Results are out! Find what you need...fast. Get quick advice or join the chat
Hey there! Sign in to have your say on this topicNew here? Join for free to post

Are all countries made up of immigrants or is this trait unique to Britain?

Announcements Posted on
    • 8 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by chefdave)
    Perhaps you should look up the term strawman. Because I havn't encapsulated the views of all leftists in a single statement you somehow believe that my initial argument is irrelevent, if that was true no political discourse would ever be able to take place!

    The fact remains that most lefties support immigration and multiculturalism and some of them attempt to justify their beliefs by highlighting the supposed immigrant status of indiginous Brits, what I would like to know is whether we could turn this argument on it's head and use it to flood third world nations with British led immigration.
    Who? Where? Most lefties? Half the working class are left wing in your definition of these things as Labour voters... they haven't been talking that much about the supposed immigrant status of indiginous Brits? Who do you mean by this lefties thing? You don't know do you? Its going to come down to some post someone made once about the subject isn't it? Or maybe a comment in a thread on the Guardian? Are you sure you're not just conflating different issues such as the arguments used against eugenics which is often based on using data about the mixed genes in the British population to point out that there really isn't an easily defined indiginous Brit for eugenics purposes. Seems to me you might be. This kind of data has never been used for the purpose of putting forward the ideas you attribute to these mythological 'lefties'.

    What odd paranoid world do you live in?
    • Thread Starter
    • 36 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by catoswyn)
    erm you mentioned the suppression of right wing thought... not me. I was replying to your point. Your memory is abysmal. You just told the man above that you hadn't been discussing immigrant crime with him earlier... you brought up the point with him back then. Are you well? Take a break?

    There is no ball to play mate. You're running around by yourself on the pitch. You haven't made a decent point to argue with since the start of the thread. Just constant references to things you've made up and cosntant bleating about Left, wings, right, labour, marxistic ideologies... waiting for the liberal left to show up, blah blah Yawn. What can anyone say to that stuff?

    I repeat nothing to do with your actual views... though I don't happen to share them... in fact I'm struggling to work out what on earth they might actually be as you keep denying you ever introduced or said half the stuff you did. Another technique you use. Or maybe you just don't remember. Possible, I suppose.
    So you don't know what my views are but you disagree with them anyway? And actually it was you that introduced the idea of suppressing right-wing thought only a couple of posts back.

    I don't think it's me who's coming over as confused and absent minded, you genuinely have no idea what you're going on about. Please cease with the moral crusade against all the eeeeeeeeevil right wingers, I'm sure all the young vulnerable students are entirely capable of operating without being nannied by the likes of you. A tad patronising, don't you think?
    • 8 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Carecup)
    But if you left or liberal you're clearly a white hating apologist.

    Oh and one thing that really starting to annoy me here

    Stop grouping the left and liberals. They are very much opposed ideologies and is roughly the same as grouping communism and fascism
    Though to be honest I did describe myself earlier as being liberal and left wing so I might be to blame for that.. I meant I suppose nothing to do with party politics as they stand obviously. More that I value liberalism, individualism and so forth but also believe in some things that are traditionally seen as belonging to the left. All very limiting terms I know but I had to start somewhere!

    • 1 follower
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Bill_Gates)
    globalisation has no boundaries. a nation can be determined unsafe with an indigenous population.

    Please go visit a library.
    I presume that is why Asian "tiger economies" are doing so awful? Japan, Taiwan and South Korea are really struggling to keep up with this globalisation thing not like I am writing this on a Taiwanese laptop...
    • 8 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by chefdave)
    So you don't know what my views are but you disagree with them anyway? And actually it was you that introduced the idea of suppressing right-wing thought only a couple of posts back.

    I don't think it's me who's coming over as confused and absent minded, you genuinely have no idea what you're going on about. Please cease with the moral crusade against all the eeeeeeeeevil right wingers, I'm sure all the young vulnerable students are entirely capable of operating without being nannied by the likes of you. A tad patronising, don't you think?
    I've explained I'm not on a crusade against evil right wingers. It is specifically you I was talking to and about. Not attempting to Nanny anyone either. Just noticed that some of the people you insult are very courteous and have lovely manners and are much less likely to reply to you in kind than you deserve. What is 'the likes of me' by the way?

    Anyway, I'm out of time again. I can't say its been a pleasure to be honest but it was quite funny to see how you reacted when treated in the same way you treat others.
    • Thread Starter
    • 36 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by catoswyn)
    I've explained I'm not on a crusade against evil right wingers. It is specifically you I was talking to and about. Not attempting to Nanny anyone either. Just noticed that some of the people you insult are very courteous and have lovely manners and are much less likely to reply to you in kind than you deserve. What is 'the likes of me' by the way?

    Anyway, I'm out of time again. I can't say its been a pleasure to be honest but it was quite funny to see how you reacted when treated in the same way you treat others.
    Uh oh, you've return to the inner sanctum of catoswyn-world where all are innocent expect those she disagrees with. If people have insulted me I've insulted them back and where they've been reasonable I too have tackled the issues rather than making personal remarks, that's fair. If you scroll back through the thread with objective eyes you might see what I'm talking about.
    • 0 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by chefdave)
    Yes I would agree, that seems reasonable.

    But the difference is I wouldn't use this *possible* fact as a reason to flood Kenya and Tanzania with waves of British "expatriates", many liberals however are willing to use a selective version of history to justify multiculturalism but only within white European nations, Africa and Asia et al are seen as sacrosanct so they mustn't be tainted with the damaging hand of the white man. Unless we're dishing out aid of course.
    Surely British expats can flood into Kenya/Tanzania if they wish? As far as I'm aware it's pretty easy to gain entry into those countries? Would you want a lax immigration system as exists in those countries? We should remember that border control is a left wing ideology.
    • 1 follower
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    Nearly every European country is full of immigrants. If they don't like it, well, should have thought about that before childishly jostling for power and influence in the world, "my empire's bigger than your empire!"

    Also, the British working class are extremely lazy. Maybe if they were willing to do their namesake (i.e. work), immigration would not be so much of a 'problem'.

    Perhaps we should be more selective in immigration, but not on the EU's terms on our own. We should try to opt out of the no-questions-asked free movement of Europeans into the UK, the vast majority of whom cannot or will not speak English, and encourage professionals from former colonies, who have spend their whole lives studying in English. Then, without poor Poles and the like flooding in, our so-called 'working class' will actually do what they are supposed to.

    Working class is merely a p.c. euphemism for lower class.
    • 9 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by chefdave)
    Well you say that but I don't really believe you to be honest. Lets test you're assertion shall we? Let me know when if any these statements send you into a cold sweat:

    a) The Tibetans have the right to expel all the Chinese and claim the territory of Tibet for their own.
    Honestly not that bothered about Tibet. They should have independence if they want it but I would be against the expulsion of Chinese people who live there.

    b) The Saudi Arabians have the right to close down all churches and declare Saudi Arabia a solely Islamic state
    Nope. I believe in religious freedom.

    c) The Indians were perfectly within their rights to fight against the British and demand their independence
    Yup. But this is not comparable. The British occupied India, took over it at gunpoint, installed an imperial government, subjugated the native population and set up concentration camps. Let me know when any of this happens over here and I would be against that, too.
    d) The Spanish are perfectly entitled to repatriate British settlers who have colonised parts of Spain and insensitively created mini Englands
    Again, I do not support forced repatriation. People should be able to live where they please.


    While I suspect you may have no problem with statements a to d my spidey sense tell me that you'll use all manner of excuses to prevent indiginous Brits from claiming Britain for their own and enacting as a matter of policy statement e, and if this is true you support a compromised version of indiginous rights, one that you'd reject for other nations.
    Oh what's that? You were wrong? I'm going to go ahead and assume you're going to ignore this post, just like all the other posts in this thread expressing views that challenge your assumptions about 'the left' and don't match up to this caricaturistic 'left liberal' bogeyman you've invented in your head.
    • Thread Starter
    • 36 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Captain Haddock)
    Honestly not that bothered about Tibet. They should have independence if they want it but I would be against the expulsion of Chinese people who live there.


    Nope. I believe in religious freedom.


    Yup. But this is not comparable. The British occupied India, took over it at gunpoint, installed an imperial government, subjugated the native population and set up concentration camps. Let me know when any of this happens over here and I would be against that, too.

    Again, I do not support forced repatriation. People should be able to live where they please.




    Oh what's that? You were wrong? I'm going to go ahead and assume you're going to ignore this post, just like all the other posts in this thread expressing views that challenge your assumptions about 'the left' and don't match up to this caricaturistic 'left liberal' bogeyman you've invented in your head.

    I realise it's a side issue but I believe your wrong about the British setting up concentration camps in India. Do you have any prove that suggests otherwise?
    • 9 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by chefdave)
    I realise it's a side issue but I believe your wrong about the British setting up concentration camps in India. Do you have any prove that suggests otherwise?
    Ok so apparently I was thinking about the British in South Africa, where we practically invented the damn things, and yes, used them on civilians. But the point is wherever our Empire spread to we treated indigenous populations like ****. Massacres, concentration camps, famines.. To compare a few years of liberalised immigration policy to what we did around the world is just insulting. Get some ****ing perspective.
    • 1 follower
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Historophilia)
    Pretty much yes.

    There has been far greater movement and changes of population than many other countries.

    I haven't studied this in depth but I would hazard a guess and say that this in part due to our geographical location, an island that is very close to other countries on the continent (France, the Netherlands, Scandinavia) and our long maritime history and habit of looking outwards at the world.
    Study it in depth then because you have little idea about what your talking about.
    • 0 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by chefdave)
    It was the local tyrants such as Mugabe that made a mess of things, many former British territories such as Australia and Hong Kong are positively thriving precisely because they adopted British laws and customs.

    I find it really weird that all these immigrants hate what the Empire did to their respective homelands and detest British values yet still demand the right to get onto the first plane over here. If British rule is that bad why on earth would they want to come and live in the hub? It makes no sense. Please explain yourself.
    because britain is economically and politically in a better position than their own countries, they can have a better life in britain than in their own countries. is it that hard to understand?
    • 0 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    People will always immigrate to wealthier countries that afford better prospects. Its that simple. No one will want to leave the UK, to go and live in Africa (unless they have found a seriously good job there or are a missionary). This is not because we care about African people and their right to preserve their culture. If the rivers of Africa suddenly started flowing with gold, we would be there in a heartbeat, shoving "the natives" out of the way to get a piece of the fortune. Don't delude yourself into thinking that we are "nicer" or "softer" than people in other countries.
    • 0 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    To be honest, even to I wasn't born in UK and I'm leaving there now, my main fear about immigration is over population which can lead to more competition for opportunities, so I think rather than stopping it we should just limit it and make it harder for people to come to the country to keep the population balanced every year.
    • 12 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by The Socktor)
    I've got to go to bed soon so this wont be as long as I would intend, but well:

    Yes, except maybe Kenya, where Homo Sapiens are believed to have first appeared, if an immigrant is defined simply as somebody who goes from one country to another (well, in the case for most of them, from what would later become one country to what would later become another since the concept of countries didn't exist in their time), then all countries are made up of immigrants.

    As for the bit about a lot of countries around the world not being as lenient about immigration than we are, well, there are lots of things other countries aren't doing right now but we still do them; democracy, human rights, eating cheddar cheese to name but three. Essentially, don't you think us embracing the freedom of people to move wherever they like is itself something to be proud of?

    Anyway, ideally yes, I would like to see global open borders. However, I can't see that happening until the inevitable New World Order.
    Am I going to be replied to or ignored?
    • 0 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by yothi5)
    Britain's colonial past has created immigration.

    Countries like NZ, AUS or USA are composed of immigrants from Europe who were seeking a better life.

    Countries in Asia, Africa and S.America aren't very popular destinations for immigrants.
    Lolz, the vast majority of international migration occurs within the global South.
    • 0 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    a terrible thread
    • 1 follower
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    lack of common sense?? :facepalm:

Reply

Submit reply

Register

Thanks for posting! You just need to create an account in order to submit the post
  1. this can't be left blank
    that username has been taken, please choose another Forgotten your password?
  2. this can't be left blank
    this email is already registered. Forgotten your password?
  3. this can't be left blank

    6 characters or longer with both numbers and letters is safer

  4. this can't be left empty
    your full birthday is required
  1. By joining you agree to our Ts and Cs, privacy policy and site rules

  2. Slide to join now Processing…

Updated: April 2, 2012
New on TSR

The future of apprenticeships

Join the discussion in the apprenticeships hub!

Article updates
Useful resources
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.