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Graduate jobs - why are starting salaries so low?

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    (Original post by Joinedup)
    Traditionally you could get into what we now refer to russel group unis with BBC at A level... you can't talk about grades now and grades then as if they're the same thing.

    Anyway employers probably know what they actually want better than you know what they want... and if they decide not to discriminate against post 92's it's because they've decided it's not important, rather than dosser students cheating the system.
    You are right about being unable to compare grades across "eras".

    My offers in 81 were:

    CCC from Exeter (Geophys with Eng Geol)
    BC from Bath (Geophys)
    CC from QMUL, (long title..nuclear engineering)
    EE from Essex (Physics with Laser Technology)

    Grad employment prospects were dire then, IT was new and paid well.

    I think many employers are differentiating between pre and the majority of post 92 Unis, indirectly, and they do it by having a UCAS points filter. Obviously if someone has good A level grades but goes to their local post 92 Uni (maybe a sick parent needs care), then they will pass that filter and why not if they have good A levels, obtained a good degree, and know what they are talking about at interview and most of all, have great interpersonal skills. But if a student attended the same Uni with BCC standard offer grades they will struggle with a significant number of employers due to the UCAS points filter.

    Once you have a couple of years experience, and a track record of delivery, then UCAS points and degree classifications lose their significance in most fields.
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    (Original post by evening sunrise)
    You are right about being unable to compare grades across "eras".

    My offers in 81 were:

    CCC from Exeter (Geophys with Eng Geol)
    BC from Bath (Geophys)
    CC from QMUL, (long title..nuclear engineering)
    EE from Essex (Physics with Laser Technology)

    Grad employment prospects were dire then, IT was new and paid well.

    I think many employers are differentiating between pre and the majority of post 92 Unis, indirectly, and they do it by having a UCAS points filter. Obviously if someone has good A level grades but goes to their local post 92 Uni (maybe a sick parent needs care), then they will pass that filter and why not if they have good A levels, obtained a good degree, and know what they are talking about at interview and most of all, have great interpersonal skills. But if a student attended the same Uni with BCC standard offer grades they will struggle with a significant number of employers due to the UCAS points filter.

    Once you have a couple of years experience, and a track record of delivery, then UCAS points and degree classifications lose their significance in most fields.
    Ta - I think we've had this conversation before. durham wanted BBC for electrical eng in 87.

    A levels might be a more sensible thing to filter on anyway for the majority of graduate schemes... even assuming the empty vessels theory of education not many places are going to care if you know 20% more medieval art history.

    Possibly they want 21 yearolds with an A level education and HE is providing a queueing service (I think this was a nulli tertius hypothesis) - possibly there's some transferable benefit of 'graduateness' that isn't predicted for by 'uni prestige'.
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    (Original post by Samtheman1)
    When I said wrong, I meant what the poster was saying about graduates being worth more than an employee in his/her 50's coming to the end of his career. The reason this is wrong is because the older employee would have greater experience/contacts/specific company knowledge that would be impossible for a new grad to have.

    That is why all of the companies you have listed above whilst all above £25k, pay more as you increase in experience. For example I started as a grad at PwC in 2007 in London and my salary increase from the start of £28k to when I left 3.5years later at £42k. This was due to increased experience (and not necessarily increased workload).
    I remember having the same conversation with my colleagues in our first year there, with a couple whinging that £28k in London was not enough, and after a long debate we did actually come up with the fact that at the time, we didnt really contribute a hell of a lot to warrant the salary in the first place.

    But hey, at the end of the day - you are worth what someone is willing to pay you (in financial terms).
    Thats all true, which is why the 'high' pay is for potential not just current performance. Just as savings accounts pull people in with a teaser rate to rip money out of them in 12 months time.
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    What is the average UCAS point cut off for IT graduate jobs (assuming there is one)?

    Also, I take it that it only counts your A2 results and disregards AS?

    The only one I'm aware of is Consultancy at Accenture which is 340 (I got 320 )
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    (Original post by RipperRoo)
    What is the average UCAS point cut off for IT graduate jobs (assuming there is one)?

    Also, I take it that it only counts your A2 results and disregards AS?

    The only one I'm aware of is Consultancy at Accenture which is 340 (I got 320 )
    Most are 320, I too got 320.
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    My first Grad role was £15.5k pa :eek:

    It quickly rises though if you're good at what you do and can prove the value. I do chuckle though when I see people assuming just because they have a degree, they'll be worth 20k, 25k, 30k+ to a company.
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    (Original post by Reue)
    My first Grad role was £15.5k pa :eek:

    It quickly rises though if you're good at what you do and can prove the value. I do chuckle though when I see people assuming just because they have a degree, they'll be worth 20k, 25k, 30k+ to a company.
    Really? Why?

    Pretty much chemistry student can do a sandwich year placement and get £15k.

    I don't think the OP assumes because they have a degree they can get £25k+, but they might feel they are better than the average graduate and be able to get more than the average salary of £19k.

    You might have started on £15,500, but for person on that they'll be someone else on £23,500.
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    (Original post by Reue)
    My first Grad role was £15.5k pa :eek:

    It quickly rises though if you're good at what you do and can prove the value. I do chuckle though when I see people assuming just because they have a degree, they'll be worth 20k, 25k, 30k+ to a company.
    £15,500 a year is exactly what i am earning as a software developer; but i only have a HND.
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    (Original post by Caderousse)
    Chwirkytheappleboy - thanks, I tried to reply but post needed approving by moderator.



    Read it in the newspaper, I think it was referring to IT related graduate jobs though.

    You can go on the Prospects website and see for yourself.
    Don't believe EVERYTHING you read in the newspapers or hear on the news. This may sound cynical but the news is only what the media want you to know, it's not the complete picture.

    A couple of months ago, the Sunday Times and Telegraph each had a separate article about tutors getting paid £1000 per hour plus holidays and apartments. Turns out it was only ONE tutor and even then it was debatable.
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    (Original post by Reue)
    My first Grad role was £15.5k pa :eek:

    It quickly rises though if you're good at what you do and can prove the value. I do chuckle though when I see people assuming just because they have a degree, they'll be worth 20k, 25k, 30k+ to a company.
    When you took that first grad job, did you have a decent idea of how quickly your salary would rise if you did reasonably well?
    Most people I have spoken to find this the most important reason to go for places with high starting salaries. Even those are sometimes hard to find out (or you won't find out until you get an offer as all sources just say 'competitive salary), and information on salary progression is hard to find.
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    (Original post by inksplodge)
    Yes, they may be buying potential, but you still can't expect to walk into a job with a high salary. If you have no experience why should they pay that much for you? As I said, you have to earn it. £20k is not something you should turn your nose up at esp with the competition for grad roles these days.

    I agree but why are management consultancies paying stupid money like this:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education...bs-market.html

    What makes her worth £45K, with at most 22 years experience, assuming she started working from birth?
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    (Original post by warmday)
    I agree but why are management consultancies paying stupid money like this:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education...bs-market.html

    What makes her worth £45K, with at most 22 years experience, assuming she started working from birth?
    Because management consultancies have loads of money, and missing out on their preferred candidates would be much more expensive for them than paying them a few thousands extra.
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    (Original post by Y__)
    Because management consultancies have loads of money, and missing out on their preferred candidates would be much more expensive for them than paying them a few thousands extra.
    There's a formula one analogy... that the driver who's slightly faster is worth massively more than the others. OTOH consultancy firms might just be using the prestige and glamour of oxbridge graduates to overcharge their clients for piling inexperienced know-nothings into their companies. :unsure:
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    (Original post by warmday)
    I agree but why are management consultancies paying stupid money like this:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education...bs-market.html

    What makes her worth £45K, with at most 22 years experience, assuming she started working from birth?
    She'll be generating more then £45k for her employer. That's not her fault, that's for her clients to worry about as they're the ones paying over the odds when they could try and hire someone to keep this work in house.

    I'm a consultant working between IT and Geoscience disciplines in the operators, and have been for the past few months since I graduated last year. I make my company around £180k a year, if not more. This isn't a significant amount of money in the grand scheme of things but is important to note when I take home less then this management consultant.

    I could give you a business case for why I'm worth £180k. I can't do the same for her as I don't have a clue what she does, but I imagine her day rate, if that's how she is sold will be large. Large enough for her to pay back her employer twice over, probably more.
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    (Original post by Herr Stamper)
    She'll be generating more then £45k for her employer. That's not her fault, that's for her clients to worry about as they're the ones paying over the odds when they could try and hire someone to keep this work in house.

    I'm a consultant working between IT and Geoscience disciplines in the operators, and have been for the past few months since I graduated last year. I make my company around £180k a year, if not more. This isn't a significant amount of money in the grand scheme of things but is important to note when I take home less then this management consultant.

    I could give you a business case for why I'm worth £180k. I can't do the same for her as I don't have a clue what she does, but I imagine her day rate, if that's how she is sold will be large. Large enough for her to pay back her employer twice over, probably more.
    Only sales people make money, unless you sell you are just a cost to the employer.
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    (Original post by nojoegohome)
    Only sales people make money, unless you sell you are just a cost to the employer.
    Barely true, and then only superficially. Clearly other employees add value, which makes them rather more than 'just a cost'.
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    (Original post by nojoegohome)
    Only sales people make money, unless you sell you are just a cost to the employer.
    I understand what you're saying, but thats a very black and white way to view it. A sales manager and consultant is just a title. When on site im a consultant, a sales man and ultimately an asset to my employer. I'd be surprised if a consultant didn't try and create value for its employer when on site.
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    (Original post by Y__)
    When you took that first grad job, did you have a decent idea of how quickly your salary would rise if you did reasonably well?
    Most people I have spoken to find this the most important reason to go for places with high starting salaries. Even those are sometimes hard to find out (or you won't find out until you get an offer as all sources just say 'competitive salary), and information on salary progression is hard to find.
    Nope, infact it was only a 9 month contract with no promise or even hint of going permenant.

    In the current job environment, i was lucky to get even that.
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    (Original post by Herr Stamper)
    I understand what you're saying, but thats a very black and white way to view it. A sales manager and consultant is just a title. When on site im a consultant, a sales man and ultimately an asset to my employer. I'd be surprised if a consultant didn't try and create value for its employer when on site.
    All of my managers so far have viewed it that way. If my managers could outsource my job they would do it in a heart beat.
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    (Original post by nojoegohome)
    All of my managers so far have viewed it that way. If my managers could outsource my job they would do it in a heart beat.
    Sorry whats your job?

    A consultancy firm cannot outsource either its sales team or consultants.

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Updated: April 10, 2012
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