China Triumph and Turmoil? **** off

But Niall Ferguson' has given credit where its due, he mentions about 3 times how 'unprecedented' China's rise is in little more than 60 years or so. What more do you want? Honestly, I'm starting to think that you're just clutching at straws here, this documentary really isn't as bad as you make it out to be, in all our discussion, you've provided just one example of Ferguson's apparent disrespectful behavior and even that wasn't that anywhere near to being insulting/offensive.

Have you ever thought that the reason why China's picture is negative in the west (as you see it), is not because of bias against China, but simply because we in the west cannot comprehend how it can ever be justified to have a set of unelected people dictate what the rest of population does. I mean, don't you personally think that this is inherently unfair and that democracy, freedom of expression and free press is the way to go instead of the current system of China (which quite frankly is outdated)?

Personally I don't even think China is viewed that badly here in the west, honestly I just think its to do with different political systems, the lack of freedom in China just annoys people here a bit. Look at Japan, a non-western country, it gets viewed in more of less the same way here as other western countries.

oh and, you haven't answered my last question about whether you think those 1000s of people waking up at 5am just to see the flag being raised is creepy

I believe he has covered these issues before though. He does afterall own a company called Chimerica. The whole point of this show was to highlight how the Chinese propaganada machine works, and how despite outward appearances the Chinese single party system will never relinquish control in even the smallest of ways or be transparent in any way. I don't feel he passes negative judgement on this model though, in fact he seemed quite impressed to me.

Eight countries collectively invaded China ..... and it survived.

What would happen to Britain if the same happened?

A quote from "A Fish Called Wanda", If it hadn't been for the American's intervention, Britain would be speaking German!

Mao was ****e. I would assume Deng Xiaopeng wasn't mentioned as he pretty much made China the Superpower it is today, he wasn't was he?

Ferguson left his wife and kids and is a general a-hole.

Eight countries collectively invaded China ..... and it survived.

What would happen to Britain if the same happened?

A quote from "A Fish Called Wanda", If it hadn't been for the American's intervention, Britain would be speaking German!

First paragraph, fair enough.

Yes the Chinese by nature are hardworking, I actually wish I had a propper Chinese work ethic for revision! But China has a culture of inovation and science. The list of Chinese inventions goes on forever. A pretty big one actually is MATHS. Well the number 0 which opens up a whole new level of Maths apparently! Not forgetting the Arab development of it too.

And I do agree that China is decadent. They have a taste for some of the most tasteless western consumer products. In some ways they actually take it too far. And China doesn't try any justify anything, they don't need to. And we always must at least try to learn from history. Well I really hope China won't have to prove itself to anyone, and who is the other btw, Is it Britain? America? Israel???

0 and the modern numeric system, as well as fundamental mathematics was developed by Indians and Arabs, which is where Europeans got it from.

Eight countries collectively invaded China ..... and it survived.

What would happen to Britain if the same happened?

A quote from "A Fish Called Wanda", If it hadn't been for the American's intervention, Britain would be speaking German!

I believe he is more or less forced to say that as It's undeniable really. It pains him to do so though! I'd have to watch it again so see. Ok maybe I'm being slightly OTT but I was watching with my dad who was screaming at the telly lol.

The more educated people might have criticisms of the Chinese government but many others such as my college mates literally just say, "human rights", "communism", and don't back it up. Ferguson's account I honestly think won't make this any better. Perhaps the excessively large government needs a reform of structure but they'll work on it. The nationalisation of major industries is probably just to make sure they work well enough or somthing. And I don't think China needs western democracy, it's only a concept.

Ah but Japan still has US troops staioned there

And yea thats ****ed up

Actually an awful lot was done by Persians...for some reason Arabs take credit for this.

Maybe has he, maybe not.

Certainly China's problems have been brought to the surface on more than one occasion but there's no stopping yet another programme being made on the subject.

Does GCSE or A-Level history cover in depth the atrocities suffered by the Chinese at the hands of the British towards the end of the 19th Century?

Also, what excuse is there to use the C-word, in the first programme?

I think even Channel 4 should be partly held responsible for allowing it to air.

of course little one. keep going. Im sure everyone is amazed by your economic forecasting abilities too.

Sorry but that's one of my biggest annoyances.

In reality, Germany were unable to defeat our superior navy and thus supported the Blitz in an attempt at submissions. However, Hitler was very unwise with his micromanagement and in reality, the Nazi's were on the brink of total economic collapse unless they managed to continue their campaign of conquest. As such, this is where Hitler made his error, deciding to take on the USSR. This resulted in seventy five percent of Nazi casualties. Although America played a part, the main reason they can be considered successful is by stopping the USSR from expanding to France as they steamrolled over the Nazi's.

So know you know that if it wasn't for the USSR, we would all be speaking German. And knowing is half the battle.

you prove his point that chinese are arrogant

Actually what the West needs to learn is how to copy Chinese political efficiency in a democratic manner. China actually manages to get a lot done, compared to America, which seems to be in permanent political gridlock and to be quite honest, the American people often elect the most moronic idiots into power anyway. Liberal Democracy has it's failings, as does the Chinese system.

Let me get this straight, so you're saying that China is better off having a bunch of unelected officials who feel they have some sort of devine right to dictate what the rest of the population does, instead of 'western demoracy' in which power is given to the people and there is freedom of expression?

and why do you keep diverting away from the issue, what has japan and US troops got to do with this discussion. I think what you've said already has proven that you've let your own preconceived notions of Niall Ferguson and bias towards China get the better of your judgement on this documentary.

It's not my economic forecasting skills derpina, it's the forecasting skills of dozens of economists merged together by the economist in an issue a few months ago. By all means keep up with the illusory superiroirty, it is transparent to everyone watching that you are an over emotional tard who is no better than the muslims he tries to argue with on a daily basis.