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Critics of Halal slaughter and meat - do you genuinely care?

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    Usually I try not to think how the animal I've just eaten was killed; halal doesn't bring about nice images.
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    (Original post by de_monies)
    And here's something much more recent
    http://www.rspca.org.uk/servlet/Sate...&ssbinary=true
    That report claimed that Halal slaughter is painful and distressing to animals, except under ideal circumstances, most of which are enforced by the government - pre-stunning and whatnot.

    Halal in its purest, tribal form is inhumane.
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    (Original post by Tudball)
    That report claimed that Halal slaughter is painful and distressing to animals, except under ideal circumstances, most of which are enforced by the government - pre-stunning and whatnot.

    Halal in its purest, tribal form is inhumane.
    It says that over 90% of halal meat is prestunned in the UK, ergo nothing different than standard meat, except for a prayer

    However of course, you keep your outdated links if it allows you to try and use sources to somehow prove that you only really have something against Islam, than halal meat
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    (Original post by de_monies)
    It says that over 90% of halal meat is prestunned in the UK, ergo nothing different than standard meat, except for a prayer

    However of course, you keep your outdated links if it allows you to try and use sources to somehow prove that you only really have something against Islam, than halal meat
    Two of my articles were more current than your report.

    And I hate when this gets brought up.
    "You hate X, because you just hate Islam!"
    I can't have a candid discussion with you people, because any sign of disagreement is construed as racist or xenophobic. Please, get a grip.

    I expressed my reasons why I disagree with Halal, and I presented supporting evidence. There's nothing to indicate that I have anything against Islam itself.
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    (Original post by Tudball)
    Two of my articles were more current than your report.

    And I hate when this gets brought up.
    "You hate X, because you just hate Islam!"
    I can't have a candid discussion with you people, because any sign of disagreement is construed as racist or xenophobic. Please, get a grip.

    I expressed my reasons why I disagree with Halal, and I presented supporting evidence. There's nothing to indicate that I have anything against Islam itself.
    Who's "you" people. How do you even know if I'm Muslim at all. I pointed an article to the RSPCA, which showed the very latest results, not some article from 2003 or something like that

    I've had proper discussions with people before, who've accepted the RSPCA article
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    (Original post by de_monies)
    Who's "you" people. How do you even know if I'm Muslim at all. I pointed an article to the RSPCA, which showed the very latest results, not some article from 2003 or something like that

    I've had proper discussions with people before, who've accepted the RSPCA article
    That's selective. One of my articles was from 2010, the other from 2009 - after that report had been published, and they both cited independent think-tanks who concluded that Halal was overly cruel; not that the BBC are to be discredited either.

    "You people" is any of the annoying todgers who take a reasonable statement and attempt to construe it as racist. I just dislike the practice of Halal; I don't see how anything else I've said could lead you to such a presumptive conclusion.
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    I know this is bleak, but bear with me here.

    I'd like to hear why it actually matters if a cow is in pain or not for the final 5 seconds of its life. I'm sure it does, I just can't remember why.

    Oh, and "you'd care if it was a human" is not a sufficient explanation.
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    The fact that it is a religious ritual is what bugs me because one day someone's going to pull some nonsense out of their arse saying that I have made it part of my culture.
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    (Original post by Tudball)
    That report claimed that Halal slaughter is painful and distressing to animals, except under ideal circumstances, most of which are enforced by the government - pre-stunning and whatnot.

    Halal in its purest, tribal form is inhumane.
    As is eating meat, racism and fascism
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    (Original post by Tudball)
    That's selective. One of my articles was from 2010, the other from 2009 - after that report had been published, and they both cited independent think-tanks who concluded that Halal was overly cruel; not that the BBC are to be discredited either.

    "You people" is any of the annoying todgers who take a reasonable statement and attempt to construe it as racist. I just dislike the practice of Halal; I don't see how anything else I've said could lead you to such a presumptive conclusion.
    The one from 2010 was from the daily mail. Also, news sites can often get things wrong. ie: a friend that really really studies nutrition showed me how stupid a red meat article was (from the BBC of all places :eek: )

    The RSPCA article has previously said bad things about halal meat, so it's not like it's biased, so I'm guesing this prestunning things is pretty recent. How is it that when the animal is killed in the exact same way, except for a prayer different to how an animal is normally killed

    If you dislike the way halal meat has been killed, then logically you should dislike how other meat is killed, because they both now do the exact same thing (except for the prayer)
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    (Original post by Gridiron-Gangster)
    As is eating meat, racism and fascism
    I'll qualify that as "comparatively inhumane" for the pedants. :unimpressed:
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    (Original post by ALII)
    Oxygen is halal.. yep that's right stop breathing now
    Lol good one, it's true. Can't believe you got negative repped.
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    (Original post by Tudball)
    I'll qualify that as "comparatively inhumane" for the pedants. :unimpressed:
    Like I said killing a living creature for gastronomic gratification is in my opinion just as cruel whether its done by stunning or by halal there's no two ways about it and frankly I do tend to agree that those making a fuss about it do so possibly to disguise their own feelings of xenophobia or hatred etc. It's a bit like stabbing someone to death or shooting them in the head or gassing them. Ok one may be less painful than the other but either way all three lead to the same outcome.

    As much as you find halal or kosher barbaric or more so than conventional methods, I find both methods/ the eating of meat equally barbaric and repulsive. However I don't judge people based on that as it's their lifestyle choice at the end of the day. I mean yesterday I went down the Curry Mile in Manchester which as you may or may not know is full of Asian (well Pakistani mainly) eateries serving a vast array of curries, kebabs etc about 99% of which is meat dishes and of the halal variety. Now this time last year when I wasn't a veggie it wouldn't have been an issue. Fast forward to now well I wouldn't say it was an issue as I did manage to get me some vegetarian food but in some aspects it did repulse me to see so many people guzzling the flesh and carcasses of murdered innocent living creatures. Just a thought.

    As for it being a religious ritual, I don't agree with that necessarily as IMO if there is a good and he created animals etc then surely killing animals is taking away the souls of one of his/her creatures and I think it rubs even more salt to the wound performing a sacrifice "in the name of GOD". HOWEVER......it's a choice Jews and Muslims make and I respect that and have no problems with that whatsoever.

    But yeah like I said Halal, Kosher, Stun, it's all barbarous murder to me
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    (Original post by shush)
    i would neg you but i cant
    why because i don't agree with you

    anyway i don't really care
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    (Original post by de_monies)
    The one from 2010 was from the daily mail. Also, news sites can often get things wrong. ie: a friend that really really studies nutrition showed me how stupid a red meat article was (from the BBC of all places :eek: )

    The RSPCA article has previously said bad things about halal meat, so it's not like it's biased, so I'm guesing this prestunning things is pretty recent. How is it that when the animal is killed in the exact same way, except for a prayer different to how an animal is normally killed

    If you dislike the way halal meat has been killed, then logically you should dislike how other meat is killed, because they both now do the exact same thing (except for the prayer)
    As I stated earlier, British law has forced Halal to conform to domestic slaughter practices - there's been resistance against the enforcement of stunning from those who believe that it deviates from the exact commandants of the Qur'an.

    So, the change in stance of the RSPCA probably reflects the increasing enforcement of stunning practices to make Halal more palatable.

    Once again, as stated earlier, Halal in its purest, tribal form is much more inhumane than the procedures common to the United Kingdom.
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    This argument is always very strange, because people never really seem to identify and clear up the exact point of disagreement.

    The person who opposes Halal slaughter usually says it's because it causes the animal more pain than conventional slaughter.
    But the person who eats only Halal meat usually says it's because it causes the animal less pain than conventional slaughter.

    Well then which is it? Does it cause more pain, or less pain? I notice that people are very quick in asserting their answers to this question. But nobody ever really provides any definitive proof on the matter. Is there even any definitive proof? Or do people who eat Halal only do it because their parents told them do, and people who oppose Halal only do it because it is less aesthetically pleasing, or as the OP suggested, they are looking for another aspect of Islam to criticise?
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    I'm frankly disgusted by the way animal eaters think as long as it's painless, killing them is fine.

    Would you rather live or be given a deadly knock to the head at a random time within the next, say, 24 hours?

    Eating animals is a backwards, unhealthy, unnecessary and damaging habit that people need to open their eyes and stop doing.

    You might hate reading this, but that's because you know this is true, and guilt fills you.

    I have been trying to go vegan, and I have failed so far. It's very hard.

    But let me tell you, giving up meat is one of the easiest things I have ever given up.

    In other news, my poo has gone from brown to mustard colour :lol:
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    (Original post by tazarooni89)
    This argument is always very strange, because people never really seem to identify and clear up the exact point of disagreement.

    The person who opposes Halal slaughter usually says it's because it causes the animal more pain than conventional slaughter.
    But the person who eats only Halal meat usually says it's because it causes the animal less pain than conventional slaughter.

    Well then which is it? Does it cause more pain, or less pain? I notice that people are very quick in asserting their answers to this question. But nobody ever really provides any definitive proof on the matter. Is there even any definitive proof? Or do people who eat Halal only do it because their parents told them do, and people who oppose Halal only do it because it is less aesthetically pleasing, or as the OP suggested, they are looking for another aspect of Islam to criticise?
    Halal certainly causes longer suffering, as the animal is longer concious
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    (Original post by Gridiron-Gangster)
    it did repulse me to see so many people guzzling the flesh and carcasses of murdered innocent living creatures. Just a thought.
    "Innocent living creatures"? Is it murder when a lion hunts a gazelle in the wild? Is it murder when I kill the tick that's been feasting on my blood? I find the argument "it's cruel to kill animals for our own benefit!" one of the weakest of all tbh.
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    (Original post by Cybele)
    "Innocent living creatures"? Is it murder when a lion hunts a gazelle in the wild? Is it murder when I kill the tick that's been feasting on my blood? I find the argument "it's cruel to kill animals for our own benefit!" one of the weakest of all tbh.
    Erm well a lion doesn't have the conscience to reason ethically and determine what is right and wrong and oh yeah the obvious.....it's a wild animal! We aren't wild animals scurrying for food or hunting in packs, living in caves etc.

    As for ticks well that's a stupid counter argument. The tick is feeding on your blood and hence causing you injury/harm so you're killing it to prevent that inconvenience rather than for the gratification of hunting ticks.

    Like I said as humans we have come a long through time via evolution with the ability to think logically and rationally and through advances in scientific research etc we've been able to determine and develop alternative sources of protein etc which don't involve the slaughter of animals. I view them as innocent as I personally like to recognise that all animals have a soul/life force and that the act of slaughtering is taking away that animal's right to life, never to return. I feel sick to the stomach when seeing a hanging cow or sheep's carcass much in the same way I felt sick dissection human cadavers.

    If an animal was to attack me in the wild then of course I would use any means to protect myself even if it regretably meant having to shoot it. It's not like you can reason and negotiate with a crocodile and say "do not come any closer or I will shoot. I will give you till the count of 3 to get lost before I open fire".

    Do try and look at this from a logical point of view rather than an ignorant one.

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