[Miracle Day]

(Original post by F1 fanatic)
You appear to be under the illusion that the existence of the reputation feature is somehow down to the influence of the mods. From a moderation stand point it would be easier to get rid of the system given it causes so much aggravation between users, and on a personal level I don't really care whether it exists or not. The primary reason that the system remains is because, despite the moans, it's an enormously popular feature among users (particularly regular users) and there would be absolute uproar if we ever tried to get rid of it.

Throw a poll then?

[F1 fanatic]

(Original post by Miracle Day)
Throw a poll then?

We tend to use surveys rather than polls as you get a bigger and more representative sample. These have been run in the past, and doubtless will be run again in the future although I don't know exactly when. Certainly there was extensive consultation when we changed to the current system (October 2010ish?) and even that change to what most people now consider to be a better system created quite a lot of negativity and backlash initially. Our experience is that people are very very precious about their reputation, more so than almost all other features on the site.

[Miracle Day]

(Original post by F1 fanatic)
We tend to use surveys rather than polls as you get a bigger and more representative sample. These have been run in the past, and doubtless will be run again in the future although I don't know exactly when. Certainly there was extensive consultation when we changed to the current system (October 2010ish?) and even that change to what most people now consider to be a better system created quite a lot of negativity and backlash initially. Our experience is that people are very very precious about their reputation, more so than almost all other features on the site.

Which kind of juxtaposes with what the other moderator said "people don't care about rep"

[Ice Constricter]

Rep will never be abolished, it's what makes TSR what it is.

[F1 fanatic]

(Original post by Miracle Day)
Which kind of juxtaposes with what the other moderator said "people don't care about rep"

I take the view that anyone who chooses to express a view either way is not entirely ambivalent to it. On the one level it's something people aspire to and makes people feel accepted/popular/included in the community, but it's also something people feel they have 'earned' and therefore not something you can easily take away from them.

[rmhumphries]

(Original post by Miracle Day)
Which kind of juxtaposes with what the other moderator said "people don't care about rep"

Thats because each has their own opinion. The only people who talk on behalf of Acumen PI are the administrators, although mods, supermods and regular users can point out things that they have been told (such as subs generating less money than ads) and have their own opinion.


My two pennies:
- Remove the icons from posts. I don't feel it adds anything, and an extra screen not only prevents accidental repping/negging, but encourages a bit of thought.
- So, add a button to pos/neg someone (one button like before).
- When you go to the (new) page where you choose if you pos or neg someone, add an option to report them if they post breaks the rules. I know the report button exists, but this would help raise its profile.
- Add options to select a message to add. This can be the current message given, or "I agree/disagree with you, {well/badly} said", etc etc.
- Possibly add an option for subs to write their own message. If abused then would be removed permanently, sub or non-sub. Maybe make it so only 'established users' can use the feature.

[Converse Rocker]

(Original post by F1 fanatic)
You appear to be under the illusion that the existence of the reputation feature is somehow down to the influence of the mods. From a moderation stand point it would be easier to get rid of the system given it causes so much aggravation between users, and on a personal level I don't really care whether it exists or not. The primary reason that the system remains is because, despite the moans, it's an enormously popular feature among users (particularly regular users) and there would be absolute uproar if we ever tried to get rid of it.

Perhaps remove only the ability to neg rep? I think that's the main cause of annoyance round here, just an idea. Personally I don't really care if neg rep/all rep stays or goes.

[rmhumphries]

(Original post by Converse Rocker)
Perhaps remove only the ability to neg rep? I think that's the main cause of annoyance round here, just an idea. Personally I don't really care if neg rep/all rep stays or goes.

|
v

(Original post by S-man10)
Not sure if you are being serious here. I have been on this site longer and I have yet to come across such a post. Perhaps it happened in the old system but not on the current one.



you could still give comments using personal rep (only positive). tbf, the comment system was removed because it was being abused most of the time, I doubt it will be reinstated.



Pos/neg go together like ying and yang and not all offensive comments are removable. Suggesting to remove just negs is pretty moot.

[thunder_chunky]

(Original post by S-man10)
Here is a secret: most of the users who have high reps don't really care about it

This

(Original post by Miracle Day)
I doubt even if they did, that they'd admit to it.

I'll admit to it. I don't really care about the rep system in the sense that I don't worry about it to much whether I'm given neg or pos rep or giving it.
I'm against your idea and not because I have a slightly higher level of rep. I think it's still a useful way to show you agree or disagree with someone if you do so but don't feel like or don't want to actually post anything. I know you could say that sort of defeats the purpose of a forum but still, it has it's uses. The fact that the rep system is abused says more about the people than system itself.
Whilst I agree that some people might hold back for fear of being negged, I'm not sure I agree with getting rid of rep completely because of that.
Like I said, it's got it's uses.

With the old system you could neg once a day via a persons profile. Now whilst I don't want the return of being able to only rep/neg rep a person once a day, perhaps it could be best to take away the ability to neg a post, since one might say that is where a lot of the abuse happens. From what I can tell anyway.

[Miracle Day]

(Original post by thunder_chunky)
This



I'll admit to it. I don't really care about the rep system in the sense that I don't worry about it to much whether I'm given neg or pos rep or giving it.
I'm against your idea and not because I have a slightly higher level of rep. I think it's still a useful way to show you agree or disagree with someone if you do so but don't feel like or don't want to actually post anything. I know you could say that sort of defeats the purpose of a forum but still, it has it's uses. The fact that the rep system is abused says more about the people than system itself.
Whilst I agree that some people might hold back for fear of being negged, I'm not sure I agree with getting rid of rep completely because of that.
Like I said, it's got it's uses.

With the old system you could neg once a day via a persons profile. Now whilst I don't want the return of being able to only rep/neg rep a person once a day, perhaps it could be best to take away the ability to neg a post, since one might say that is where a lot of the abuse happens. From what I can tell anyway.

Why not just have a thumbs up/down system for each post?

[Nice Marmite]

(Original post by Miracle Day)
Why not just have a thumbs up/down system for each post?

That would devalue the system in users' eyes. The rep system is part of what makes TSR a community rather than an ephemeral image board style forum.

[Magnum Opus]

Whether you like it or not, the rep system is partly the thing that distinguishes TSR's Community from other communities on the web. It helps to distinguish the fact that TSR is a community based upon discussion, even when you have a thread where someone is asking for advice, you encounter users who like to have their opinions, and having the rep system adds another level to that discussion just as it might offline (in the sense that offline you disagree and agree with users, rep portrays that online). If you find you're receiving negative rep, then you might want to take a look at what it is you're posting. Some users will neg for the sake of it, because they simply don't care or don't like you, but in general it is pretty much consistent with how agreeable you are being in the tone and content of your posts, just as it would be down the pub.

In that sense you'll find the people who care are the ones who like attention.

[internet tough guy]

(Original post by Miracle Day)
I think this debate will mainly be approved by people with low reputation, and unsupported by those with high reputation.

So here's what I did. I posted as I would if I never had any reputation. I held back, I crafted my posts carefully to make sure nothing I wrote was 'neg material' and I'd always take the opportunity to post something funny for rep. I managed to get to 5 Rep bars before I thought I'd just go back to posting normally, and now I'm almost back to 3 rep bars.

People neg others simply because they don't agree with their post. The only circumstances I've seen on TSR where neg was properly given by my standards are the ones DYKWIA had received and poorly crafted, ignorant arguments. I accept people have different opinions, and if I put mine forward I'd rather someone respect my opinion instead of negg'ing it as I would them.

The system creates an entirely false atmosphere on this forum. People will hold back before posting, and obviously it works as I've proved. Yes you could argue "It's just pixel why do you care?" but subconciously people will want to get rep, and not want neg rep. People will wonder why they were negged, when nobody bothered even challenging them.

Months ago I heard mods were looking into it.. but how hard can it be to just sort it out or remove it?

Thats the exact purpose of the whole repping system - to encourage people to court the approval of others. Its a microcosm of what society in general is about, hence why no-one in their right mind will be totally honest to other strangers in real life. In fact, the complaint people often have about the internet is that due to the absence of such a framework where people can be rewarded or punished for their actions, its led to trolling/purposeful inflammatory comments - the opposite end of what you describe as the current situation of TSR.

So yeah, its difficult, I see where you're coming from. But at the end of the day, thats just human nature, society breeds conformity and TSR is merely a reflection of this reality.

[Chrosson]

(Original post by Miracle Day)
It's why I wouldn't value a mods opinion when it comes to TSR features.

But the scenario is slightly different. Jagex forums are for discussions about a specific product (Runescape) and moderator selections will have a significant factor of how much the user is in favour of said product (wouldn't want negative opinions moderating the official forums...).

By contrast, TSR is a general discussion site and, while I have no first hand knowledge, I would guess that moderator selection is more based on the ability of that user to moderate, rather than if they are in lockstep with Acumen. That said, opinions are likely to converge somewhat by the fact that they are actually using TSR a reasonable amount to have been chosen as a moderator.

Besides which, I've noticed mod disagreements with Acumen in the past...

(Original post by internet tough guy)
Thats the exact purpose of the whole repping system - to encourage people to court the approval of others. Its a microcosm of what society in general is about, hence why no-one in their right mind will be totally honest to other strangers in real life. In fact, the complaint people often have about the internet is that due to the absence of such a framework where people can be rewarded or punished for their actions, its led to trolling/purposeful inflammatory comments - the opposite end of what you describe as the current situation of TSR.

So yeah, its difficult, I see where you're coming from. But at the end of the day, thats just human nature, society breeds conformity and TSR is merely a reflection of this reality.

This is blindingly obvious and yet I've never thought of the rep system like this. My mind is blown.

[Lord Jon]

I doubt many people care about rep OP. Granted the odd laughable soul will but not all people.

(Original post by Bellissima)
TSR would lose money because loads of people become subs so they can check on who negged them then start getting pissy with them/neg them back... lame

LOL. Who the hell spends £2.99 a month just to see who gives them what are in effect "fictitious points" Rep doesn't do anything for you at the end of the day. I doubt it to be honest.

[Bellissima]

(Original post by Agent Smirnoff)
I doubt many people care about rep OP. Granted the odd laughable soul will but not all people.



LOL. Who the hell spends £2.99 a month just to see who gives them what are in effect "fictitious points" Rep doesn't do anything for you at the end of the day. I doubt it to be honest.

there are some who def do, these are the ones that either PM you or send you a wall message if you neg them

[SweetsAndSugar]

...and get rid of the rep-whoring one-liners?
Tbh I think TSR rep is just something people on here love to hate. It has its downsides but it is what makes TSR what it is.

[Agenda Suicide]

(Original post by Miracle Day)
I doubt even if they did, that they'd admit to it.

If you say what yo-u think sometiems you get lots of negs sometimes you get lots of pos reps.

Who cares?It's a few coloured in pixels.

[Chrosson]

(Original post by Agenda Suicide)
If you say what yo-u think sometiems you get lots of negs sometimes you get lots of pos reps.

Who cares?It's a few coloured in pixels.

Apparently you do?

Those that protest the loudest...something something something?

[thunder_chunky]

(Original post by Agent Smirnoff)
LOL. Who the hell spends £2.99 a month just to see who gives them what are in effect "fictitious points"

Who indeed