[Indo-Chinese Food]

(Original post by Einheri)
"Judo is a study of techniques with which you may kill if you wish to kill, injure if you wish to injure, subdue if you wish to subdue, and, when attacked, defend yourself" - Kano Jigoro

"You may be a 14 year old black belt if you wish"

[Alpharius]

I used to study Taekwondo between the ages 7-15.

Only reason I'm not a 3rd dan blackbelt is a persistent ankle injury. Ankle injuries and a predominatly kicking martial arts do not mix. Wish I was still doing it.

[Busby_Babe]

Indo Chinese. Judo and wrestling are both practical martial arts. If anything the sporting side proves their practicality whereas TMA simply ask us to believe they are effective with no evidence. I can show you numerous videos where these martial arts have been used effectively in real world situations even by people who are seemingly low levels. I'm yet to see someone defend themselves using TMA. If you can give me examples I will happily take that back but unless you can show me examples of people using TMA to defend themselves I will remain sceptical. The burden of proof is on the person making the claims. BJJ, wrestling and judo have all proved to be effective in fights outside of sport.

[Indo-Chinese Food]

(Original post by Busby_Babe)
Indo Chinese. Judo and wrestling are both practical martial arts. If anything the sporting side proves their practicality whereas TMA simply ask us to believe they are effective with no evidence. I can show you numerous videos where these martial arts have been used effectively in real world situations even by people who are seemingly low levels. I'm yet to see someone defend themselves using TMA. If you can give me examples I will happily take that back but unless you can show me examples of people using TMA to defend themselves I will remain sceptical. The burden of proof is on the person making the claims. BJJ, wrestling and judo have all proved to be effective in fights outside of sport.

We have alrrady established these are sports not martial arts_ judo was used in japaan to teach schoolkids a safe version of ju jitsu in Phys Ed class. They have have some limited practical application in real life but that doesn't translate to being a fully fledged martiAl art. Being able to rugby tacle ddrunks in the street oesn't make rugby a martial art. Try using judo or wgrappling with someone with a kitchen knife, you would coome out of it with a various severed arteries and a few puncture wounds- judo dummies however seem to be taught they are impervious to being stabbed ( see einheri) * proper martial would teach avoidance-counter attack or isolating the weapon, not brainles clinching for a tthrow or body hug- that's spoorts competiton thinking not martial arts. Have a look at judo players in the Olympics throwing themselves to their knees trying haul opponenets down to the mat, how practtical is that on concrete do you think? And tbh I'm not interested in you provding clips of adoloscents judo throwing each other in their bedrooms. Nor would I expect proper martial artists to be filming real life encounters of them disabling attackers- I suggessted that einheri and afew of the other bright sparks to pop into a recommended martial arts institution and takke a run at the sifu or sensi in charge to see how far they got with the grappln unsurprisiingly a lot of excuses followed all the schoolboy posteuring.TV and youtube have confused the simple minded into not realising that judo and wrestling are desingd for the mats which is why they work in mma and why ufc changes rules regulary to prtect grapplers from martial Arts strikers. It isn't that I have anything against sport, I just know not to mix up what I see on TV with the real world- if martial arts had a minimum IQ requirement perhaps I wouldn't have to make those obvious points.

[Busby_Babe]

(Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
We have alrrady established these are sports not martial arts_ judo was used in japaan to teach schoolkids a safe version of ju jitsu in Phys Ed class. They have have some limited practical application in real life but that doesn't translate to being a fully fledged martiAl art. Being able to rugby tacle ddrunks in the street oesn't make rugby a martial art. Try using judo or wgrappling with someone with a kitchen knife, you would coome out of it with a various severed arteries and a few puncture wounds- judo dummies however seem to be taught they are impervious to being stabbed ( see einheri) * proper martial would teach avoidance-counter attack or isolating the weapon, not brainles clinching for a tthrow or body hug- that's spoorts competiton thinking not martial arts. Have a look at judo players in the Olympics throwing themselves to their knees trying haul opponenets down to the mat, how practtical is that on concrete do you think? And tbh I'm not interested in you provding clips of adoloscents judo throwing each other in their bedrooms. Nor would I expect proper martial artists to be filming real life encounters of them disabling attackers- I suggessted that einheri and afew of the other bright sparks to pop into a recommended martial arts institution and takke a run at the sifu or sensi in charge to see how far they got with the grappln unsurprisiingly a lot of excuses followed all the schoolboy posteuring.TV and youtube have confused the simple minded into not realising that judo and wrestling are desingd for the mats which is why they work in mma and why ufc changes rules regulary to prtect grapplers from martial Arts strikers. It isn't that I have anything against sport, I just know not to mix up what I see on TV with the real world- if martial arts had a minimum IQ requirement perhaps I wouldn't have to make those obvious points.

You're knife techniques won't work unless you train against someone actually trying to stab you which you don't.

So basically you have no evidence that any of it works yet I can show you numerous examples of people defending themselves using the MA's you rubbish. Wrestling is hugely effective as a MA, you take someone down and they can't get up that's pretty damn effective in my view. Again you can't just make these claims with no evidence it's totally irresponsible, these TMA schools send kids out thinking they are trained killers then they get their teeth knocked out by someone who's been boxing for a year.

[helen-a-ravenclaw]

Hey there!

What a coincidence I see this thread pop up the same day I consider re-starting Karate!

I trained for 7 years from when I was 10 - 17. I did 4 years at a club in Canada, and 3 years at a club in England, but I've not trained for two years for various reasons. I got to 2nd Kyu Brown Belt in that time.

I'm going to start at Nottingham Uni in September, and I'm looking to join the Karate club there.

My fitness was quite good when I was training, but over the past couple of years it's really slipped so I'm going to try to get back into shape before uni starts! (8 weeks, that possible?)

But yeah...just thought i'd say hello and see if there was anyone else who did Karate here who could give me some tips about re-starting training after a long break.

[Indo-Chinese Food]

(Original post by Busby_Babe)
You're knife techniques won't work unless you train against someone actually trying to stab you which you don't.

So basically you have no evidence that any of it works yet I can show you numerous examples of people defending themselves using the MA's you rubbish. Wrestling is hugely effective as a MA, you take someone down and they can't get up that's pretty damn effective in my view. Again you can't just make these claims with no evidence it's totally irresponsible, these TMA schools send kids out thinking they are trained killers then they get their teeth knocked out by someone who's been boxing for a year.

The evidence is there is you have any knowledge of the real world - Martial arts or TMAs as you call them, are trained by almost every military corps and special forces agents in the world, as well as many police forces - they find it particualry useful in dealing with real time threats and weapons whilst remaining outside the range of damage.

Kids these days tend to join to mma class after watching ufc in their bedrooms - wrestling has enjoyed a modern boom in popularity due to this
Knife defense are techniques in themselves, designed to keep your vitals away from being cut, depending where you train ( ie china, phillipines) and your standard, you can train with live blades too. The most relevant thing TMAs teach you is to respect your opponent, whoever they maybe, and train for ALL eventualities, as oppossed to rolling around in a cage with a sweaty fat guy. TMAs have evolved over a thousand years- you dont think someone would have the figured out that rugby tackling someone was the best way to fight, if that were actually true? most of the time diving in for a take down outside the rules of an mma cage will get your face caved in with a knee by anyone with more than basic training experience

Like i said , take a walk into your local council estate and try and clintch and judo throw or Wrestle and lie on top of your average knife carrying pikey, see how long it takes you to end up in a trauma unit on dialysis with a punctured kidney - those tend to be the dimwit kids who think they are indestructable having grown up watching wellpaid tv sportsmen do it in the protected environment of the ufc.

[Dr. Bassman]

Real attackers with knives don't attack like the people in made-up scenarios in TMAs do. There was a perfect video demonstrating all this but I haven't seen it for a while now. It basically shows how if you try to do anything except GTFO you will get your nuts stabbed in.

[Indo-Chinese Food]

(Original post by Dr. Bassman)
Real attackers with knives don't attack like the people in made-up scenarios in TMAs do. There was a perfect video demonstrating all this but I haven't seen it for a while now. It basically shows how if you try to do anything except GTFO you will get your nuts stabbed in.

techniques for defending a knife attack are very specific - they involve differnt stance, posture and hand positions than taken in normal fight position, they are ceratinly way beyond the basic grappling judo and wrestlers get taught. It isnt easy and your best defence is not to get into an argument with someone with a knife. You dont learn effective knife defence using youtube as your reference point.
fillipino styles such as baraw sugbo teach almost 80% unarmed vs knife fighter and learn defnese from evry angle you could think of - you wouldnt be able to land any finishing strike against a sound eskrima fighter

[Dr. Bassman]

(Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
techniques for defending a knife attack are very specific - they involve differnt stance, posture and hand positions than taken in normal fight position, they are ceratinly way beyond the basic grappling judo and wrestlers get taught. It isnt easy and your best defence is not to get into an argument with someone with a knife. You dont learn effective knife defence using youtube as your reference point.
fillipino styles such as baraw sugbo teach almost 80% unarmed vs knife fighter and learn defnese from evry angle you could think of - you wouldnt be able to land any finishing strike against a sound eskrima fighter

The problem is that these TMAs don't teach using realistic attacks. Someone with a knife doesn't lunge at you from varying angles, he/she will just go ballistic with a small weapon, attacking at a frantic rate. I don't think any martial art is good enough against an attacker with a knife. Until I see PROOF of these TMAs working against knife attackers there's no reason to think that they work. You're just telling us, not proving anything. You still don't understand this... it's kind of funny seeing you get so confused over why you actually have to have evidence behind what you say. You think your word is good enough.

[Indo-Chinese Food]

(Original post by Dr. Bassman)
The problem is that these TMAs don't teach using realistic attacks. Someone with a knife doesn't lunge at you from varying angles, he/she will just go ballistic with a small weapon, attacking at a frantic rate. I don't think any martial art is good enough against an attacker with a knife. Until I see PROOF of these TMAs working against knife attackers there's no reason to think that they work. You're just telling us, not proving anything. You still don't understand this... it's kind of funny seeing you get so confused over why you actually have to have evidence behind what you say. You think your word is good enough.

I think that becuase it is fact, if you have never trained in weapon defense you would have little concept of what i tried to explain anyway, which is a repeated problem on TSR. the principle is to avoid attack and trap the weapon carrying wrist as quickly as possble, if your attacker goes ballistic at a distance, its not a problem, if he closes distance you meet the attack early and disable. It isnt something you can learn to perfection when you are 14 like in judo, it takes years of practice to get reaction time down as little as possible, which is why i said arguing with someone with a knife is daft. personally i would even bother letting the guy get clos to me, id smash his calves/knees a few times with kicks till he thought better of trying to get close, none of those options exist in judo. But if you go train in manila, as i have , where pretty much every man and his dog carries a blade or machete as a matter of course, you would also learn cq hand to hand defence from being stabbed, and they are adept at it - like i said, id give you a blade and challenge you stick a high level Baraw guy, you wouldnt get close, probably crawl off with a broken wrist and arm and maybe a few teeth missing.

[Dr. Bassman]

(Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
I think that becuase it is fact, if you have never trained in weapon defense you would have little concept of what i tried to explain anyway, which is a repeated problem on TSR. the principle is to avoid attack and trap the weapon carrying wrist as quickly as possble, if your attacker goes ballistic at a distance, its not a problem, if he closes distance you meet the attack early and disable. It isnt something you can learn to perfection when you are 14 like in judo, it takes years of practice to get reaction time down as little as possible, which is why i said arguing with someone with a knife is daft. personally i would even bother letting the guy get clos to me, id smash his calves/knees a few times with kicks till he thought better of trying to get close, none of those options exist in judo. But if you go train in manila, as i have , where pretty much every man and his dog carries a blade or machete as a matter of course, you would also learn cq hand to hand defence from being stabbed, and they are adept at it - like i said, id give you a blade and challenge you stick a high level Baraw guy, you wouldnt get close, probably crawl off with a broken wrist and arm and maybe a few teeth missing.

Again, you're just saying things. You're the one who has to provide evidence for it working, not us. It's still funny how you don't understand this, you do realise that your word means absolutely nothing right?

[Indo-Chinese Food]

(Original post by Dr. Bassman)
Again, you're just saying things. You're the one who has to provide evidence for it working, not us. It's still funny how you don't understand this, you do realise that your word means absolutely nothing right?

The proof as has already been stated, is that martial arts are used in practice accross the globe for unarmed weapon defense, whereas judo/ wrestling is used for sports entertainment. there is nothing more conclusive than than. its not really my problem if you have no understanding of what im talking about it given your miniscule exeperience. Which is why someone that has never trained martial arts , such as yourself has the most worthless opinion, certainly on this thread.

[Dr. Bassman]

(Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
The proof as has already been stated, is that martial arts are used in practice accross the globe for unarmed weapon defense, whereas judo/ wrestling is used for sports entertainment. there is nothing more conclusive than than. its not really my problem if you have no understanding of what im talking about it given your miniscule exeperience. Which is why someone that has never trained martial arts , such as yourself has the most worthless opinion, certainly on this thread.

No no, you don't get it. You're just saying things. Just because something is practised throughout the world doesn't mean it's correct (*cough*religion *cough*). You have no evidence, all you're saying is 'LISTEN TO ME, I'M RIGHT YOU'RE WRONG' with a bunch of ad hominem to hide the fact that you don't actually have anything of substance to add, ever.

[Indo-Chinese Food]

(Original post by Dr. Bassman)
No no, you don't get it. You're just saying things. Just because something is practised throughout the world doesn't mean it's correct (*cough*religion *cough*). You have no evidence, all you're saying is 'LISTEN TO ME, I'M RIGHT YOU'RE WRONG' with a bunch of ad hominem to hide the fact that you don't actually have anything of substance to add, ever.

It doesnt bother me if you dont want to accept what i am telling you or not, ive told you before it isnt my job to educate ignorant kiddies/wannabies on the internet - clearly in the mind of the judo/mma kiddies, throwing a tantrum disproves everthing else, this your attempt at reasoning lol?
Yes, Something practiced around the world by professional organisations where unarmed combat is a life or death matter, ie military, policing bodies, special forces etc-if weapon defence doesnt work, why do they spend years training it? But of course a tantrum-throwing adolescent whoose only experience of martial arts is tv combat sports and youtube superceeds all this - Dear oh dear, to what extent do you want to humilate yourself in this thread

[Dr. Bassman]

(Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
It doesnt bother me if you dont want to accept what i am telling you or not, ive told you before it isnt my job to educate ignorant kiddies/wannabies on the internet - clearly in the mind of the judo/mma kiddies, throwing a tantrum disproves everthing else, this your attempt at reasoning lol?
Yes, Something practiced around the world by professional organisations where unarmed combat is a life or death matter, ie military, policing bodies, special forces etc-if weapon defence doesnt work, why do they spend years training it? But of course a tantrum-throwing adolescent whoose only experience of martial arts is tv combat sports and youtube superceeds all this - Dear oh dear, to what extent do you want to humilate yourself in this thread

No need to get aggressive, all I'm asking is for some proof of it working in real life. That shouldn't be so hard because, as you said, it's practised all around the world by various professional organisations. Looking forward to seeing your evidence!

[Indo-Chinese Food]

(Original post by Dr. Bassman)
No need to get aggressive, all I'm asking is for some proof of it working in real life. That shouldn't be so hard because, as you said, it's practised all around the world by various professional organisations. Looking forward to seeing your evidence!

lol i wasnt the one spitting the dummy and yelling in capitals, you claimed martial arts are ineffective defense against knives, did you offer proof? What proof exaclty is accpetable to prove the the opposite is actually true - apart form the fact that professional organistaions train such defense. just beucase you have no clue about the real world - does this mean nothing you have experince of actually exists?
is this same dimwits logic about "duuh wingchun is useless against da mma" - when you were offerred to make that statement reality by proving it at a specific wing tsun school and turned it down?
So not really sure what proof it is you think is required, depsite your lack of the same - like what, a news story of a martial artist taking down an armed attacker? well there are loads of those im sure you could google. Then like all your other points, your argument falls flat on its face.

[Dr. Bassman]

(Original post by Indo-Chinese Food)
lol i wasnt the one spitting the dummy and yelling in capitals, you claimed martial arts are ineffective defense against knives, did you offer proof? What proof exaclty is accpetable to prove the the opposite is actually true - apart form the fact that professional organistaions train such defense. just beucase you have no clue about the real world - does this mean nothing you have experince of actually exists?
is this same dimwits logic about "duuh wingchun is useless against da mma" - when you were offerred to make that statement reality by proving it at a specific wing tsun school and turned it down?
So not really sure what proof it is you think is required, depsite your lack of the same - like what, a news story of a martial artist taking down an armed attacker? well there are loads of those im sure you could google. Then like all your other points, your argument falls flat on its face.

I don't think any martial art is particularly effective against armed attackers. I'd just like some real, conclusive proof of it working. You don't need to keep writing big paragraphs, just a few good sources and links etc.

Burden of proof is on you

[Adam_x]

Hey guys
Can skinny people do martial arts?I mean,being skinny is the most reason for my lack of confidence to take part in some sports.
If not,what kind of 'fighting' sports do you recommend for skinny guys?(except Tae Kwon Do)
Thank you.

[Indo-Chinese Food]

(Original post by Dr. Bassman)
I don't think any martial art is particularly effective against armed attackers. I'd just like some real, conclusive proof of it working. You don't need to keep writing big paragraphs, just a few good sources and links etc.

Burden of proof is on you

http://goldsea.com/Text/index.php?id=13313 from a cursory online search - khmer boxer and hapkido black belt dis-armed an armed robber in the usa.

funny you want links to believe what has been explained to you and yet provide none to back up your clueless asertions. Like i said if you had spent time training martial arts instead of watching video clips, you may have picked up some actual worthwhile experince of subjects you try and get involved with here. There is no 'burden of proof', just burden on you to gain some credibility on subjects you clearly have no knowledge about.