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British entrepreneur Simon Dolan says, "Degrees are worthless"

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Many degrees aren't worthless because you need them to get into a profession. Without an accredited Psychology degree/conversion course, you cannot become a psychologist. Same goes for law degrees, Dentistry, Medicine etc.

Original post by laura130490

Depends on the degree and the area you are trying to get into. Medicine and law degrees for example, are obviously not worthless because you wouldn't be able to get into the professions without one.

Without being too pedantic, it is possible to enter law without a law degree (it's quite common). It's even possible without any degree (through the Legal Executive route). Though the general point stands.

Original post by oo00oo

Aye, around £100,000 more over a lifetime... which, if you're lucky enough to live to the age of 80 and start work aged, say, 22 after a 4 year degree, accumulates you around £1,700 more per year, or £32 a week.

Working lifetime. Few people are still working at 80...

Consider other benefis too including pensions (whatever they are...). Though you are correct that the increase in earnings isn't particularly significant for many (not all) humanities graduates.

Original post by Bill_Gates

someone with a GCSE education should not be able to speak on education policy. He had no choice but to be an entrepeneur or a shelf stacker.

I.e teaching jobs bring GREAT social benefits!

Whilst I don't deny that the man is probably largely ignorant of Higher Education, and is probably just trying to self-promote, it is possible to do far more than "just be a shelf stacker" with a GCSE education (see below).

Original post by fat_hobbit

Even for basic minimum wage jobs, you need a degree these days.
So, his POV is wrong.

So you can't become, say, an admin assisstant without a degree? Last time I checked only a GCSE education is required.

Airline pilot, Estate Agent, Journalist, Legal Executive, Retail manager and various roles in finance and accountancy, not to mention apprenticeships....these are just some careers which you can enter without a degree if you know where to look and how to get about it (admittedly with something like journalism your chances are often limited to competitive regional traineeships). A friend of my brother works as a technician servicing aircraft, a job he found immediately after finishing his GCSEs. After 10 years he's earning 50k, was earning 30k by his 20s, and owned his own house by 23. This is despite being passed over for promotion a number of times :p:

I'm not going to say degrees are worthless and don't provide wider possibilites But neither am I going to peddle accept the myth that one is doomed to a life of unemployment or minimum wage jobs without a degree. Many people who found employment after GCSEs or A-levels will be in a better position than a number of people who went to university, particularly humanities graduates.

Original post by Mbob

Leaving aside whether or not you actually earn this amount extra or not, if it is true then I'd say that's a pretty good deal.

Of course it's likely he's earning that amount. Engineers usually a starting salary of between 23 - 32k (depenidng on engineering speciality and location) with chartered status you can be looking at 50k within five years easily.

Reply 101

Bill_Gates

I agree i just made a generalisation. Just like he made a MAJOR generalisation about all degrees being worthless come on. Dont we need lawyers, doctors, economists, politicians etc

Reply 102

Sir Digby Chicken

Well that's conclusive then, I mean if simon dolan says it, then it must be true. I mean it's thee simon dolan.......................... :lolwut:

Reply 103

River85

Original post by Bill_Gates

I agree i just made a generalisation. Just like he made a MAJOR generalisation about all degrees being worthless come on. Dont we need lawyers, doctors, economists, politicians etc

Well, some would argue we don't need economists, and that politicians are best spending time in the "real world" and don't necessarily need a university education (as some of the best MP's don't) :p:

Reply 104

SpicyStrawberry

Original post by River85

Oh yes of course, there are alternative routes into Law but a law degree or conversion course after a degree in a different subject is a common way to achieve this :smile:

Reply 105

SnoochToTheBooch

well some are, some aren't. this isn't really news.

Reply 106

nmudz_009

Original post by py0alb

I think you might as well listen to the socioeconomic opinions of a lottery winner. For every Simon Dolan out there whose lucky investments happened to make him rich, there are 1,000 people -many of them far smarter, ballsier, hardworking - who did something similar and didn't happen to get lucky.

The stats don't lie. Average graduate salary is significantly higher than someone without a degree.

Hahahah well said

Reply 107

Bill_Gates

Original post by River85

Well, some would argue we don't need economists, and that politicians are best spending time in the "real world" and don't necessarily need a university education (as some of the best MP's don't) :p:

Economists are vital for a thriving economy. Politicians who have a good education can implement better policy & less likely to be corrupt.

Reply 108

py0alb

Original post by River85

Well, some would argue we don't need economists, and that politicians are best spending time in the "real world" and don't necessarily need a university education (as some of the best MP's don't) :p:

I think its somewhat ironic how people have disdain for various "soft" sciences like psychology and economics because their theories and models can't predict the behaviour of their fields as accurately as physicists and (to some extent) biologists. But surely that means the psychologists and economists are even more important? After all, an accurate understanding of human behaviour, structures and organisations will be crucial in developing the social institutes of tomorrow, and if the theories we currently have aren't even good enough to prevent massive crashes in the stock market, then lets pay lots of really, really smart people to figure out better ones.

Reply 109

Mbob

Original post by River85

What? I was replying to the general statistic of 100k more over a lifetime for all graduates - not specifically engineers.

Reply 110

zubz91

Original post by Tateco

Maths, Economics, Physics? Badly paid? Really?

I still reckon less paid than a good engineering degree

Reply 111

TurboCretin

Translation: "Look at me, I made money without a degree."

Meanwhile, he cannot produce a coherent sentence. One. Track. Mind.

Reply 112

Joinedup

Original post by Bill_Gates

Economists are vital for a thriving economy. Politicians who have a good education can implement better policy & less likely to be corrupt.

pin factories existed before adam smith decided they were a good way of making pins... I'd like to see some evidence of the incorruptability of educated politicians tbh. Elite unis seem to turn out grads with ethics that'd make an alley act hang it's head in shame.

Reply 113

Bill_Gates

Original post by Joinedup

I did say a thriving economy. There were pin factories, not very productive or good ones.

I will get the references on your desk by tommorow.

Reply 114

River85

Original post by py0alb

I largely agree. I was being a bit of a devil's advocate.

Original post by Bill_Gates

Economists are vital for a thriving economy. Politicians who have a good education can implement better policy & less likely to be corrupt.

Education isn't found in the halls of a university alone. Besides, Civil Servants largely develop policy (and for the civil service fast stream a degree, in almost all cases, is required, whereas there have been Prime Ministers with a basic O-level education.

Less likely to be corrupt, really? Have you any evdence that the better education a person is, the less likely they are corrupt? Especially when white collar crime is so common, and university educated MPs are frequently involved in scandals.

Original post by Mbob

What? I was replying to the general statistic of 100k more over a lifetime for all graduates - not specifically engineers.

Sorry, it wasn't clear by your post (particularly in my very tired state). I think you quoted an engineer and the use of "you actually earn this amount" (rather than graduates earn this extra amount) threw me.

Reply 115

username839699

A lot of what one learns in an undergraduate degree - this more directed towards those subjects where one has to do a lot of independent reading - can be learned with access to a good library and a group of knowledgeable people for one to bounce ideas off of/argue about the merits of xyz theory and what have you. This can be complemented by a good set of video lectures. [http://www.openculture.com/freeonlinecourses - for example]

Further, there are a number of graduate jobs - for instance, "business analyst" positions - that high school graduates with proper training could do. I am of the opinion that going to a vocational school and learning using a more "hands-on" approach would better serve the purposes of people interested in that kind of work. The way I see it, many degrees aren't worth the dime and they're a good way for universities to make money from.

That is not to say that I agree with Dolan. As mentioned above, a large number of jobs require degrees and I find that if students were taught a broader set of subjects and then be allowed to focus on a single area after a year or so, would be a good idea. I think that every educated person should have some knowledge of mathematics, history and geography, politics, literature and some economics and accounting. I'm a big fan of the American Liberal Arts Education model, obviously...

Reply 116

py0alb

The university system furnishes each generation of graduates with a diverse set of skills and information.
a) Does that set correlate well with the skills and information that the graduate job market actually demands?

b) Does it even matter if it doesn't?

c) What should we do about it then?

My suggestions for answers would be:
a) certain professions aside, not nearly as well as it should. I know too many people with generic arts degrees who are still working in bars and admin jobs 5 years after they graduated.
b) yes it does. university obviously has a bigger purpose than just getting you a good job, but we can't pretend that that isn't still a prime motivation.
c) a careful use of incentives by offering partially reduced fees for undersubscribed skills - with a focus on the kind of skilled technical workers that our economy is desperately short of.

Reply 117

Tateco

Original post by zubz91

I still reckon less paid than a good engineering degree

Just because you reckon it doesn't mean it's true, and you don't get paid depending on what degree you did, there are other factors.

Reply 118

mevidek

Original post by py0alb

This.

Reply 119

CherryCherryBoomBoom

Original post by Multitalented me

Well it is in my case lol. Currently doing an Economics degree that I hate, Yeah it has good career prospects but what's the point when it's just so tedious :sleep:

Can I ask, why is it you're studying your degree? Is the only sole reason to increase your career prospects?

I'm curious because I personally find education rather tedious myself, and I'd only really want to study for a degree if I was sure I really needed it for a good career. I don't really get the joy so many people get from doing endless coursework and essays and stressing one's brains out in the process.