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Original post by sexbo
I never said it was easy, I said it's the easiest subject to teach. English is easier than maths but it's still harder to teach.


if you don't even understand the topic then you can open a textbook beforehand and look at the examples where as in English you have to interpret and analyse a Specific text and whatever example they have in the textbook won't really help you make another where as an example in a maths textbook will allow you to have the understanding to solve pritty much all problems.
Original post by Dalek1099
Worksheets Vs Textbooks not much different and my Yr8 and Yr9 teacher use to teach a subject and then do textbook work and help people if they are stuck but my Y10 teacher teaches a topic,,then does group work tasks and semi-tasks and even took my pen off me because she had given the class time for reading the question and not answering it and she is even trying to incorporate English into the subject-instructions for mathematics.Learning is much for fun by the textbook.I hate all this group work and creative nonsense eg.posters,instructions.


I'm not talking about worksheets or posters. I'm talking about interestnig activites which promote learning and ensure engagement.
Original post by Dalek1099
if you don't even understand the topic then you can open a textbook beforehand and look at the examples where as in English you have to interpret and analyse a Specific text and whatever example they have in the textbook won't really help you make another where as an example in a maths textbook will allow you to have the understanding to solve pritty much all problems.


That's great for a high ability pupil. But not many GCSE students will look at the textbook voluntarily. Especially students who hate/fear maths and will do anything but work. It's a constant battle to try and keep students engaged and you have the pressure of senior management trying to ensure that the maximum amount of students possibile get a C at GCSE. Something that alot of other subjects don't have.

Plus as I said before alot of lower ability students will lack many numeracy concepts (I met a year 11 recently who couldn't multiply by 3).
(edited 12 years ago)
Original post by barnisaurusrex
Do you teach maths?


Yes, also philosophy, economics and business - but mainly maths.

Original post by barnisaurusrex
I seem to argue a lot with people about how many hours a week maths teachers work. As far as I can see, marking would take next to no time (provided you've figured out the answers in advance - it's essentially a tick job) and I feel pretty confident of my ability to make up decent lessons on the fly, with a bit of practice of course.

I concede that an english teacher may have many essays to read etc. causing them to work much longer hours, but I don't see the relevance to maths teaching.


Marking takes longer than you think. It is no longer deemed acceptable to "tick and flick" the book - you have to set specific targets for each student which link to the government's core objectives. The marking is a particular bother with key stage 3. However the amount of marking and assessment depends on the school policies - you may be required to set targets for each class every couple of weeks (a bugger if you have lots of classes).
Even tick and flick takes a while - a student may do 300 questions in a week - ticking and flicking, even with the answers, can take a while - and that's before you get onto correcting student work and showing why it's wrong (I don't recommend marking every bit of work).

Every teacher thinks he can teach on the fly before he starts - I certainly believed I could. In short, you can't. You're school may require lesson plans each lesson, but regardless, you will need clear pre-lesson thought. Forget "which exercises from the book and what examples on the board". Think "How do I hand out the books quickly without the class becoming disruptive, what do I do when little johnny decides he won't do exercise A and throws a tantrum, what extra resources can be used to support those that don't get the mathematical explanation for pythagoras etc."

Original post by sexbo
I never said it was easy, I said it's the easiest subject to teach. English is easier than maths but it's still harder to teach.


Doesn't work like that. I teach Maths, Economics, Philosophy and Business. They all have their challenges. My Year 8 maths last year provided the biggest challenge, this year it's the Yr 12 philosophy. A subject isn't easier or harder to teach, it depends on the class.
Original post by London Prophet
Yes, also philosophy, economics and business - but mainly maths.



Marking takes longer than you think. It is no longer deemed acceptable to "tick and flick" the book - you have to set specific targets for each student which link to the government's core objectives. The marking is a particular bother with key stage 3. However the amount of marking and assessment depends on the school policies - you may be required to set targets for each class every couple of weeks (a bugger if you have lots of classes).
Even tick and flick takes a while - a student may do 300 questions in a week - ticking and flicking, even with the answers, can take a while - and that's before you get onto correcting student work and showing why it's wrong (I don't recommend marking every bit of work).

Every teacher thinks he can teach on the fly before he starts - I certainly believed I could. In short, you can't. You're school may require lesson plans each lesson, but regardless, you will need clear pre-lesson thought. Forget "which exercises from the book and what examples on the board". Think "How do I hand out the books quickly without the class becoming disruptive, what do I do when little johnny decides he won't do exercise A and throws a tantrum, what extra resources can be used to support those that don't get the mathematical explanation for pythagoras etc."



Doesn't work like that. I teach Maths, Economics, Philosophy and Business. They all have their challenges. My Year 8 maths last year provided the biggest challenge, this year it's the Yr 12 philosophy. A subject isn't easier or harder to teach, it depends on the class.



Many teachers,especially in maths,tick and flick-especially,in an exercise books-not necessarily for written assessments or booklets.You don't have to keep up with the marking of books either-you can probably just mark the books ever holiday and lots of my teachers took weeks to mark things.My maths teacher has took the maths books home to mark over Easter and hasn't marked the books for ages.
Original post by cat_2002_12
I'm counting on you here..


That's probably a bad move. I routinely bow out when it looks like people are about to conclude that all teachers are inherently lazy and only do the job because:

a) the holidays are long

b) they stop work at 3.30 p.m.

c) they wouldn't cut it in the real world

d) they couldn't think of anything better to do with their low-class degree

e) they hate children and want to make them suffer
Original post by Mr M
That's probably a bad move. I routinely bow out when it looks like people are about to conclude that all teachers are inherently lazy and only do the job because:

a) the holidays are long

b) they stop work at 3.30 p.m.

c) they wouldn't cut it in the real world

d) they couldn't think of anything better to do with their low-class degree

e) they hate children and want to make them suffer


Just goes to show how wrong those perceptions really are. If only I stopped work at half 3. :rolleyes:
Original post by sexbo
Maths is the absolute easiest subject to teach. You teach them the steps, they follow it, they pass the test. And it's not even steps that can go wrong like in cooking or chemistry. The pupils don't even need to understand what they are doing. All of my maths class could integrate after being told "add one to the power and divide by the new power". But did they know that they were really doing a summation of infinitely small terms? Nope.This is probably more a failing of the exam board syllabus than the subject itself however.


That's how you'd teach that?

Well, I'm an English teacher, and I don't understand. I don't know what any of the words or concepts mean, and I don't have any understanding of how the formula works. I think there are a lot of people who would be incredibly confused by that explanation. You'd need a lot more thought to your lesson than that. Everyone learns in different ways, and you have to be able to incorporate that into your teaching, or all kids who don't learn exactly the same way as you will be neglected.

I would also like to point out that not everyone is good at maths. I have dyscalculia, and all through school struggled to the point of tears with maths lessons.

Well that's not true. Up until about Year 8 I struggled to the point of tears. After that I learnt that I could just kick up a fuss and get removed from the room, or I could avoid doing work through bad behaviour. If you really think that maths is just about setting questions from a textbook, expect an entire class full of kids who behave in that manner because kids will quickly learn which subject is routinely boring or which is going to contain a lot of information they don't understand.


Every lesson requires thorough planning. What if you need to move onto a topic that doesn't have a textbook to use as a crutch? How will you teach if all you know how to do is set exercises from a book?
Original post by sexbo
You teach them the steps, they follow it, they pass the test.


This seems a horribly parochial view of maths teaching.
Original post by cat_2002_12
What about the fact that alot of pupils will completely hate this subject? What about the pupils in year 11 who still can't multiply? You clearly did well at the subject and therefore have no concept of it being difficult and how lower ability students find it. What about the fact that it is a subject which is less naturally engaging than other subjects? Making it relevant and interesting is a massive challenge. I assure you it is NOT easy in any way.


I couldn't multiply the conventional way when I started A-level maths all those years ago, it's pretty irrelevant - numeracy is to maths as spelling is to poetry.

And I disagree - I think maths is naturally engaging, I certainly found it so at school, and making it relevant is not difficult if you have a passion for mathematics outside of just passing exams.

If any student asked me what the point of learning pythagoras was, or why they need to know how to construct a histogram, or why quadratic equations are useful, I could literally reel off half-a-dozen examples off the top of my head which are both interesting and relevant to them.
Original post by Suzanathema
That's how you'd teach that?

Well, I'm an English teacher, and I don't understand. I don't know what any of the words or concepts mean, and I don't have any understanding of how the formula works. I think there are a lot of people who would be incredibly confused by that explanation. You'd need a lot more thought to your lesson than that. Everyone learns in different ways, and you have to be able to incorporate that into your teaching, or all kids who don't learn exactly the same way as you will be neglected.

I would also like to point out that not everyone is good at maths. I have dyscalculia, and all through school struggled to the point of tears with maths lessons.

Well that's not true. Up until about Year 8 I struggled to the point of tears. After that I learnt that I could just kick up a fuss and get removed from the room, or I could avoid doing work through bad behaviour. If you really think that maths is just about setting questions from a textbook, expect an entire class full of kids who behave in that manner because kids will quickly learn which subject is routinely boring or which is going to contain a lot of information they don't understand.


Every lesson requires thorough planning. What if you need to move onto a topic that doesn't have a textbook to use as a crutch? How will you teach if all you know how to do is set exercises from a book?


If you want your class to get decent grades, it's very important they follow the syllabus and hence the books-written-by-senior-examiners very closely.
Original post by barnisaurusrex
I couldn't multiply the conventional way when I started A-level maths all those years ago, it's pretty irrelevant - numeracy is to maths as spelling is to poetry.

And I disagree - I think maths is naturally engaging, I certainly found it so at school, and making it relevant is not difficult if you have a passion for mathematics outside of just passing exams.

If any student asked me what the point of learning pythagoras was, or why they need to know how to construct a histogram, or why quadratic equations are useful, I could literally reel off half-a-dozen examples off the top of my head which are both interesting and relevant to them.


Yeah so a year 11 who can't multiply by 3 can easily pass a GCSE? Anyway really bored of this now. You go do it if it's so easy. I can only hope I'm one day your mentor and can see how naturally brilliant you are. For the rest of us it really isn't so simple
Original post by barnisaurusrex
If you want your class to get decent grades, it's very important they follow the syllabus and hence the books-written-by-senior-examiners very closely.


How boring.

Actually, as a teacher, it's your job to interpret that.


You also ignored my point about how boring and offputting such methods are to children who hate maths. Or do they not deserve to get decent grades too?
Original post by barnisaurusrex
I could literally reel off half-a-dozen examples off the top of my head which are both interesting and relevant to them.


"What's the point of algebra? My mum doesn't know anyone who has ever used algebra and everyone in her factory agrees it is a pile of crap and we shouldn't have to learn it. My dad hasn't used any maths since he left school and he has two cars and a snooker table and he said he's going to sort you out if you keep wasting my time."

30 students bang on their desks and heckle you.

Over to you.
(edited 12 years ago)
Original post by Mr M
"What's the point of algebra? My mum doesn't know anyone who has ever used algebra and everyone in her factory agrees it is a pile of crap and we shouldn't have to learn it. My dad hasn't used any maths since he left school and he has two cars and a snooker table and he said he's going to sort you out if you keep wasting my time."

30 students bang on their desks and heckle you.

Over to you.


I will agree with the fact that Maths above GCSE Grade C isn't used in life,which is very strange because i don't understand why they teach it.Noone uses X2 or irrational surds and messes with them but maths is very fun and i love algebra but there actually is no point in it.
Original post by Dalek1099
I will agree with the fact that Maths above GCSE Grade C isn't used in life,which is very strange because i don't understand why they teach it.Noone uses X2 or irrational surds and messes with them but maths is very fun and i love algebra but there actually is no point in it.


The Government has announced that, by 2021, a minimum of 80% of young people must study mathematics to the age of 18. Bizarrely they believe a more advanced understanding of this silly, pointless subject is vital for our national economy! Why oh why didn't they hire you as policy consultant?
Original post by Mr M
The Government has announced that, by 2021, a minimum of 80% of young people must study mathematics to the age of 18. Bizarrely they believe a more advanced understanding of this silly, pointless subject is vital for our national economy! Why oh why didn't they hire you as policy consultant?


I will be studying A-Level Maths and is the government really planning to force A-Level Maths on people,when allow its fun and i really like it,it really isn't useful in society because only basic maths is ever needed no algebra in society.
Original post by Mr M
The Government has announced that, by 2021, a minimum of 80% of young people must study mathematics to the age of 18. Bizarrely they believe a more advanced understanding of this silly, pointless subject is vital for our national economy! Why oh why didn't they hire you as policy consultant?


But didn't you know? Everyone who's ever been to school is an expert on education!

I suppose at least that target means that kids can do GCSE retakes, right? I think I would have purposely failed GCSE to avoid doing it at a higher level if I knew I had to keep going with it....


(subject snobbery not intended, I think forcing kids to study anything they actively dislike at KS5 is a bad idea)
Original post by Suzanathema
But didn't you know? Everyone who's ever been to school is an expert on education!

I suppose at least that target means that kids can do GCSE retakes, right? I think I would have purposely failed GCSE to avoid doing it at a higher level if I knew I had to keep going with it....


(subject snobbery not intended, I think forcing kids to study anything they actively dislike at KS5 is a bad idea)


Compulsory repeated GCSE retakes for anyone who doesn't have a C, then a range of new courses as well as AS/A2 maths.
Original post by Dalek1099
I will agree with the fact that Maths above GCSE Grade C isn't used in life,which is very strange because i don't understand why they teach it.Noone uses X2 or irrational surds and messes with them but maths is very fun and i love algebra but there actually is no point in it.


Whereas I use my knowledge of Ox Bow lakes, the critical analysis of poems by Robert Frost and the reactions of Sodium Hydroxide on a regular basis!

GCSE isn't about learning facts for when you're older - it's about learning skills. Maths is about learning to think in clear logical steps. I've got a degree from Oxford and I've never been asked to use an ISLM diagram to analyse a change in interest rates on the economy. However, learning to think through problems clearly, gut a book in 30 minutes, and whip out an essay in an evening have been invaluable skills.

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