[Clip]

(Original post by Einheri)
Gerard Gordeau does Savate (he fought Royce (and bit his ear) in UFC 1, and gouged out Yuki Nakai's eye in 1995 Japan Vale Tudo - very dirty fighter). It's a kind of kickboxing with shoes.

Was he the idiot that turned up wearing one boxing glove?

[Einheri]

(Original post by Clip)
Was he the idiot that turned up wearing one boxing glove?

No. That was Art Jimmerson (who tapped to Full Mount, haha).

Edit: This is Gordeau:

[Clip]

(Original post by Einheri)
No. That was Art Jimmerson (who tapped to Full Mount, haha).

Edit: This is Gordeau:

Early UFC was great, You'd get a Chunner against some wrestler with predictably funny results.

[Einheri]

(Original post by Clip)
Early UFC was great, You'd get a Chunner against some wrestler with predictably funny results.

It's hard not to laugh:



But I can't help it.

[Clip]

(Original post by Einheri)
It's hard not to laugh:



But I can't help it.

That was - of course - not real chunning, which could only be learned on the rooftops of Kowloon.

[Einheri]

(Original post by Clip)
That was - of course - not real chunning, which could only be learned on the rooftops of Kowloon.

If that was THE REAL WING CHUN the wrestler would have broken his fists on the Chunner's face due to his Iron Face technique. But that would never have happened against THE REAL WING CHUN anyway; in fact, when the wrestler shot for the double leg he would have easily reversed it with a too-deadly combination of the Seven Winds Touch of Death and the Mighty Kung-Pow Chicken techniques.

[cat herder]

(Original post by Dr. Bassman)
Yeah, I know a girl who did it. That's all I have to say about it really.

interesting. Where did she train?

(Original post by Clip)
Some French thing, isn't it?

Yes and yes it is done wearing shoes. Do I sense a bit of contempt for savate? Sounds like you guys have never actually seen anyone who's any good at it (reading between the lines). Not that I am claiming to be especially good at it...

[Dr. Bassman]

(Original post by cat herder)
interesting. Where did she train?

France >_>

I have no idea, all I know is that we once got a bit drunk and I let her beat me up for a while with her funny double kicks.

[Clip]

(Original post by cat herder)
interesting. Where did she train?



Yes and yes it is done wearing shoes. Do I sense a bit of contempt for savate? Sounds like you guys have never actually seen anyone who's any good at it (reading between the lines). Not that I am claiming to be especially good at it...

Not really. It's one of those minority systems. If it's a combat sport - all power. It's 2012, we should be way past the point where anyone thinks that a particular martial art system is in any way excellent. There are only those that can work, and those that almost always fail terribly. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Indo-Chinese Food]

(Original post by Clip)
Early UFC was great, You'd get a Chunner against some wrestler with predictably funny results.

same ufc where these retarded wrestlers got their arms snapped and their air supply choked off by gracie ju-jitsu? lol @ kiddies and their ufc

[Clip]

(Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
same ufc where these retarded wrestlers got their arms snapped and their air supply choked off by gracie ju-jitsu? lol @ kiddies and their ufc

I'm not a wrestler in the purist sense, but have trained BJJ and Judo for a fair few years.

The point is that the combat sports put an end to the myth of oriental death magic.

BJJ (not GJJ) is another form of wrestling - after all - what is Judo if not wrestling? The wrestlers and other combat sportsmen came back and sometimes beat the BJJ people. Did the martial artists ever do that? No. They disappeared back into their schools and carried on doing forms and fighting wooden dummies - and carry on deluding themselves and their students.

[Indo-Chinese Food]

(Original post by Clip)
I'm not a wrestler in the purist sense, but have trained BJJ and Judo for a fair few years.

The point is that the combat sports put an end to the myth of oriental death magic.

BJJ (not GJJ) is another form of wrestling - after all - what is Judo if not wrestling? The wrestlers and other combat sportsmen came back and sometimes beat the BJJ people. Did the martial artists ever do that? No. They disappeared back into their schools and carried on doing forms and fighting wooden dummies - and carry on deluding themselves and their students.

Nope, combat sports gave dimwit teenagers something to talk about on internet chat forums swapping youtube clips.
UFC is a joke in all proper combat circles, once the intial novelty of UFCs 1 and 2 wore off, it became a forum for the protection of wrestlers, all rule changes favoring the grapplers, america being obssessed with wrestling. Somewhere for advertisers to sell products to dimwits who think that stuff is real.


Martial arts were formed on the battle field, street fight, etc and all the sport styles of ufc owe their existence to the martial arts. The watered down versions became sports like judo which was created in the dojo to teach school kids in japan without getting hurt, and later westerners as a money making excersise for the japanese that didnt want to teach them the full jitsus.


brazilian ju jitsu is just ju-jitsu, with an emphasis on the techniques from the ground. in its purest form its a system of combat, rather than a mcdojo comabt sport.
Grappling or 'wrestling' arnt a standalone style as categorised in the ufc or wwe- it is a simply another technique used in all manor of martial arts for millenia. Ground techniques in bjj are not unique to bjj either, strikes me that you claim to train it but didnt know these basic facts. Is wikipedia down again?

[Clip]

(Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
Nope, combat sports gave dimwit teenagers something to talk about on internet chat forums swapping youtube clips.
UFC is a joke in all proper combat circles, once the intial novelty of UFCs 1 and 2 wore off, it became a forum for the protection of wrestlers, all rule changes favoring the grapplers, america being obssessed with wrestling. Somewhere for advertisers to sell products to dimwits who think that stuff is real.


Martial arts were formed on the battle field, street fight, etc and all the sport styles of ufc owe their existence to the martial arts. The watered down versions became sports like judo which was created in the dojo to teach school kids in japan without getting hurt, and later westerners as a money making excersise for the japanese that didnt want to teach them the full jitsus.


brazilian ju jitsu is just ju-jitsu, with an emphasis on the techniques from the ground. in its purest form its a system of combat, rather than a mcdojo comabt sport.
Grappling or 'wrestling' arnt a standalone style as categorised in the ufc or wwe- it is a simply another technique used in all manor of martial arts for millenia. Ground techniques in bjj are not unique to bjj either, strikes me that you claim to train it but didnt know these basic facts. Is wikipedia down again?

Yet again, all you know how to do is hurl insults; despite the fact that most of what you say is complete nonsense and not supported by anything.

The idea that BJJ is JJ with an emphasis on groundfighting....is just absurd.

From statement to statement you're just spewing out random statements which contradict the other half of what you say. Your only point seems to be to take a contrary position. You're throwing about terms like McDojo in one breath, and extolling the virtues of TCMAs in the next. You're criticising wrestling in one post, and then bigging up BJJ in the next. I think you're saying BJJ is a good thing - but you're against the UFC - the ultimate Gracie marketing tool.

You don't know what you want to say. You just know that you want to be rude.

[Clip]

BJJ is not JJ with a groundfighting bent.

BJJ is Judo with a groundfighting bent.

JJ has been nothing more than a samurai dress-up game for decades now, and if there is anything that has an over-representation of McDojos - it's generally JJ.

[Dr. Bassman]

(Original post by Clip)
Yet again, all you know how to do is hurl insults; despite the fact that most of what you say is complete nonsense and not supported by anything.

The idea that BJJ is JJ with an emphasis on groundfighting....is just absurd.

From statement to statement you're just spewing out random statements which contradict the other half of what you say. Your only point seems to be to take a contrary position. You're throwing about terms like McDojo in one breath, and extolling the virtues of TCMAs in the next. You're criticising wrestling in one post, and then bigging up BJJ in the next. I think you're saying BJJ is a good thing - but you're against the UFC - the ultimate Gracie marketing tool.

You don't know what you want to say. You just know that you want to be rude.

Wouldn't waste your time with him to be honest. You can't change his mind, this is the same guy who claimed that judo was a ground-based martial art. He's just going to be obnoxious until you stop replying.

[Einheri]

Chunners don't know 'bout my Judo powers.

[Indo-Chinese Food]

(Original post by Clip)
Yet again, all you know how to do is hurl insults; despite the fact that most of what you say is complete nonsense and not supported by anything.

The idea that BJJ is JJ with an emphasis on groundfighting....is just absurd.

From statement to statement you're just spewing out random statements which contradict the other half of what you say. Your only point seems to be to take a contrary position. You're throwing about terms like McDojo in one breath, and extolling the virtues of TCMAs in the next. You're criticising wrestling in one post, and then bigging up BJJ in the next. I think you're saying BJJ is a good thing - but you're against the UFC - the ultimate Gracie marketing tool.

You don't know what you want to say. You just know that you want to be rude.

If my entire experience of martial arts and combat styles had come from watching UFC and cage rage etc, then I wouldnt understand what was just written either

TSR is a forum full of such and probably the worst place to try and make a salient point about martial arts-I dont really know what to reply with when faced with idiotic comment that 'BJJ came from UFC marketing'

Unfortuantley i cant help posting a reply whenever i read retarded web-opinions and i need to get out of that routine becuase between you, einheri and bassman, i could waste months here and perhaps could make more breakthroughs educating chimps in a zoo.
I dont mean to sound rude, it isnt my intention, its just that martial arts and the science of unarmed combat in general has been my biggest interest for more than 10 years and it irks me to read ignorance from nobodies about the subject. Just devalues everything. The biggest problem UFC created is spread the idea of martial arts in a cage to the dimwitted unwashed masses, who would have otherwise been happliy distracted by shooting cats with air rifles, and buying 'display purposes' samurai swords and taking them to school.

[Indo-Chinese Food]

(Original post by Clip)
BJJ is not JJ with a groundfighting bent.

BJJ is Judo with a groundfighting bent.

JJ has been nothing more than a samurai dress-up game for decades now, and if there is anything that has an over-representation of McDojos - it's generally JJ.

Nah, Mcdojos today are the judo classes you see 8 year old black belts in, slowly transitioning to lesiure centres where you can join clubs like "MMA LAIR OF PAAAIN!!" where spotty ufc fans go to get half naked and lie on top of one another and sweat for 90 mins for £7.50 an evening.

Judo came from Ju jitsu, it was the simplifed version taught to japanese school kids - hence the name Ju-do, Ken-do ie the name given to sports.

I have never seen a jj class where they dress up as samurai, you spend too much time chatting trash on chat forums clearly.

Mitsuyo Maeda was a judo player who visited the uk, spain, US and central america , and early doors got his ass kicked by various wrestlers and football players in the US using his judo, by the time he got to brazil and competed in their vale tudo tournements, he had already realised that schoolroom judo wasnt enough to compete and therefore picked up elements of catch wrestling, boxing and 'kickboxing' as well as falling back to techniques of traditional ju jitsu.
Carlos and helio you will note named their new system "brazilian Ju Jitsu", not Brazilian Judo" How do you explain that genius

[Einheri]

(Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
Mitsuyo Maeda was a judo player who visited the uk, spain, US and central america , and early doors got his ass kicked by various wrestlers and football players in the US using his judo, by the time he got to brazil and competed in their vale tudo tournements, he had already realised that schoolroom judo wasnt enough to compete and therefore picked up elements of catch wrestling, boxing and 'kickboxing' as well as falling back to techniques of traditional ju jitsu.

Maeda Mitsuyo's background before Judo was in Sumo Wrestling; he had never trained in Traditional Jiu-jitsu. He certainly picked up a bit of Catch Wrestling though, very true. The major difference between modern Judo and pre-war Judo (that Maeda learned and taught) is that modern Judo focuses on "tachi-waza" (standing techniques) and pre-war Judo (or Kano Jiu-jitsu to use the term that Maeda wuld have been more familiar with) focused on "Ne-waza" (ground techniques) - the core techniques and principles are the same; just a different emphasis.

(Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
Carlos and helio you will note named their new system "brazilian Ju Jitsu", not Brazilian Judo" How do you explain that genius

Judo was widely known as Kano Jiu-jitsu well into the 20th century (Maeda left Japan in 1904, came to Brazil in 1914); in fact the term "Judo" wasn't widely used until Kano began pushing for Olympic recognition. Judo was Kano Jigoro's preferred term for it as he emphasized the practice as a "do" (a way of life), but the two terms existed together for a very long time - Jiu-jitsu was likely just the term Maeda was originally introduced to, was familiar with and so kept using. Brazilian Jiu-jitsu would have been called Brazilian Judo except for a simple preference for the more familiar term on Maeda's part.

Edit: As shown here, published in 1905:

[Clip]

(Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
Nah, Mcdojos today are the judo classes you see 8 year old black belts in, slowly transitioning to lesiure centres where you can join clubs like "MMA LAIR OF PAAAIN!!" where spotty ufc fans go to get half naked and lie on top of one another and sweat for 90 mins for £7.50 an evening.

I do not believe that there is a single Judo school in the country, possibly in the world where an 8-year old can be a 1st Dan. Judo is highly regulated and standardised - far more than almost any other combat sport or martial art.

What's wrong with fanboys practising their styles? Hasn't it been ever thus? Thirty or forty years ago, it was Bruce Lee fanboys that got into any martial art that was being taught - and some of these people eventually became the legit instructors of today. I don't see many other reasons for people starting these hobbies.

Judo came from Ju jitsu, it was the simplifed version taught to japanese school kids - hence the name Ju-do, Ken-do ie the name given to sports.

I have never seen a jj class where they dress up as samurai, you spend too much time chatting trash on chat forums clearly.

Mitsuyo Maeda was a judo player who visited the uk, spain, US and central america , and early doors got his ass kicked by various wrestlers and football players in the US using his judo, by the time he got to brazil and competed in their vale tudo tournements, he had already realised that schoolroom judo wasnt enough to compete and therefore picked up elements of catch wrestling, boxing and 'kickboxing' as well as falling back to techniques of traditional ju jitsu.
Carlos and helio you will note named their new system "brazilian Ju Jitsu", not Brazilian Judo" How do you explain that genius

Nope, sorry. You've just made most of this up. Judo is fundamentally different from Jiu-jitsu. It's not about the specific. It's about the training philosophy - a training philosophy that made JJ extinct. There is no general concept of legit TJJ any more in Japan - it has been accepted that there are only two legit JJ schools - Judo and Aikido. The Judo training philosophy was then ported on to BJJ, whilst Aikido strangely went in the opposite direction and went all quasi-religious.

The truth is that there is little sense in which BJJ isn't actually "Brazilian Judo", as BJJ has very little to do with TJJ. Judo, is however almost a specific brand name, and at the time the Kodokan didn't want people slinging it about where the syllabus had been changed.

Why am I writing this? You're just making random stuff up.