China Triumph and Turmoil? **** off

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I haven't watched the programme and nor will I. There was a show on the BBC about a year ago which sounds like the exact opposite to this. It was all about, 'omg look how rich China is wow they're so clever meanwhile us westerners are useless idiots let's all bathe in self hate." It was pompus and unnecessarily stupid, even for a television programme.

So I decided never to watch any other similar programmes and thus when I saw the adverts for this I was tempted, but declined. Maybe OP, you should just do the same in future, rather than allow yourself to get worked up over crap that is designed and produced with the express intention of annoying people and thus getting them talking and more people watching.

For the record I don't see anything particularly special about the rise of China's economy. If European or American leaders could run their continent like a business and allow citizens to be paid poverty wages while artificially keeping the currency down then we could probably mass produce lots of cheap stuff too. All the more easily if we could just copy other people's manufacturing/engineering techniques. And much easier still if we could just copy other people's products entirely.

The Chinese haven't actually displayed any innovation at all. They have just taken a western economic model and applied it to a barely regulated market with a huge pool of inhumanely cheap labour. It's only a matter of time before they have to make a choice between actually caring for their people and allowing their wages to rise and thus damaging their exports considerably, or refusing to do so and instead following their well trodden path of treating their people like subhuman scum which will result in yet more violence and a return to the failed China we used to know.[/QUOTE]

Sorry, but that is BS.

Reply 121

34253

Original post by Yawn!

You were saying, poser?

Poser? lulwat? Cheers for basically admitting you were wrong all along with such a feeble retort :smile:

Any way i'm off guys. Find someone else to troll for the night.

Reply 122

Yawn!

Original post by Elipsis

That is correct... I studied India from independence to today. Above you can see 2 more articles which agree with me, and highlight problems India will face. Yes, more population generally means more GDP, but we have never seen how a country with that many citizens copes with such ridiculous burden. I didn't say India is going to stall any time really soon, I think it will stall in the next decade or two, when the population, the lack of/impossibility to create infrastructure, food shortages, disease, skills shortages, poor government policies which can't help but be over centralised and corrupt etc. etc. all catch up with it.

It's strange that you say you can quote like for like one that contradicts me, yet you haven't? Great work o wise one. Better go do some google searching LOL.

Erm.....so I guess you've been ignoring what China's been doing these last 30 years. :rolleyes:

How will there be an ''impossibility to build infrastructure''. Explanation please.

Food shortages? India already produces more food that needs, it's poor policies that prevent it from getting to the poor, but hey guess what, they're working on that right now. Oh and India has the largest amount of arable land in the world. Look it up, India isn't running out of fertile soil anytime soon.

Disease? They just eradicated polio? Next.

Skills shortages? India is training more scientists than any other nation. Governement policies (such as the Rural right to work scheme) are providing training and 100 days of employment to poor unemployed Indians. Again, look it up.

Poor government policies are pretty much the only thing you've got right, but guess what, India is a developing democracy, those problems will not be there forever, if you actually knew as much about India as you claim, you would know that over 100m protested against government policies last month. Poor government will not hinder India forever.

Basically all your comments seem typical of someone without an inndepth knowledge of the subject. It sounds to me like your full of it and can only come out with generalisations and BBC/The Economist articles. :rolleyes:

Reply 123

Yawn!

Original post by Elipsis

Poser? lulwat? Cheers for basically admitting you were wrong all along with such a feeble retort :smile:

Any way i'm off guys. Find someone else to troll for the night.

So basically you've been found out to be full of **** and now you're running away with your tail between your legs because I've pwned you.

Okay, bye bye. :smile:

(edited 12 years ago)

Reply 124

Indo-Chinese Food

Original post by Elipsis

It wasn't a threat, I said I wouldn't do it because you can't be trusted not to run to mods like a baby.

I am fully aware the growth rate has been falling, but you seem totally ignorant of the fact that that doesn't mean it has stopped growing. It is just growing less. There is still going to be around just under half a billion more of them by 2050... India's growth is also reliant on our growth, and the rest of the worlds growth for that matter. They make very little unique products themselves, instead just making themselves the dirty cheap factory of the world, which isn't going to lead to a perfect and even economic growth over the space of decades. No country has ever really down that before without the state pushing buttons like China and Russia. You really don't know what you're talking about, but you think you are brilliant. I guess this is what they call the Dunning Kruger Effect :rofl:

can you hear that ? that is the silent response to your self-amusing joke. You amuse me though, if there was ever a stark indication of the failings of the British educational system, it is that you are a university graduate. I wouldnt know where to begin correcting all the fallacies you have posted on this thread.
I would like to use you as a test subject one day. Its just as well you found an employer stupid enough to keep you in work :smile:

Reply 125

Yawn!

Original post by Indo-Chinese Food

Don't bother. He's a troll. He's just spewing out ignorance to stir people up. Everyone can see he's full of it.

This is supposed to be a thread about China and Niall Ferguson. Not India. Time to drop it.

Reply 126

grass mud horse

Lol, that was classic. Elipsis - I know you're still reading this - you just got owned.

Anyway, back to China, thought it might be interesting to point out that

a) Niall Ferguson has a history of saying ridiculous things in general, but especially about China. Remember Chimerica? Yeah, the US and China are such good friends, right?

b) For those demanding change in China, change is happening right now with the ousting of Bo Xilai. It looks like - although it is of course too early to tell - that the neo-Maoists are being quietly ushered off-stage. Who knows exactly the reasons behind this, but these are pretty significant developments nonetheless.

Reply 127

Indo-Chinese Food

Original post by Yawn!

Yeh, i know, hes now got pizza leaflets to deliver. I was wondering how long his lack of knowledge on china would get him flailing. Still you cant let trolls like that get away with posting rubbish online as well as through your letterbox

Reply 128

34253

Not one of the 3 have you have done the following:
-rebuked one of my arguments
-made one of your own arguments
-posted a source that validates anything you say

Yet you think you are right? LOOOOOOOOOOL. Trolllololololols.

Reply 129

34253

Original post by Indo-Chinese Food

Haha, says the poster called 'indo-chinese food. Given that 99.9% of leafleters are from your community, and your username, I think you might be involved in the takeaway industry :smile:

(edited 12 years ago)

Reply 130

dreadnaut

Judging by some parts of The Ascent of Money, knowing what the **** you are talking about is no longer a prerequisite for making a documentary

(edited 12 years ago)

Reply 131

User257034

Original post by grass mud horse

He is not being "ousted" at all.

Get your facts right.

Reply 132

grass mud horse

Original post by ras90

He is not being "ousted" at all.

Get your facts right.

No, sorry you're right he's in complete control of the situation :rolleyes:

Reply 133

User257034

Original post by grass mud horse

No, sorry you're right he's in complete control of the situation :rolleyes:

The maximum time he is aloud to hold the position is running out.

He is not being forced out like you suggested.

Reply 134

Casshern1456

Completely agree with you OP, I've been watching Niall Ferguson's 3 part documentary of China and like you I'm also a British-Chinese, some of the things he said in portraying China was disgusting, comparing Nazi and Hitler to the Chinese people if they were to go to war. First of all, China has never in modern history instigated war upon another nation only when they have to protect themselves. Ferguson is obviously biased and can't take the fact Western economies are doing so bad and all depend of China to rescue them with the 3 Trillion dollars they hold and own massive amounts of European and US debt.
I have just been watching his program and laughing, he says China are doing what the British colonialism done 200 years ago in Africa, India and many parts. Well, why shouldn't they, a basic fact in economics is every country pursues it's own interest, when the US rose to power in the last 60 years they pretty much done what they wanted in the World! same for the British 200 years ago.
You also need to think, Chinese people work hard and they pay "Chinese working hours" which means you have to work a lot harder to get the wage you want. They have gone to Africa and help built schools, hospitals, Football stadiums and expanded the workforce to create jobs, if you want my opinion China is pretty much in the "Triumph" stage in many economic, political, social and technological aspects. ACtually, the fact China has like it's own Silicon valley innovating more than the US is pretty impressive, don't forget IMF predicts China is going to take over from the US in total GDP growth by 2016.

(edited 12 years ago)

Reply 135

grass mud horse

Original post by ras90

The maximum time he is aloud to hold the position is running out.

He is not being forced out like you suggested.

If the CCP don't pay you to post comments here then you are missing a good money-making opportunity.

Reply 136

grass mud horse

Original post by Casshern1456

I too find the comparisons to Hitler and the Nazis to be completely ridiculous and a-historical. Unfortunately there's been a lot of this sort of thing here on this thread.

Reply 137

User257034

Original post by grass mud horse

If the CCP don't pay you to post comments here then you are missing a good money-making opportunity.

Haha, well... my ultimate goal is to work for them.

Reply 138

Txi

Mao is a tit .

The China gov is stupid for letting this Mao crap get out of hand.

It IS NOT even politically expedient, as many have said the current administration has its roots in the Deng era.

Hu JiTao was ardent follower of Deng and his family was harassed for it.

Mao's legacy is BS and should be ditched altogether for the true icons of modern China - Sun Yat Sen and Deng.

There would no stopping it = Mao faction is dead.

Plus Mao is one ugly mother

Haven't seen the series but OP must realise there's a whole campaign of subterfuge anti China campaign going on currently. They are scared.

Reply 139

internet tough guy

Original post by MrFlash1994

Of course they are allowed to be there but the US can easily persuade the politicians of these countries to act in their interests. The US influence is the politics surrounding that region is clear. Tensions would be reduced greatly If they weren't there. China, Japan, and South Korea I assume are on good terms. But I can't say the same for North Korea, but US flexing it's muscles doesn't help anything. In fact China's presense helps to balance the scales and keep things in order.

What, you mean propping up the regime in North Korea?

You don't seem to get what I'm saying, fact is Japan at present has a very lightweight military dating back from the end of ww2 - which I would say has been beneficial because its allowed them to focus public spending on the main economy. Anyway this is why they actually want the U.S to be there for protection. And China ain't all good, it has disputes of its own as well, notably with Taiwan which dates back to the communist-nationalist battles.