[Clare~Bear]

My grandad is ill with cancer (and even before he had it, he wasn't that healthy, plus he's 84). He was in hospital for a few weeks so let my mum/his daughter have his car (she was already on the insurance), so it keeps all its parts moving and what not, plus it meant my mum could take my nan shopping and to visit my grandad easier. He's out of hospital but wants his car back soon.

BUT, for a few years now, my mum hasn't thought that he should be driving. He's 84, his eye-sight is bad (and doesn't wear his glasses for driving!!!!), his reactions are slow and is booked to have two eye operations in the next few weeks! Plus he's now soo weak from the cancer that some days he can't even get out of bed! They have a carer come in twice in a week to give him a proper wash etc!

We think that if someone official like a doctor or optician said he shouldn't drive then he'd probably stop. BUT the last time he went to the opticians they said that if it gets any worse, he should stop. BUT now he's been and they've told him he needs his cataracts removing(so they've obviously got worse), but they didn't mention stopping driving, so he still wants his car back.

Mums mentioned it to him before, but not since he's been so bad. And if she does, HE WILLL just think that's it's so she can keep the car so will jsut get in a mood with her and demand it back even sooner. It would be useful to her (although she'd probably sell it for an automatic) as it means we can take nan out places easier and if dads using our car, we're not stranded at home. BUT we both honestly think that he's dangerous on the roads - he hasn't driven since he's been so ill so it'd probably be even worse now. And that he'd cause an accident, potentially killing others, or even himself or my nan!!!

What can we do? It's his car so knowing him (and we do) he'd go to the police saying it was theft, if we didn't give it back.

[Hopple]

Give him back the car but tell him he's dangerous so should sell it. Even if you're right, you've essentially capitalised on him having cancer to make your move, and that's just wrong.

If you're willing to steal his car (you're at teh very least contemplating it), then perhaps you'd be willing to sabotage his car so that he can't get it going off the driveway? He might blame your mum for knackering it with her driving, but better that then going to the cops saying she's a thief.

[there's too much love]

Personally I'd try contacting the DVLA or his GP, or both. You could try asking at your CAB about what to do.

Your mum's wants don't really come into it at the moment. Things being easier if she had the car are unrelated to any of these issues.

[Clare~Bear]

It's no use us telling him, he'll ignore us and then it might take him to seriously injure or kill someone before the police stop him!!!

But we're not, even before he had it, we think he was too ill. His eyes were bad, his reactions slow and his judgement isn't that great, but since his been ill he's got worse and the eye problem has nothing to do with the cancer, it just happens that thats also just cropped up.

Well technically it's not stealing if he already agreed to giving it to us . . .

Well we want whats best and safest for my nan and grandad . . . She doesn't particularly want the car anyway, she hates manuals, it just makes it easier for her to take nan shopping if the car is at ours cos then we don't have to faff around getting buses or a lift to nans before we can take her out in it.

[Hopple]

(Original post by Clare~Bear)

Well technically it's not stealing if he already agreed to giving it to us . . .

It's quite obvious that he only gave your mum his car on the assumption of getting it back when he got better - i.e. he lent it to her whilst he was in hospital.

[TheSownRose]

(Original post by Clare~Bear)
We think that if someone official like a doctor or optician said he shouldn't drive then he'd probably stop. BUT the last time he went to the opticians they said that if it gets any worse, he should stop. BUT now he's been and they've told him he needs his cataracts replacing(so they've obviously got worse), but they didn't mention stopping driving, so he still wants his car back.

Unfortunately, optometrists have no legal right to tell someone they can't drive, they can only advise someone to stop if their eyesight isn't up to the task. If the patient chooses to ignore that advice, that's their business.

That said, they also shouldn't be telling someone they need their cataracts replacing, for two reasons: 1, again, it's the patient's choice and 2, you don't replace cataracts, you remove the cataracts and usually put an artificial lens in.

[Clare~Bear]

(Original post by Hopple)
It's quite obvious that he only gave your mum his car on the assumption of getting it back when he got better - i.e. he lent it to her whilst he was in hospital.

He's not better, his cancer is getting worse, they only let him out because his jaundice got better . . . Most days he struggles to get in/out of bed and wash himself, they've got a carer in twice a week to wash him properly etc.

[littleone271]

I think it would be somewhat irresponsible to let him drive with the knowledge that your family have. He's 84 and he's coming to the end of his life. It's natural and understandable for him to want to keep his independance for as long as possible but you can't let him have that if it means putting him back on the road when he isn't fit to drive. It's just not safe for other drivers or pedestrians to have 84 yr olds with bad eyesight driving all over the place and not being able to move fast enough.

[yothi5]

What if he kills a small child or causes a traffic accident....?

[Hopple]

(Original post by Clare~Bear)
He's not better, his cancer is getting worse, they only let him out because his jaundice got better . . . Most days he struggles to get in/out of bed and wash himself, they've got a carer in twice a week to wash him properly etc.

He's better in that he's out of hospital, and clearly that's enough for him. He lent your mum his car, and now wants it back, that's all there is to it. If you want to stop him driving, then fine, go ahead and do that (you seem to have good reason to), but don't pretend he's allowed you to.

[Clare~Bear]

(Original post by TheSownRose)
Unfortunately, optometrists have no legal right to tell someone they can't drive, they can only advise someone to stop if their eyesight isn't up to the task. If the patient chooses to ignore that advice, that's their business.

That said, they also shouldn't be telling someone they need their cataracts replacing, for two reasons: 1, again, it's the patient's choice and 2, you don't replace cataracts, you remove the cataracts and usually put an artificial lens in.

ok but can't they say that in their opinion it's unadvisable to drive/ if they said something along those lines, he'd probably listen to them.


Oops, my mistake, the opticians said about it getting worse and stopping driving, it must have been some kind of eye doctor at the hospital (where they went today) that told him about the cataracts . . . I thought they were still called opticians even if they were at a hospital . . .

[Clare~Bear]

(Original post by Hopple)
He's better in that he's out of hospital, and clearly that's enough for him. He lent your mum his car, and now wants it back, that's all there is to it. If you want to stop him driving, then fine, go ahead and do that (you seem to have good reason to), but don't pretend he's allowed you to.

When he was in hospital, he was the only one in his bay that could get up out of bed to use the bathroom. GP keeps seeing him and says that he's getting worse. Like I said, he was only put in the hospital because he had jaundice, they then found he had cancer but obviously, there's nothing they can do, so discharged him when the jaundice went.

[1tartanarmy]

Clare stop making a mountain out a molehill.

1. If you keep his car its theft... even if he agreed to lend you it. If he wants it back then bloody give it back its HIS car.. Its not your responsibility to decide whether he or even another person is fit to drive. Thats others people jobs NOT yours.

2. Would you listen to the advice given on this forum? phone the DVLA will you.... clearly thats the people that decide who is fit to drive and who is not. Phone them omg its that simple... Why you wouldnt just do that using your own brain is beyond me =/

Seriously this question is so..... pointless and it feels like your actively trying to create an issue out of nothing. Phone the DVLA and see what they say. Do what they say. Then you have played your part. Also suggest to your grandad and express your concerns. After giving his car back.

[Architecture-er]

I thought old people had to take regular driving tests to prove that they could still drive?

Maybe you could ask the doctor if he could drive post-op, and when they say "no" then tell your grandad what the doctor said?

[Hopple]

(Original post by Clare~Bear)
When he was in hospital, he was the only one in his bay that could get up out of bed to use the bathroom. GP keeps seeing him and says that he's getting worse. Like I said, he was only put in the hospital because he had jaundice, they then found he had cancer but obviously, there's nothing they can do, so discharged him when the jaundice went.

I'm not arguing that he is getting better or not, what I'm saying is that your grandad let your mother use his car until he got out of hospital (so he feels he is 'better'), since obviously he couldn't use it (yes, you'll argue he still can't) and thought she might as well make use of it. What he definitely didn't do was decide that she could have it from now on no matter what - it was lent to her, it wasn't a gift.

[cl_steele]

its his car he can do what he wants with it.

[isitinyet?]

you're dressing it up as if it's for his own protection when it really sounds like you want his car to make things 'easier'. Dunno whether you worded it badly or you and your mother are heartless bastards capaitilizing on a family members illness. Hoefully it's the former, in which case you should inform him that it would be irresponsible of him to drive and threaten to report him if he doesn't listen. Sounds harsh but would you rather have your g'dad angry at your or potentially a crash which will physically harm him and others?

[TheSownRose]

(Original post by Clare~Bear)
ok but can't they say that in their opinion it's unadvisable to drive/ if they said something along those lines, he'd probably listen to them.


Oops, my mistake, the opticians said about it getting worse and stopping driving, it must have been some kind of eye doctor at the hospital (where they went today) that told him about the cataracts . . . I thought they were still called opticians even if they were at a hospital . . .

Yes, they can, but if his eyesight problems are related to the cataracts, it's entirely possible his score on the letter chart is coming up fine. The bigger impact comes from the reduction in contrast sensitivity, because rarely are things dark black on a white background. They can test that, but a lot don't bother for some reason.

Opticians are people who deal with glasses, optometrists are people who test eyes and sight, ophthalmologists are eye doctors. You can find any of them at a hospital.

[catoswyn]

(Original post by Clare~Bear)
ok but can't they say that in their opinion it's unadvisable to drive/ if they said something along those lines, he'd probably listen to them.


Oops, my mistake, the opticians said about it getting worse and stopping driving, it must have been some kind of eye doctor at the hospital (where they went today) that told him about the cataracts . . . I thought they were still called opticians even if they were at a hospital . . .

There are a few issues:

First lets deal with the idea that wanting to use the car is wrong. Of course it isn't. Its perfectly fine for your mom to feel that having the car is very important as she is using it to look after you grandmother. Its not like she's taken to rally driving in it! She is currrently supporting and helping your nan with shopping and taking her about in it. If your grandad isn't willing to let her use it for these purposes then he is being a little thoughtless. I would guess he is in denial about the extent of his illness and his age so thinks he will be doing the shopping etc with your nan.

The problem is that everyone else around him is aware that he is very ill and not really able to drive except for him. Your family must ask the GP for help to tell your grandad not to drive.

Hopefully if this happens he will then continue to let your mom use the car to help your nan.

In the meantime you are going to have to return the car. Try talking to him... not about his driving techniques/ability to drive but about how tiring it will be for him to have to deal with the shopping and everything and would he like your mom to continue with this and use the car to do so.

Good luck

[Clare~Bear]

(Original post by cl_steele)
its his car he can do what he wants with it.

Even kill someone because he's not fit enough to drive?

(Original post by isitinyet?)
you're dressing it up as if it's for his own protection when it really sounds like you want his car to make things 'easier'. Dunno whether you worded it badly or you and your mother are heartless bastards capaitilizing on a family members illness. Hoefully it's the former, in which case you should inform him that it would be irresponsible of him to drive and threaten to report him if he doesn't listen. Sounds harsh but would you rather have your g'dad angry at your or potentially a crash which will physically harm him and others?

Its not that much easier for mum as we already have a car, but it makes it easier for my mum to help them as their car has a bigger boot and is more economic so we can go shopping and get stuff for both families rather than just one at a time.

(Original post by TheSownRose)
Yes, they can, but if his eyesight problems are related to the cataracts, it's entirely possible his score on the letter chart is coming up fine. The bigger impact comes from the reduction in contrast sensitivity, because rarely are things dark black on a white background. They can test that, but a lot don't bother for some reason.

Opticians are people who deal with glasses, optometrists are people who test eyes and sight, ophthalmologists are eye doctors. You can find any of them at a hospital.

I know, but his cataracts might not be that bad, but if you add everything up together, it probably means he's unsafe to drive.

(Original post by catoswyn)
There are a few issues:

First lets deal with the idea that wanting to use the car is wrong. Of course it isn't. Its perfectly fine for your mom to feel that having the car is very important as she is using it to look after you grandmother. Its not like she's taken to rally driving in it! She is currrently supporting and helping your nan with shopping and taking her about in it. If your grandad isn't willing to let her use it for these purposes then he is being a little thoughtless. I would guess he is in denial about the extent of his illness and his age so thinks he will be doing the shopping etc with your nan.

The problem is that everyone else around him is aware that he is very ill and not really able to drive except for him. Your family must ask the GP for help to tell your grandad not to drive.

Hopefully if this happens he will then continue to let your mom use the car to help your nan.

In the meantime you are going to have to return the car. Try talking to him... not about his driving techniques/ability to drive but about how tiring it will be for him to have to deal with the shopping and everything and would he like your mom to continue with this and use the car to do so.

Good luck

Precisely, my mum isn't doing it for her own benefit, it's manual which she hates, plush the clutch is really stiff which doesn't help. It makes it easier for her to help my nan and grandad if she has the car. He probably is in denial, he's stubborn.

That's a good point, on a good day he might feel well enough to drive, but I don't know if he'd be able to walk around the shops, and nan can't push him in a wheelchair. And we can't just leave him in the car for nearly an hour on his own - what happens if he needs the toilet, he's got a weak bladder.