[Wilfred Little]

(Original post by Luxray)
You could have discussed why you may prefer X song compared to Y song on one of his albums. Or something funny you read about him etc. but nope [I haven't read the entire thread] you come across as someone who rather than talking about his music... you are here to prove other artists are better and basically being a bit of a snob which is obviously not what this thread is about.

I did discuss his music... Are you saying I, as a Kanye fan, am not allowed to disagree with anything in this thread if it's criticising Kanye

I've bought his CD's, which means I've supported him, which means I'm a fan and have just as much right to post here as you.

If you read my posts you will notice I've paid him many compliments in this thread, such as him being a good producer. If you're calling me a snob just for countering points you're coming across as very salty.

[rainbow_kisses]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQzJx...eature=related

[Luxray]

(Original post by Wilfred Little)
I did discuss his music... Are you saying I, as a Kanye fan, am not allowed to disagree with anything in this thread if it's criticising Kanye

I've bought his CD's, which means I've supported him, which means I'm a fan and have just as much right to post here as you.

If you read my posts you will notice I've paid him many compliments in this thread, such as him being a good producer. If you're calling me a snob just for countering points you're coming across as very salty.

its great that you are supporting him and have a right to post on this thread. But i dunno man, I'm not a massive hip hop artist fan so I can't comment on everything you have said but what you have said sounds like what music snobs say e.g.

Define most people? If you go on Amazon and click a Kanye album then look at "what other customers bought" you will see stuff like Rihanna, Lil Wayne, Eminem... do you mean those kind of people who listen to those artists? You won't get many Hip-Hop fans saying Kanye's albums are classics.

[Wilfred Little]

(Original post by Luxray)
its great that you are supporting him and have a right to post on this thread. But i dunno man, I'm not a massive hip hop artist fan so I can't comment on everything you have said but what you have said sounds like what music snobs say e.g.

The guy I was responding to specifically said "they are regarded as classics in Hip-Hop" because I said all his albums may be critically acclaimed in Pop, but not Hip-Hop, which was a response to this comment posted by the OP:

all of them are critically aclaimed. If it wasn't for him the likes of Drake, Nicki Minaj, Kid Cudi i.e non gangstar rappers wouldn't exist.

It was after this exchange of posts when I started mentioning Hip-Hop in more detail.

And does responding to the 2nd bit about non-gangster rappers, which is obviously not true make me a snob? There are other posters who disagreed with the OP. If you think I'm being snobby, I honestly apologise and won't post again in this thread.

[tooambitious]

loce kanye - subscribes

[Jordan_1]

Another video, I never even realised this song existed till a few weeks ago. Good song!

[TM94]

Got his lyrics in my sig

[flowermaster91]

OMG

[tu_es_jolie_x]

[Shabalala]

Kanye is lyrically very underated he can freestyle off the top



Skip to 3.44 for two good freestyle verse the first guys ****.

[munn]

(Original post by Wilfred Little)
The most damning argument against College Dropout is that nearly half of it is interludes. There are three or four very good tracks, very, very good tracks on College Dropout, but as a classic album? I don't think it cuts the mustard, 4 tracks on a 21 track CD? What The Infamous has over CD is that it is consistent all the way through, it does have 3 interludes but 13 solid, solid tracks, plus was crucial in bringing the spotlight back to New York after the G-Funk thing Dre did and the rise of Death Row. I see what you're saying with the Wu-Tang sound though, but the production styles are slightly different, RZA has that twisted, warped sound and The Infamous is more melodic.

Also I think me and you have different criteria for a classic album. There shouldn't be hundreds of classic Hip-Hop albums, I think people throw it around too easily. Nas is one of my favourite rappers but I would say he only has one classic album, his fanboys would say he has 3 or 4 though, 2Pac is also one of my favourites and he arguably only has one, if any at all (Me Against the World).



Me and Munn disagree but he's argued his point and we've agreed to disagree. Name-calling doesn't prove your point, you can't post a thread and make bold statements without backing them up and then be surprised when someone who disagrees calls you up on them.

The interludes are what turned me off of the album for a long time, because i'd prefer to stick an album on random or whatever and just listen to the songs and the skits simply wouldn't work.
Listen to the album from start to finish though and they help hold the album together, there's a point around School Spirit with 3 interludes in a 4 track spell which is kind of irritating (and to be honest the album could do without all 3), but apart from that it works really well, take Prince Paul's a Prince Among Thieves for example - 35 tracks, of which 18 are skits, 17 songs. But it works really well because it tells a story and whilst the songs are strong enough to hold up on their own, the 18 skits are what make it a classic album.
The interludes on College Dropout don't quite have the same effect, and whilst the first 3 (Intro, Graduation Day and I'll Fly Away) help set the tone for the album, the other 3 could easily be removed without negatively impacting the album. But 6 skits on a 21 track album still isn't overkill - Only Built 4 Cuban Linx has 18 tracks - 2 standalone skits and 16 songs, of which 4 have long opening intros (Can It All Be So Simple (Remix), Glaciers of Ice, Spot Rusherz and Wu-Gambinos), which is 6 skits on an 18 track album. Granted, the overall quality of the songs on OBFCL is higher than College Dropout, but there are less than 10 hip-hop albums which that can't be said about.

Yet despite that I'll have to disagree with your "only 4 good songs" on the album claim, as every song on it is enjoyable in my eyes, and whilst it's not an Illmatic or Liquid Swords album where 90% of the album could make it's way onto a "greatest hip-hop songs of all-time" list, there's probably only a few albums (those are the only two that come to mind for me), which are like that.

A classic album in my eyes is any album you can say every fan of that genre should own (or at the very least, listen to and make the decision yourself). College Dropout comes under that category. I'd agree that Nas only has one album that you can really say that about, yet I'd say Kanye has two (college dropout and my dark and twisted fantasy) but also I'd still say there aren't all that many albums that come into that category. Less than 50 definitely (probably much less, it's a ballpark figure). Is 50 too many? It works out as roughly 2 classic albums a year for the last 25 years. There probably isn't that many but it's not unreasonable in my eyes.
Out of sheer boredom I'm going to copy and paste my entire hip-hop album collection into this, then delete everything that isn't "classic" and see what's left.

From 353 albums I'm left with:

2Pac - Me Against The World
A Tribe Called Quest - Midnight Marauders
A Tribe Called Quest - The Low End Theory
Beastie Boys - Paul's Boutique
Big Boi - Sir Lucious Left Foot: The Son Of Chico Dusty
Big Daddy Kane - It's A Big Daddy Thing
Big L - Lifestylez Ov Da Poor & Dangerous
Big Pun - Capital Punishment
Black Moon - Enta Da Stage
Black Sheep - A Wolf In Sheep's Clothing
Brand Nubian - One For All
De La Soul - 3 Feet High and Rising
DJ Shadow - Endtroducing.....
Dr. Dre - 2001
Dr. Dre - The Chronic
Dr. Octagon - Dr. Octagonecologyst
Eminem - The Marshall Mathers LP
EPMD - Strictly Business
Eric B. & Rakim - Follow the Leader
Eric B. & Rakim - Paid In Full
Fugees - The Score
Gang Starr - Moment Of Truth
Gang Starr - Step In The Arena
Ghostface Killah - Ironman
Ghostface Killah - Supreme Clientele
GZA - Liquid Swords
Ice Cube - AmeriKKKa's Most Wanted
J Dilla - Donuts
Jay Z - The Blueprint
Jay-Z - Reasonable Doubt
Jeru The Damaja - The Sun Rises In The East
Kanye West - My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy
Kanye West - The College Dropout
Lauryn Hill - The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill
Main Source - Breaking Atoms
Method Man - Tical
MF DOOM - Operation Doomsday
Mobb Deep - Hell On Earth
Mobb Deep - The Infamous
Mos Def - Black on Both Sides
N.W.A. - Straight Outta Compton
Nas - Illmatic
Notorious B.I.G. - Life After Death
Notorious B.I.G. - Ready To Die
Outkast - Aquemini;
Outkast - Speakerboxxx - The Love Below
Pete Rock & CL Smooth - Mecca And The Soul Brother
Prince Paul - A Prince Among Thieves
Public Enemy - Fear Of A Black Planet
Public Enemy - It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back
Raekwon - Only Built 4 Cuban Linx...
Scarface - The Diary
Slick Rick - The Great Adventures of Slick Rick
Snoop Dogg - Doggystyle
Souls of Mischief - 93 'til Infinity
Talib Kweli & Mos Def - Black Star
The D.O.C. - No One Can Do It Better
The Game - The Documentary
The Pharcyde - Bizarre Ride II The Pharcyde
The Roots - Do You Want More?!!!??!;
The Roots - Illadelph Halflife
Wu-Tang Clan - Enter The Wu-Tang (36 Chambers)

I put that at 62 albums, which might be a bit much, but those are all albums I think every single hip-hop fan should at least have listened to if not own, and that for me makes them classic. The albums in italics are ones that I'm not too sure of - the Meth and Ghostface albums I can't work out if I only think they're classic because I'm a huge Wu fan or if it's because they're actually classic, the Big Boi album is too new to make a firm decision on, I think it's a great album which will hold up but similar to Wu, I love Outkast so I dunno if it's just because of that. Finally the Blueprint I'm not sure of because I always hear it thrown about that it's a classic album, and whilst I think it's good, I'm not quite sure myself if it deserves that status. There might even be one or two albums I deleted by accident I think should be in there

[ThaChronic]

(Original post by munn)
The interludes are what turned me off of the album for a long time, because i'd prefer to stick an album on random or whatever and just listen to the songs and the skits simply wouldn't work.
Listen to the album from start to finish though and they help hold the album together, there's a point around School Spirit with 3 interludes in a 4 track spell which is kind of irritating (and to be honest the album could do without all 3), but apart from that it works really well, take Prince Paul's a Prince Among Thieves for example - 35 tracks, of which 18 are skits, 17 songs. But it works really well because it tells a story and whilst the songs are strong enough to hold up on their own, the 18 skits are what make it a classic album.
The interludes on College Dropout don't quite have the same effect, and whilst the first 3 (Intro, Graduation Day and I'll Fly Away) help set the tone for the album, the other 3 could easily be removed without negatively impacting the album. But 6 skits on a 21 track album still isn't overkill - Only Built 4 Cuban Linx has 18 tracks - 2 standalone skits and 16 songs, of which 4 have long opening intros (Can It All Be So Simple (Remix), Glaciers of Ice, Spot Rusherz and Wu-Gambinos), which is 6 skits on an 18 track album. Granted, the overall quality of the songs on OBFCL is higher than College Dropout, but there are less than 10 hip-hop albums which that can't be said about.

Yet despite that I'll have to disagree with your "only 4 good songs" on the album claim, as every song on it is enjoyable in my eyes, and whilst it's not an Illmatic or Liquid Swords album where 90% of the album could make it's way onto a "greatest hip-hop songs of all-time" list, there's probably only a few albums (those are the only two that come to mind for me), which are like that.

A classic album in my eyes is any album you can say every fan of that genre should own (or at the very least, listen to and make the decision yourself). College Dropout comes under that category. I'd agree that Nas only has one album that you can really say that about, yet I'd say Kanye has two (college dropout and my dark and twisted fantasy) but also I'd still say there aren't all that many albums that come into that category. Less than 50 definitely (probably much less, it's a ballpark figure). Is 50 too many? It works out as roughly 2 classic albums a year for the last 25 years. There probably isn't that many but it's not unreasonable in my eyes.
Out of sheer boredom I'm going to copy and paste my entire hip-hop album collection into this, then delete everything that isn't "classic" and see what's left.

From 353 albums I'm left with:

2Pac - Me Against The World
A Tribe Called Quest - Midnight Marauders
A Tribe Called Quest - The Low End Theory
Beastie Boys - Paul's Boutique
Big Boi - Sir Lucious Left Foot: The Son Of Chico Dusty
Big Daddy Kane - It's A Big Daddy Thing
Big L - Lifestylez Ov Da Poor & Dangerous
Big Pun - Capital Punishment
Black Moon - Enta Da Stage
Black Sheep - A Wolf In Sheep's Clothing
Brand Nubian - One For All
De La Soul - 3 Feet High and Rising
DJ Shadow - Endtroducing.....
Dr. Dre - 2001
Dr. Dre - The Chronic
Dr. Octagon - Dr. Octagonecologyst
Eminem - The Marshall Mathers LP
EPMD - Strictly Business
Eric B. & Rakim - Follow the Leader
Eric B. & Rakim - Paid In Full
Fugees - The Score
Gang Starr - Moment Of Truth
Gang Starr - Step In The Arena
Ghostface Killah - Ironman
Ghostface Killah - Supreme Clientele
GZA - Liquid Swords
Ice Cube - AmeriKKKa's Most Wanted
J Dilla - Donuts
Jay Z - The Blueprint
Jay-Z - Reasonable Doubt
Jeru The Damaja - The Sun Rises In The East
Kanye West - My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy
Kanye West - The College Dropout
Lauryn Hill - The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill
Main Source - Breaking Atoms
Method Man - Tical
MF DOOM - Operation Doomsday
Mobb Deep - Hell On Earth
Mobb Deep - The Infamous
Mos Def - Black on Both Sides
N.W.A. - Straight Outta Compton
Nas - Illmatic
Notorious B.I.G. - Life After Death
Notorious B.I.G. - Ready To Die
Outkast - Aquemini;
Outkast - Speakerboxxx - The Love Below
Pete Rock & CL Smooth - Mecca And The Soul Brother
Prince Paul - A Prince Among Thieves
Public Enemy - Fear Of A Black Planet
Public Enemy - It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back
Raekwon - Only Built 4 Cuban Linx...
Scarface - The Diary
Slick Rick - The Great Adventures of Slick Rick
Snoop Dogg - Doggystyle
Souls of Mischief - 93 'til Infinity
Talib Kweli & Mos Def - Black Star
The D.O.C. - No One Can Do It Better
The Game - The Documentary
The Pharcyde - Bizarre Ride II The Pharcyde
The Roots - Do You Want More?!!!??!;
The Roots - Illadelph Halflife
Wu-Tang Clan - Enter The Wu-Tang (36 Chambers)

I put that at 62 albums, which might be a bit much, but those are all albums I think every single hip-hop fan should at least have listened to if not own, and that for me makes them classic. The albums in italics are ones that I'm not too sure of - the Meth and Ghostface albums I can't work out if I only think they're classic because I'm a huge Wu fan or if it's because they're actually classic, the Big Boi album is too new to make a firm decision on, I think it's a great album which will hold up but similar to Wu, I love Outkast so I dunno if it's just because of that. Finally the Blueprint I'm not sure of because I always hear it thrown about that it's a classic album, and whilst I think it's good, I'm not quite sure myself if it deserves that status. There might even be one or two albums I deleted by accident I think should be in there

Somebody rep this man for me since I can't

[dgeorge]

Great producer/beat maker

In terms of actual rapping ability - i'd say he's average to slightly above average

That being said, I really do love his storytelling ability.

Not to mention, you have to give him credit with how far he has pushed the envelope in terms of how far out there he gets with his music, even though it isn't many people's taste (including my own)

I personally love his first "trilogy" and College Dropout and Graduation are two of my favorite albums of all time

[GooseNation]

No beats. No music. Just Yeezy's words. I love this.

[shyamshah]

Hes alright, liked his album Graduation but hes not one of the best ever

[Sapien]

Gon' bring trap music to mainstream

[Sapien]

If I had to cut down to the 'classics':

(Original post by munn)
Big Boi - Sir Lucious Left Foot: The Son Of Chico Dusty
Dr. Dre - The Chronic
GZA - Liquid Swords
Jay Z - The Blueprint
Jay-Z - Reasonable Doubt
Kanye West - My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy
Outkast - Speakerboxxx - The Love Below
Nas - Illmatic

Outkast - Stankonia
Clipse - Hell Hath No Fury
Madvillain - Madvillainy

[tooambitious]

(Original post by munn)
The interludes are what turned me off of the album for a long time, because i'd prefer to stick an album on random or whatever and just listen to the songs and the skits simply wouldn't work.
Listen to the album from start to finish though and they help hold the album together, there's a point around School Spirit with 3 interludes in a 4 track spell which is kind of irritating (and to be honest the album could do without all 3), but apart from that it works really well, take Prince Paul's a Prince Among Thieves for example - 35 tracks, of which 18 are skits, 17 songs. But it works really well because it tells a story and whilst the songs are strong enough to hold up on their own, the 18 skits are what make it a classic album.
The interludes on College Dropout don't quite have the same effect, and whilst the first 3 (Intro, Graduation Day and I'll Fly Away) help set the tone for the album, the other 3 could easily be removed without negatively impacting the album. But 6 skits on a 21 track album still isn't overkill - Only Built 4 Cuban Linx has 18 tracks - 2 standalone skits and 16 songs, of which 4 have long opening intros (Can It All Be So Simple (Remix), Glaciers of Ice, Spot Rusherz and Wu-Gambinos), which is 6 skits on an 18 track album. Granted, the overall quality of the songs on OBFCL is higher than College Dropout, but there are less than 10 hip-hop albums which that can't be said about.

Yet despite that I'll have to disagree with your "only 4 good songs" on the album claim, as every song on it is enjoyable in my eyes, and whilst it's not an Illmatic or Liquid Swords album where 90% of the album could make it's way onto a "greatest hip-hop songs of all-time" list, there's probably only a few albums (those are the only two that come to mind for me), which are like that.

A classic album in my eyes is any album you can say every fan of that genre should own (or at the very least, listen to and make the decision yourself). College Dropout comes under that category. I'd agree that Nas only has one album that you can really say that about, yet I'd say Kanye has two (college dropout and my dark and twisted fantasy) but also I'd still say there aren't all that many albums that come into that category. Less than 50 definitely (probably much less, it's a ballpark figure). Is 50 too many? It works out as roughly 2 classic albums a year for the last 25 years. There probably isn't that many but it's not unreasonable in my eyes.
Out of sheer boredom I'm going to copy and paste my entire hip-hop album collection into this, then delete everything that isn't "classic" and see what's left.

From 353 albums I'm left with:

2Pac - Me Against The World
A Tribe Called Quest - Midnight Marauders
A Tribe Called Quest - The Low End Theory
Beastie Boys - Paul's Boutique
Big Boi - Sir Lucious Left Foot: The Son Of Chico Dusty
Big Daddy Kane - It's A Big Daddy Thing
Big L - Lifestylez Ov Da Poor & Dangerous
Big Pun - Capital Punishment
Black Moon - Enta Da Stage
Black Sheep - A Wolf In Sheep's Clothing
Brand Nubian - One For All
De La Soul - 3 Feet High and Rising
DJ Shadow - Endtroducing.....
Dr. Dre - 2001
Dr. Dre - The Chronic
Dr. Octagon - Dr. Octagonecologyst
Eminem - The Marshall Mathers LP
EPMD - Strictly Business
Eric B. & Rakim - Follow the Leader
Eric B. & Rakim - Paid In Full
Fugees - The Score
Gang Starr - Moment Of Truth
Gang Starr - Step In The Arena
Ghostface Killah - Ironman
Ghostface Killah - Supreme Clientele
GZA - Liquid Swords
Ice Cube - AmeriKKKa's Most Wanted
J Dilla - Donuts
Jay Z - The Blueprint
Jay-Z - Reasonable Doubt
Jeru The Damaja - The Sun Rises In The East
Kanye West - My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy
Kanye West - The College Dropout
Lauryn Hill - The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill
Main Source - Breaking Atoms
Method Man - Tical
MF DOOM - Operation Doomsday
Mobb Deep - Hell On Earth
Mobb Deep - The Infamous
Mos Def - Black on Both Sides
N.W.A. - Straight Outta Compton
Nas - Illmatic
Notorious B.I.G. - Life After Death
Notorious B.I.G. - Ready To Die
Outkast - Aquemini;
Outkast - Speakerboxxx - The Love Below
Pete Rock & CL Smooth - Mecca And The Soul Brother
Prince Paul - A Prince Among Thieves
Public Enemy - Fear Of A Black Planet
Public Enemy - It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back
Raekwon - Only Built 4 Cuban Linx...
Scarface - The Diary
Slick Rick - The Great Adventures of Slick Rick
Snoop Dogg - Doggystyle
Souls of Mischief - 93 'til Infinity
Talib Kweli & Mos Def - Black Star
The D.O.C. - No One Can Do It Better
The Game - The Documentary
The Pharcyde - Bizarre Ride II The Pharcyde
The Roots - Do You Want More?!!!??!;
The Roots - Illadelph Halflife
Wu-Tang Clan - Enter The Wu-Tang (36 Chambers)

I put that at 62 albums, which might be a bit much, but those are all albums I think every single hip-hop fan should at least have listened to if not own, and that for me makes them classic. The albums in italics are ones that I'm not too sure of - the Meth and Ghostface albums I can't work out if I only think they're classic because I'm a huge Wu fan or if it's because they're actually classic, the Big Boi album is too new to make a firm decision on, I think it's a great album which will hold up but similar to Wu, I love Outkast so I dunno if it's just because of that. Finally the Blueprint I'm not sure of because I always hear it thrown about that it's a classic album, and whilst I think it's good, I'm not quite sure myself if it deserves that status. There might even be one or two albums I deleted by accident I think should be in there

greatly appreciated

[munn]

(Original post by Sapien)
If I had to cut down to the 'classics':


Outkast - Stankonia
Clipse - Hell Hath No Fury
Madvillain - Madvillainy

I find that interesting that although you cut it down to 11 albums you still have the Big Boi album in there. It really is fantastic isn't it? There's just something about it which has me unsure of whether or not it's a "classic" album

[amii_G]

(Original post by Sapien)
Gon' bring trap music to mainstream

... and that ain't a good thing. More excited about his Bieber tracks.

Who's going to the WTT tour?