Graduate jobs - why are starting salaries so low?

I've picked up a few brochures from my university and checked out some IT job websites, and found that excluding the most competitive companies (like PwC, Exxon, Shell etc.) the starting salaries seem to be just over £20,000. The average starting salary last year was around £25,000, so it seems like a waste of three years going into anything way below this, especially considering some training programs pay about £20,000.

Maybe I'm looking in the wrong place... where can I find some good companies that take new graduates? I'm just about to finish a CS degree.

Reply 1

Chwirkytheappleboy

17

Try looking at Consultancy firms, such as Detica, Accenture, Deloitte, CHP Consulting etc. Salaries with them are generally around the £28-35k range, and Accenture give you a £10k joining bonus

(edited 12 years ago)

Reply 2

Caderousse

OP

Original post by Chwirkytheappleboy

Try looking at Consultancy firms, such as Detica, Accenture, Deloitte, CHP Consulting etc. Salaries with them are generally around the £28-35k range, and Accenture give you a £10k joining bonus

I'm not expecting people to just hire me but some of those are really competitive, CHP advertises in this booklet I have - they only have a handful of vacancies, and the Big Four also have a tough application process.

I'll check out Accenture though, thanks.

Reply 3

Joinedup

20

What makes you think the average starting salary was 25k last year?

Reply 4

Caderousse

OP

Chwirkytheappleboy - thanks, I tried to reply but post needed approving by moderator.

Original post by Joinedup

What makes you think the average starting salary was 25k last year?

Read it in the newspaper, I think it was referring to IT related graduate jobs though.

You can go on the Prospects website and see for yourself.

Reply 5

ch0llima

16

Original post by Caderousse

I've picked up a few brochures from my university and checked out some IT job websites, and found that excluding the most competitive companies (like PwC, Exxon, Shell etc.) the starting salaries seem to be just over £20,000. The average starting salary last year was around £25,000, so it seems like a waste of three years going into anything way below this, especially considering some training programs pay about £20,000.

Maybe I'm looking in the wrong place... where can I find some good companies that take new graduates? I'm just about to finish a CS degree.

Most big companies with specific IT graduate schemes will pay £25k+, and consultancies like Detica will often pay £28-30k if you have an MSc or PhD. BT also start you off on £30k for technical roles. FWIW I've got a 2.1 Hons and MSc with Distinction.

Chances are if you're seeing jobs paying well below £25k then you're looking in the wrong place - make sure you're explicitly looking for graduate roles or, preferably, graduate schemes. Graduate schemes usually pay a good bit higher than lower-tier 'normal jobs'too. My only worry is that some consultancy/contracting outfits e.g. Fujitsu and Detica are sometimes, unjustifiably or not, frowned upon by some IT old-timers especially where graduates are involved - the terms 'snake oil salesman', 'charlatan' and 'spiv' have been bandied about a lot.

Spoiler

(edited 12 years ago)

Reply 6

Chwirkytheappleboy

17

Original post by ch0llima

Fujitsu and Detica are sometimes, unjustifiably or not, frowned upon by some IT old-timers especially where graduates are involved - the terms 'snake oil salesman', 'charlatan' and 'spiv' have been bandied about a lot.

For good reason. Having worked for a couple of consultancies I can say for sure that most of what is sold as "off the shelf" is actually Vaporware. Projects almost always go over time and over budget, and blame is always placed squarely on the client so that full fees can be charged and the provider can make claims to new/potential customers that they have a perfect delivery record except where clients haven't fulfilled their side of the bargain.

In fairness to grads though it's not usually their fault. The marketing/pre-sales teams are generally staffed by fairly senior people who make ridiculous promises and sell pieces of work that are impossible to achieve, and then say to the grad developers "right you've got 2 months to do a year's worth of work"

Reply 7

Joinedup

20

25k was a widely reported figure based on a survey of agr members. People critiqued it here when it came out but it's basically an average of a small number of the best paying employers... The hesa survey which asks what all graduates with jobs are earning says its a tad under 20k.
20k+ is a definate win for your first job.

Reply 8

Chwirkytheappleboy

17

Original post by Caderousse

I'm not expecting people to just hire me but some of those are really competitive, CHP advertises in this booklet I have - they only have a handful of vacancies

They don't take on a lot of people but the number of vacancies is generally a guide; they don't have a set quota like the Big 4 tend to have. If you impress them then they'll take you on. I was a Consultant with CHP after I graduated so if you're thinking of applying let me know and we can talk about it

Original post by Caderousse

I've picked up a few brochures from my university and checked out some IT job websites, and found that excluding the most competitive companies (like PwC, Exxon, Shell etc.) the starting salaries seem to be just over £20,000. The average starting salary last year was around £25,000, so it seems like a waste of three years going into anything way below this, especially considering some training programs pay about £20,000.

Maybe I'm looking in the wrong place... where can I find some good companies that take new graduates? I'm just about to finish a CS degree.

Because the companies you've listed are not IT or software companies themselves. They don't make money from IT or software; it is not their business. I used to work for a company similar to Shell and Exxon and the function that IT people generally have in such companies is to create user accounts for new employees and to keep the computer hardware up to date and functioning.

Starting salaries are higher in dedicated IT companies and software development houses.

Reply 10

CyclopsRock

11

Because most graduates have spent 20-odd years in full time education but don't actually know their arse from their elbow, basically. Having someone well educated is important, but right off the bat they're often more of a hinderance to a company than a help - not to mention the enormous risk of taking someone on who, often times, has had little in the way of work in that field. Even work experience is of limited use, because you're usually given the dogs-body jobs and, besides, people rarely get sacked from work placements because they're only temporary anyway. A company has no way of knowing if they're hiring a really switched on, quick-learning asset, or a mentally backwards doldrum. This is why salaries often rise pretty quickly in the few years afterwards, before settling again a bit more after that.

(edited 12 years ago)

Reply 11

maturestudy

12

Original post by CyclopsRock

Because most graduates have spent 20-odd years in full time education but don't actually know their arse from their elbow, basically. Having someone well educated is important, but right off the bat they're often more of a hinderance to a company than a help - not to mention the enormous risk of taking someone on who, often times, has had little in the way of work in that field. Even work experience is of limited use, because you're usually given the dogs-body jobs and, besides, people rarely get sacked from work placements because they're only temporary anyway. A company has no way of knowing if they're hiring a really switched on, quick-learning asset, or a mentally backwards doldrum. This is why salaries often rise pretty quickly in the few years afterwards, before settling again a bit more after that.

True.

One of the reasons I got out of the IT circus was that I couldn't face teaching another cohort of CS graduates to forget everything they learned at university and learn about real-world programming.

Reply 12

Quady

20

Original post by Caderousse

I've picked up a few brochures from my university and checked out some IT job websites, and found that excluding the most competitive companies (like PwC, Exxon, Shell etc.) the starting salaries seem to be just over £20,000. The average starting salary last year was around £25,000, so it seems like a waste of three years going into anything way below this, especially considering some training programs pay about £20,000.

Maybe I'm looking in the wrong place... where can I find some good companies that take new graduates? I'm just about to finish a CS degree.

The average UK salary was £25k, the average graduate starting salary is more like £19k.

People earn more as they get older - who'd have thunk it.

As others have said, if you want more apply for jobs over £25k, if you're any good its quite doable to get around £30k.

Reply 13

Quady

20

Original post by Smack

Because the companies you've listed are not IT or software companies themselves. They don't make money from IT or software; it is not their business. I used to work for a company similar to Shell and Exxon and the function that IT people generally have in such companies is to create user accounts for new employees and to keep the computer hardware up to date and functioning.

Starting salaries are higher in dedicated IT companies and software development houses.

I'm pretty sure Shell / Exxon have some pretty sophisticated customised trading platforms.

Reply 14

ch0llima

16

Original post by maturestudy

True.

One of the reasons I got out of the IT circus was that I couldn't face teaching another cohort of CS graduates to forget everything they learned at university and learn about real-world programming.

To be fair, I think this is a problem with the way CS is taught in this country rather than the graduates themselves - most "Computer Science" courses are just production lines for mediocre programmers and rote learning textbook bludgers, high and mighty because they've got a piece of paper telling them that they've successfully passed exams in often unimportant hokum.

The mate I mentioned earlier who works at IBM... he claims never to have touched Big-O notation or half of what he learned about data structures and algorithms, because he just doesn't need to even though he's in a deep development role and has worked on mainframe systems. Similarly, I'm specialising in security and don't need half of the things on my security MSc course on a daily basis.

There's a broad education, then there's shafting your students. I'm sure students would be much greater assets in the workplace if they were actually taught to do things an employer might want. Many aren't. Granted, they should be making their own efforts but should be encouraged to do so. Again, many aren't.

Original post by Quady

I'm pretty sure Shell / Exxon have some pretty sophisticated customised trading platforms.

They do. All the financial houses do as well.

(edited 12 years ago)

Reply 15

Quady

20

Original post by ch0llima

They do. All the financial houses do as well.

Now developing and providing service management for that is a bit more tricky than user access control.

Original post by Quady

I'm pretty sure Shell / Exxon have some pretty sophisticated customised trading platforms.

Which may possibly be outsourced. The IT company my dad works for does some pretty high level stuff for BP, who outsource it to them.

Reply 17

KimKallstrom

14

Original post by Caderousse

I've picked up a few brochures from my university and checked out some IT job websites, and found that excluding the most competitive companies (like PwC, Exxon, Shell etc.) the starting salaries seem to be just over £20,000. The average starting salary last year was around £25,000, so it seems like a waste of three years going into anything way below this, especially considering some training programs pay about £20,000.

Maybe I'm looking in the wrong place... where can I find some good companies that take new graduates? I'm just about to finish a CS degree.

Gee, I dunno. Could be because people fresh out of uni have done F all.

Reply 18

Quady

20

Original post by Smack

Which may possibly be outsourced. The IT company my dad works for does some pretty high level stuff for BP, who outsource it to them.

Of course it may, which leaves the higher level work, business relationship/requirements, supplier management and strategy stay with the retained function of the company.

(ie I know someone in BP's IT strategy team whos on around £175k)