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If you are anti-Thatcher you are anti-Britain

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    (Original post by WharfedaleTiger)
    So basically its a group of ideas you don't agree with to which you've then affixed the term 'marxism' without any understanding of what Marxism is actually is? And you've then found some similarly high brow concepts (eg. The Enlightenment, liberty, reason) and decided that they most be against them for some abitary reason.

    Right. Now I understand.

    Its a conspiricy theory for idiots.
    Basically it seems to me the TSR righty brigade (chefdave, nicknick, and that guy with the green avatar) have created this political bogeyman in their heads who represents everything they don't like in British society, and they like to think that this bogeyman has been keeping them repressed, and that as white males living in 21st century Britain they are the single most oppressed group of people to have ever existed. As long as they have this enemy in their heads, they know what the causes of all this country's problems are. They can simply point their finger at this bogeyman that they created and say 'aha! See guys? It's totally real!'. It's a very convenient way of viewing the world as it saves them from actually thinking about things.
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    (Original post by Captain Haddock)
    Basically it seems to me the TSR righty brigade (chefdave, nicknick, and that guy with the green avatar) have created this political bogeyman in their heads who represents everything they don't like in British society, and they like to think that this bogeyman has been keeping them repressed, and that as white males living in 21st century Britain they are the single most oppressed group of people to have ever existed. As long as they have this enemy in their heads, they know what the causes of all this country's problems are. They can simply point their finger at this bogeyman that they created and say 'aha! See guys? It's totally real!'. It's a very convenient way of viewing the world as it saves them from actually thinking about things.
    In that case the Capitalists are the bogeymen (Marxism), the Men are the bogeymen (Feminism), the Marxists are the bogeymen (Fascism), the non-believers are the bogeymen (various religions). If we take the route that all ideology is false, Cultural Marxism is an attempt to deconstruct much of the ideology. It is not any worse than any of those other systems I have mentioned, except that it is new and not taught in universities yet. It was not invented by a group of people on TSR, the concept is already established (just Google the term to see how established it is). It does not point to a bogeyman as a bogeyman is fictional and it points to observable phenomenon. I grant you that like those other systems, it could just label people as "cultural Marxists". But that completely ties in with cultural Marxism; "To the liberal generalisations are only allowed if they confirm the liberal's world view e.g. the generalisation that people are equal"
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    (Original post by Captain Haddock)
    Basically it seems to me the TSR righty brigade (chefdave, nicknick, and that guy with the green avatar) have created this political bogeyman in their heads who represents everything they don't like in British society, and they like to think that this bogeyman has been keeping them repressed, and that as white males living in 21st century Britain they are the single most oppressed group of people to have ever existed. As long as they have this enemy in their heads, they know what the causes of all this country's problems are. They can simply point their finger at this bogeyman that they created and say 'aha! See guys? It's totally real!'. It's a very convenient way of viewing the world as it saves them from actually thinking about things.
    To some people my very existence is a symbol of imperialist oppression (white, male, British etc) so they've vested all their prejudices in me and created a bogeyman of their very own. It's the usual 'you deserve to punished for the actions of your ancestors' claptrap that we comes across all the time in the liberal press, and many people are quite willing to use to ficticious argument to justify all sorts of illiberal social engineering. It's farcial to suggest that certain groups are impervious to oppression because their forefathers ran an empire 100 years ago, or because they're "white males living in 21st century Britain". What planet are you living on?
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    (Original post by chefdave)
    To some people my very existence is a symbol of imperialist oppression (white, male, British etc) so they've vested all their prejudices in me and created a bogeyman of their very own. It's the usual 'you deserve to punished for the actions of your ancestors' claptrap that we comes across all the liberal press, and many people are quite willing to use to ficticious argument to justify all sorts of illiberal social engineering. It's farcial to suggest that certain groups are impervious to oppression because their forefathers ran an empire 100 years ago, or because they're "white males living in 21st century Britain". What planet are you living on?
    It's not about blaming you for what your ancestors did, it's about recognising the privilege you were born with because they did it.
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    (Original post by Captain Haddock)
    It's not about blaming you for what your ancestors did, it's about recognising the privilege you were born with because they did it.
    Ok, I'm privileged because I live in Britain rather than as a peasant in the Chinese countryside. So what?
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    Not liking a person means that you are against your country? What brilliant logic.
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    (Original post by chefdave)
    Ok, I'm privileged because I live in Britain rather than as a peasant in the Chinese countryside. So what?
    You are also more privileged than almost any minority in your own country simply by being white and male, and so who I guess you would call the 'cultural Marxists' enact policies to attempt to redress the balance. You might be against these measures. Whatever. In my opinion while they are somewhat ham-fisted and don't do much to address the root of the issue, it's better than nothing. But the problem comes when you try to deny this privilege and attempt to spin these policies so that it looks like you are the oppressed one. That's just a totally backwards way of looking at it.
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    (Original post by Captain Haddock)
    It's not about blaming you for what your ancestors did, it's about recognising the privilege you were born with because they did it.

    I see, so once chefdave were to hypothetically accept that he was over privilidged for being born a white person in a wealthy country and privilidged by his ancestors, what actions would therefore be necessary to offset this 'privilidge'? A 'rebalancing' of this privilidge perhaps by giving money to those who dont work (benefits culture), transfer of wealth to other countries (liberals not caring if the west self destructs with trade imbalances), encouragement of mass immigration and prejudice against chefdave ('positive discrimination'), perhaps a polical party criticising his race (New Labour).
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    (Original post by mevidek)
    Not liking a person means that you are against your country? What brilliant logic.
    People who display a '2 minutes hate' for someone whose aim was to fix the country, because it is not convenient for them personally are displaying selfishness and a lack of concern for the bigger pitcure of their country. Many people seem to display this selfishness from day to day and only seem to care about their country when its under attack.
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    (Original post by Captain Haddock)
    You are also more privileged than almost any minority in your own country simply by being white and male, and so who I guess you would call the 'cultural Marxists' enact policies to attempt to redress the balance. You might be against these measures. Whatever. In my opinion while they are somewhat ham-fisted and don't do much to address the root of the issue, it's better than nothing. But the problem comes when you try to deny this privilege and attempt to spin these policies so that it looks like you are the oppressed one. That's just a totally backwards way of looking at it.
    Policies that are designed to elevate and protect one ethnic/religious group at the expense of another are inherently racist and oppressive though, even if the policies in question were drafted with good intentions. They end up causing more problems than they solve. I see nothing wrong with the concept of universal human rights, whenever the state moves away from the model of treating people as equals they sow the seeds of disconent that eventually manifest themselves in groups such as the BNP and EDL. So you're right when you say leftist solutions are 'ham-fisted', and for that reason we need to get back to the drawing board and this time reject the Cultural Marxist dogma that is responsible inter-community tensions.
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    (Original post by nicknick1)
    Let's face it, no one ever stops talking about Mrs. Thatcher and the media never stops writing about her. Why? Because a lot of us want to go back to Thatcherism. What is stopping us? The Tory party had to “reform” to get elected in 2010. Why?
    That's not true at all.

    People talk about Thatcherism so much because it's dominated the political spectrum for the last 35 years.
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    (Original post by chefdave)
    Policies that are designed to elevate and protect one ethnic/religious group at the expense of another are inherently racist and oppressive though, even if the policies in question were drafted with good intentions. They end up causing more problems than they solve. I see nothing wrong with the concept of universal human rights, whenever the state moves away from the model of treating people as equals they sow the seeds of disconent that eventually manifest themselves in groups such as the BNP and EDL. So you're right when you say leftist solutions are 'ham-fisted', and for that reason we need to get back to the drawing board and this time reject the Cultural Marxist dogma that is responsible inter-community tensions.
    I wouldn't call them 'leftist' solutions. Social democratic maybe. A true leftist would criticise such policies for failing to bring about any true solutions by working within the capitalist framework to alleviate the problems caused by capitalism, but concede they are better than nothing. The problem I have with your line of reasoning is where you claim these policies are enacted at the 'expense' of anyone else. Yes there are people are being given a hand up, but I don't think anyone is actively being pushed down.
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    (Original post by nicknick1)
    I see, so once chefdave were to hypothetically accept that he was over privilidged for being born a white person in a wealthy country and privilidged by his ancestors, what actions would therefore be necessary to offset this 'privilidge'? A 'rebalancing' of this privilidge perhaps by giving money to those who dont work (benefits culture), transfer of wealth to other countries (liberals not caring if the west self destructs with trade imbalances), encouragement of mass immigration and prejudice against chefdave ('positive discrimination'), perhaps a polical party criticising his race (New Labour).
    Not now, nick. Grown ups are talking.
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    (Original post by nicknick1)
    People who display a '2 minutes hate' for someone whose aim was to fix the country, because it is not convenient for them personally are displaying selfishness and a lack of concern for the bigger pitcure of their country. Many people seem to display this selfishness from day to day and only seem to care about their country when its under attack.
    Nonsense.
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    (Original post by nicknick1)
    It is not any worse than any of those other systems I have mentioned, except that it is new and not taught in universities yet.
    It's not new, it dates from just after WW1, and parts of it have been taught in universities for at least a few decades.


    It was not invented by a group of people on TSR, the concept is already established (just Google the term to see how established it is).
    Yes, it is established. And has nothing to do with what you're talking about.
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    (Original post by nicknick1)
    someone whose aim was to fix the country
    Every leader's aim is to 'fix' the country they govern. That doesn't mean we should praise and respect every leader, does it?
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    (Original post by chefdave)
    To some people my very existence is a symbol of imperialist oppression (white, male, British etc) so they've vested all their prejudices in me and created a bogeyman of their very own. It's the usual 'you deserve to punished for the actions of your ancestors' claptrap that we comes across all the time in the liberal press, and many people are quite willing to use to ficticious argument to justify all sorts of illiberal social engineering. It's farcial to suggest that certain groups are impervious to oppression because their forefathers ran an empire 100 years ago, or because they're "white males living in 21st century Britain". What planet are you living on?
    Who? How does this manifest?
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    (Original post by Kibalchich)
    Who? How does this manifest?
    There are many people that resent Britain for her imperialist past, this is an uncontroverisal fact that doesn't require a list.
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    (Original post by chefdave)
    There are many people that resent Britain for her imperialist past, this is an uncontroverisal fact that doesn't require a list.
    I didn't think you'd be able to give an answer.
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    (Original post by Kibalchich)
    I didn't think you'd be able to give an answer.
    *Sigh*. Here you go then. I suspect it's from your favourite publication too so there's no chance of any bias Please don't ask me to start posting videos of extremists chanting that they'll "make the UK pay" etc, you can find them all on youtube if you have 5 minutes to spare.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/vide...ed-libya-video

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