you question, other than 'does this make sense to you?' and should never ask for facts. If a complete stranger manages to accurately represent a characteristic of a dead relative then I'd call that legit. If they do it like 'oh, any dead relatives? Oh your gran? Yeah she loves you. NEXT!' then there's no evidence, no logic. It has to be treated like a science, in fact legit mediums would call themselves scientists.

The problem with these shows like Most Haunted is that everything can easily be faked. If you actually experience a stranger giving you messages from someone which makes sense to you, and refers to actual events in your life, then I'd probably call it legit, but even that depends on how vague their messages are.

There is no evidence or logic behind any kind of medium or psychic. The difference between the two types that you described is that one group is an amateur con artist, and the other is a professional.

[Sabertooth]

I can give you a great example of a quack doctor.

I saw a new psychiatrist because I moved area. My symptoms are paranoia and hallucinations. Her response? "note down your dreams so I can analyze them".


And there was me thinking Freudian dream analysis had been discredited years ago.

[spiritint]

(Original post by translucent)
Ray Brown provides convincing short term healing, stomach pains, joint pains, and all other pains. As a psychology student yourself, you should be aware you can condition people into 'feeling' as if they have been healed. for example I was watching this show and a test was done whether labels/advertising manipulates people into thinking something is elite and good quality. The something here was wine, two bottles of wine was used in the experiment. 1 expensive and 1 cheap bottle of red wine. Beforehand people were asked what kind of wine they like, almost all said expensive wine is more delicious. How the test worked: the labels on the bottles of wine were swapped, so the 'expensive' wine was in fact the cheap wine with the wrong label.

Results: Most people found the 'cheap' wine to be of weak taste, bad quality and unpleasant. Whereas the 'expensive' wine favoured popular and they found it to be sweet, rich...

I think I've slightly gone off topic here, but people can be easily sub-consciously manipulated.

In some countries there are thousands of churches claiming to heal people from being possessed by devils, or becoming witches. There is religous link in these cases.

Spoiler:

Show

I've tried searching for the interesting TV series I saw on sky 1, however, I can't rememeber the name there was 2/3 episodes about power, sexual attraction, humour and lots of psychological experiments.

QUACKS Unfortunately there are more dangerous problems with Religious Fake healers like Ray Brown, people need more awareness.

[stevie2]

(Original post by aliluvschoc)
Hey all, I'm looking for a good example of any of the above or similar. It's incredibly difficult to find them though though google. I've even googled search terms like "Most known health scams" and so on.

Have you heard of any of the above?

Here's one I've found - A 'healer' named Ray who is a medium. He channels the spirit of 2000-years-dead 'Paul', a Christian from the Roman era who was beheaded for spreading the word of Christ.

http://raybrownhealing.com/


Unfortunately his site doesn't really contain enough information for me to work on.



Any examples you have come across would be very much appreciated whilst I continue to trawl through the internet.


Feel free to discuss what you think about Ray Brown and his associate spirit healer 'Paul'. Are you shocked that people can believe in this sort of thing? Do you believe? What is your opinion on mediums?





(mods I'm sorry I genuinely have no idea what forum this should be in)

I used to be involved in spiritualism years ago.

I had no idea I was involved in satans deceitfull spiritual realm at the time of course.

Its typical for a demon to disguise theselves as a biblical character, paul of tarsus for example became a follower of Jesus Christ.

Knowing Gods word and its warnings about satans deceptions, paul would not have anything to do with a deception of satan.

[ufo2012]

Well there is a very famous TV medium who comes to mind - does that Haunted show on TV now and then.

Whether he is real or not, well only he knows.

[spiritint]

(Original post by translucent)
Ray Brown provides convincing short term healing, stomach pains, joint pains, and all other pains. As a psychology student yourself, you should be aware you can condition people into 'feeling' as if they have been healed. for example I was watching this show and a test was done whether labels/advertising manipulates people into thinking something is elite and good quality. The something here was wine, two bottles of wine was used in the experiment. 1 expensive and 1 cheap bottle of red wine. Beforehand people were asked what kind of wine they like, almost all said expensive wine is more delicious. How the test worked: the labels on the bottles of wine were swapped, so the 'expensive' wine was in fact the cheap wine with the wrong label.

Results: Most people found the 'cheap' wine to be of weak taste, bad quality and unpleasant. Whereas the 'expensive' wine favoured popular and they found it to be sweet, rich...

I think I've slightly gone off topic here, but people can be easily sub-consciously manipulated.

In some countries there are thousands of churches claiming to heal people from being possessed by devils, or becoming witches. There is religous link in these cases.

Spoiler:

Show

I've tried searching for the interesting TV series I saw on sky 1, however, I can't rememeber the name there was 2/3 episodes about power, sexual attraction, humour and lots of psychological experiments.

Quacks - Ray Brown

[spiritint]

(Original post by stevie2)
I used to be involved in spiritualism years ago.

I had no idea I was involved in satans deceitfull spiritual realm at the time of course.

Its typical for a demon to disguise theselves as a biblical character, paul of tarsus for example became a follower of Jesus Christ.

Knowing Gods word and its warnings about satans deceptions, paul would not have anything to do with a deception of satan.

FAKE HEALER Ray Brown who disguises as a biblical character