[Indo-Chinese Food]

(Original post by Clip)
You're not making sense.

I asked if you accept that JJ effectively no longer exists. You didn't answer, you just posted a link.

Firstly, Daito-ryu is a tiny organisation.

Second, it's an aiki-jitsu and I'm sure there are aikido people willing to debate the point for 1000 years with you - but for all intents and purposes, daito-ryu and other aiki-jitsu have been subsumed by aikido.

Third, Daito-ryu was formed in the wake of Judo, one of those that rejected the training method and moved toward the ki stuff instead of randori.

This is not an example of JJ being alive and well in Japan.





I don't understand what you are saying here. Judo has been a competition sport since its inception. That was the whole point. Certainly it was a competitive sport in Kano's lifetime.

What are you actually trying to say?




For the love of god - that's a BJJ competition and under BJJ rules. It is not in any way a Japanese Jujitsu competition, and any JJJ competitor entering would be fighting under BJJ rules and scoring.



So you're a BJJ practitioner are you? This amazes me as I have yet to meet one that is:

-opposed to the UFC
-for traditional martial arts
-against judo


I think you've completely lost the plot, and can only assume that you are having a laugh and just trolling for no good reason. Nothing you say makes any sense and every insult you hurl might as well apply to yourself.

In a couple of months, you've gone from being the staunch defender of chinese death magic to extolling the virtues of BJJ. The only consistent lines you have are that you continually berate anyone you believe to be a "UFC fanboy" (unusual since the UFC is exactly the kind of format promoted by BJJ), and accusing people of having no practical knowledge - but simply surfing the net for information.

Well - that appears to be exactly what you are doing.

Would you like to share with everyone exactly what your BJJ experience is?

It took you 5 days trawling the internet to come up with this pile of turd reply? youd have been better off doing 5 days of training.

firstly Daito-ryu was not "formed in the wake of Judo" it originated entirely independantly as a new ryu of jiu jitsu. And it wasnt aikido either, which was created much later by a pupil of daito-ryu. So that basically kicked the crap out of your assertion that jiu jitsu doesnt exist anymore inside 3 minutes.
You can add to that all the generic ju jitsu classes around, that dont trace any specific lineage to any of the original ryus directly, but arnt taught in rubber octagons by retards in jockey shorts.

please clarify what you are on about regarding 'chinese death magic'


Again, japanese JJ open is a jiu jitsu competition hence the name, where brazilian style and japanese style purples and upwards compete. Stop me if im going too fast for you or using too much difficult terminology.
Are you seriously saying you dont understand the concept that before brazilian JJ even left south america, japanese ju jitsu prationers had their own rules based competions?

I never claimed to be a 'practioner' i said earlier in this thread i trained gracie jj in the US included live rolling.

now answer me a question - are you a genuine newbie simply trying to sound like you know bits and pieces about these topics, or are you a bit simple generally

[Clip]

(Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
more insults

Ok. Truce.

Put all the insults and everything else aside for a moment. Start over.

What is it that you are trying to say?

There's no need to refer to the UFC or what you think of me or anything else. Also don't refer to any previous answers you have given. Just answer, if you would.

Let's keep this simple:

1. Do you believe in BJJ? Do you believe it is creditable?

2. Do you have a problem with Judo in the sense that you think it is flawed?

3. What are the styles/arts/sports (whichever title you prefer) that you consider yourself to be a practitioner of - and to what kind of experience?

[Indo-Chinese Food]

(Original post by Clip)
Ok. Truce.

Put all the insults and everything else aside for a moment. Start over.

What is it that you are trying to say?

There's no need to refer to the UFC or what you think of me or anything else. Also don't refer to any previous answers you have given. Just answer, if you would.

Let's keep this simple:

1. Do you believe in BJJ? Do you believe it is creditable?

2. Do you have a problem with Judo in the sense that you think it is flawed?

3. What are the styles/arts/sports (whichever title you prefer) that you consider yourself to be a practitioner of - and to what kind of experience?

No insults, i answered the questions you had, try answering mine- are you a genuine noob with an interest in these topics or just an attention seeking troll ?

[Clip]

(Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
No insults, i answered the questions you had, try answering mine- are you a genuine noob with an interest in these topics or just an attention seeking troll ?

I'm an attention seeking troll.

Now answer mine.

[Einheri]

(Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
Again, japanese JJ open is a jiu jitsu competition hence the name, where brazilian style and japanese style purples and upwards compete. Stop me if im going too fast for you or using too much difficult terminology.
Are you seriously saying you dont understand the concept that before brazilian JJ even left south america, japanese ju jitsu prationers had their own rules based competions?

I can't be bothered to argue with you but I should point out that Clip is correct in saying that the Japan Open is a BJJ tournament, using IBJJF rules, and the JJFJ is a BJJ federation (hence why Rickson is involved with it). Anyone is welcome to participate, of course, but it is a BJJ tournament. Practitioners often refer to BJJ simply as Jiu-Jitsu, using the older romanization rather than the modern Hepburn "Jujutsu" and often a Portugese pronunciation ("zjhoo-zjitsu") to distinguish it from Japanese Jujutsu, which is precisely why the JJFJ use the spelling Jiu-Jitsu. It's a pretty famous BJJ tournament, comparable to the European Open, and slightly less prestigious than the Pan Ams or the Brazilian National.

[Indo-Chinese Food]

(Original post by Einheri)
I can't be bothered to argue with you but I should point out that Clip is correct in saying that the Japan Open is a BJJ tournament, using IBJJF rules, and the JJFJ is a BJJ federation (hence why Rickson is involved with it). Anyone is welcome to participate, of course, but it is a BJJ tournament. Practitioners often refer to BJJ simply as Jiu-Jitsu, using the older romanization rather than the modern Hepburn "Jujutsu" and often a Portugese pronunciation ("zjhoo-zjitsu") to distinguish it from Japanese Jujutsu, which is precisely why the JJFJ use the spelling Jiu-Jitsu. It's a pretty famous BJJ tournament, comparable to the European Open, and slightly less prestigious than the Pan Ams or the Brazilian National.

The point wasnt semantics, it was that the japan Open was , under competition rules, open to all forms of competetive jiu jitsu styles, not just bjj, and clip was talking out of his backside when he said there was no other jiu jitsu styles other than bjj existing in japan today - which is sort fo indicative of the point i was making of dimwits that only have disvoered JJ through watching ufc in the last few years. I could have also referred to the AJJIF which is proably the largest JJ body in the world and encompasses all the aknowledged styles.
And your right in not bothering to argue, because you only ever end up looking more ignorant about martial arts than at any stage before.

[Einheri]

(Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
The point wasnt semantics, it was that the japan Open was , under competition rules, open to all forms of competetive jiu jitsu styles, not just bjj,

It's open to anyone who wishes to compete under IBJJF rules. Just like any local BJJ tournament is open to anyone wishing to compete under their rules. This isn't in any way unique for a Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu tournament and it's certainly no gesture towards Jujutsu.

(Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
And your right in not bothering to argue, because you only ever end up looking more ignorant about martial arts than at any stage before.

I'm not arguing with you because it's pointless; every time your argument falls down you change your position, fall back to an argument that was previously refuted, attempt some kind of circular logic or deny you ever argued for it in the first place. It's pointless.

As for being "ignorant" about martial arts . . . please, tell us more about how Judo is a ground-based system.

[Indo-Chinese Food]

(Original post by Einheri)
It's open to anyone who wishes to compete under IBJJF rules. Just like any local BJJ tournament is open to anyone wishing to compete under their rules. This isn't in any way unique for a Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu tournament and it's certainly no gesture towards Jujutsu. .

Yeh, well done for just repeating what i already said, and confirming that jiu jisu in traditional forms still exist today, which was the other thing i said. are you going to contribute any point here that hasnt been made already or is that the end, lets hope so.

(Original post by Einheri)
I'm not arguing with you because it's pointless; every time your argument falls down you change your position, fall back to an argument that was previously refuted, attempt some kind of circular logic or deny you ever argued for it in the first place. It's pointless.

As for being "ignorant" about martial arts . . . please, tell us more about how Judo is a ground-based system.

yes of course lol. until you can show me where you have actually concluded any argument without making yourself looking like a clueless schoolboy martial artist, ill just humour you on this

And do clarify this point about judo and 'ground martial arts' - you are i think mixing up the point that judo is a hugging-another-man system with the ultimate aim of falling to the ground with him. YOu can of course go back to practicing martial arts on your xbox if you like.

[Dr. Bassman]

(Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
And do clarify this point about judo and 'ground martial arts' - you are i think mixing up the point that judo is a hugging-another-man system with the ultimate aim of falling to the ground with him. YOu can of course go back to practicing martial arts on your xbox if you like.

Firstly that's not even true, given that there are many moves you can do which don't end up with the attacker on the ground and secondly that's not what you said the first time. You can admit you had (or probably have) no idea what you were talking about or you can keep digging yourself into a hole.

[Einheri]

(Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
Yeh, well done for just repeating what i already said, and confirming that jiu jisu in traditional forms still exist today, which was the other thing i said. are you going to contribute any point here that hasnt been made already or is that the end, lets hope so.

That's not what you said; you said it was a traditional Jujutsu tournament. And how does my saying that any randomer off the street can compete in it prove that traditional Jiu-Jitsu exists? I made no statements about the existence of traditional Jujutsu schools in Japan (that was clip), although as I understand it traditional Jujutsu schools have been mostly overshadowed by Judo and to a lesser extent Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and Catch/Shoot Wrestling.

(Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
And do clarify this point about judo and 'ground martial arts' - you are i think mixing up the point that judo is a hugging-another-man system with the ultimate aim of falling to the ground with him. YOu can of course go back to practicing martial arts on your xbox if you like.

You said it was ground-based. BJJ is ground-based, Judo is based around throwing, and just about every throw except Tomoe Nage, Sumi Gaeshi, Tani Otoshi and Ura Nage would ideally finish with the thrower standing.

(Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
YOu can of course go back to practicing martial arts on your xbox if you like.

XBox again? *Yawn*

[Indo-Chinese Food]

(Original post by Einheri)
That's not what you said; you said it was a traditional Jujutsu tournament. And how does my saying that any randomer off the street can compete in it prove that traditional Jiu-Jitsu exists? I made no statements about the existence of traditional Jujutsu schools in Japan (that was clip), although as I understand it traditional Jujutsu schools have been mostly overshadowed by Judo and to a lesser extent Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and Catch/Shoot Wrestling.

Nope, i said it was a jiujitsu tournement and that both bjj and traditional styles compete in, in japan - the only reason it was brought up was to show up the dimwitted mma idea that only bjj exists in terms of jiu jitsu. Go back and read my post. The point was made some time ago, so who the **** knows what point you are trying to make, apart from trying to save a little face like you usually do.

(Original post by Einheri)
You said it was ground-based. BJJ is ground-based, Judo is based around throwing.

Prove it. I said it was for school kids to learn how to throw each other to the ground, post 1272, now you prove otherwise.

(Original post by Einheri)
XBox again? *Yawn*

you only ever state rubbish and inaccuracy when it comes to martial arts topics, you can only be getting this garbage from computer games, am i wrong? Was it PS3? You usually post on the gaming forums too right?

[Indo-Chinese Food]

(Original post by Dr. Bassman)
Firstly that's not even true, given that there are many moves you can do which don't end up with the attacker on the ground and secondly that's not what you said the first time. You can admit you had (or probably have) no idea what you were talking about or you can keep digging yourself into a hole.

No youre right, there is also the hug the other guy for 10 minutes move till he gets tired, which einheri demonstrated in some world judo championship youtube clip he dug out.

this is all still consistent with the points i had already made about judo, so i still dont know what your gripe is

[Dr. Bassman]

(Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
No youre right, there is also the hug the other guy for 10 minutes move till he gets tired, which einheri demonstrated in some world judo championship youtube clip he dug out.

this is all still consistent with the points i had already made about judo, so i still dont know what your gripe is

That was BJJ IIRC.

[Indo-Chinese Food]

(Original post by Dr. Bassman)
That was BJJ IIRC.

no, he told me the 20 stone guy was a judo world champion.
he hugged and pulled on the other guys gi for a few minutes than had to sit down to get his breath back. It was impressive stuff

and befre you try and throw the curve ball that maeda was a 'judo practioner' and won most of his fights on the ground - but as has already been talked about, he was trained in 'judo' by kano, or kano ju jitsu which was far more like proper ju jitsu than any judo today you have experinced -the gracie brazilian guys do train judo inconjunction with bjj -which is almost ju jtisu in its complete form (without elements ike atemiwaza )

[Dr. Bassman]

(Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
no, he told me the 20 stone guy was a judo world champion.
he hugged and pulled on the other guys gi for a few minutes than had to sit down to get his breath back. It was impressive stuff

and befre you try and throw the curve ball that maeda was a 'judo practioner' and won most of his fights on the ground - but as has already been talked about, he was trained in 'judo' by kano, or kano ju jitsu which was far more like proper ju jitsu than any judo today you have experinced -the gracie brazilian guys do train judo inconjunction with bjj -which is almost ju jtisu in its complete form (without elements ike atemiwaza )

Yeah but it was a BJJ fight, which is typically quite different to a judo fight.

[Indo-Chinese Food]

(Original post by Dr. Bassman)
Yeah but it was a BJJ fight, which is typically quite different to a judo fight.

Youre going to have to dig that post out if you are going to suggest that.
'typically' bjj fight will involve one guy taking handles and pulling guard. this clip was two overweight guys leaning on each other till they got tired, whcih is typical of judo players.

[Dr. Bassman]

(Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
Youre going to have to dig that post out if you are going to suggest that.
'typically' bjj fight will involve one guy taking handles and pulling guard. this clip was two overweight guys leaning on each other till they got tired, whcih is typical of judo players.

Well we'll wait for the person who posted it to say. It was a BJJ fight though, I know, because if it weren't it would have been over very quickly. Two professionals with that size difference fighting would never make a good fight. It'd be impossible for the smaller guy.

[Indo-Chinese Food]

(Original post by Dr. Bassman)
Well we'll wait for the person who posted it to say. It was a BJJ fight though, I know, because if it weren't it would have been over very quickly. Two professionals with that size difference fighting would never make a good fight. It'd be impossible for the smaller guy.

Well, in this clip the smaller guy won, becuase the fatter one gased out. You need to work out which way you are going with this argument too.

[Dr. Bassman]

(Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
Well, in this clip the smaller guy won, becuase the fatter one gased out. You need to work out which way you are going with this argument too.

What argument. There is no argument. You incorrectly said that the video was a judo fight, which it wasn't. You've incorrectly said that judo is a ground-based system. You've incorrectly said that judo is just hugging each other until you both end up on the ground.

There's nothing to argue against.

[Indo-Chinese Food]

(Original post by Dr. Bassman)
What argument. There is no argument. You incorrectly said that the video was a judo fight, which it wasn't. You've incorrectly said that judo is a ground-based system. You've incorrectly said that judo is just hugging each other until you both end up on the ground.

There's nothing to argue against.

eh? didnt you just say that it cant be a judo fight becasue otherwise it wouldnt have been over with quickly and the smaller guy couldnt have won? But the exact opposite of that actually happened. And to add to the fact they didnt actually fight on the ground as in bjj, and that einheri actualy did say they were judo players

I did say before you are completly confused as to what you are bitching about and maybe jsut have a chip on your shoulder about judo or something, wich is why youre inventing things in this discussion. To clarify for you again, i said judo is a hugging/throwing/falling to the ground system for japanese school kids, i cant make that an clearer for you, so how about we all move on to somehting more interesting than judo, becuase you are becoming pitifully boring now.