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Daily Mail-esque agenda, but how practical are these ideas?

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    They're ones which I wish in an ideal world would actually work (me being a huge champagne socialist), which I think would solve our social and financial difficulties. Please explain why they don't already exist:

    - Make all obesity-related and drug-abuse treatment etc exempt from NHS, saving billions

    - Legalise drugs but tax them hugely

    - Return new universities to technical college/Polytechnic status, and set up work experience/apprenticeship schemes within these colleges for the unemployed

    - Cut number of university courses in subjects where graduate employment levels are low, and abolish tuition fees. Those courses which remain are seen as training for future work rather than just further education degrees

    - University courses should all include mandatory work-experience placements in the summer holidays, whether academic placements with older professionals or vocational, and must be passed to ensure successful completion of the course

    - Reduce jobseekers benefits to food, clothing, heat and housing vouchers, with transport to work free

    - Set up more youth clubs and activity centres for 13 - 17 year olds: those too young to go to the pub!

    - Chuck all those young offenders into army-style training camps where they learn real skills and discipline.

    Flames welcome - I really want to understand why we don't already have all of the above!
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    (Original post by pikaboo)
    They're ones which I wish in an ideal world would actually work (me being a huge champagne socialist), which I think would solve our social and financial difficulties. Please explain why they don't already exist:

    - Make all obesity-related and drug-abuse treatment etc exempt from NHS, saving billions
    Fat people pay tax too.

    - Legalise drugs but tax them hugely
    Would just make policing it impossible and they would still be sold on the street by people who have no intention of sending receipts to HMRC.
    - Return new universities to technical college/Polytechnic status, and set up work experience/apprenticeship schemes within these colleges for the unemployed
    Why?
    - Cut number of university courses in subjects where graduate employment levels are low, and abolish tuition fees. Those courses which remain are seen as training for future work rather than just further education degrees
    employment of graduates or employment in graduate related jobs?
    - University courses should all include mandatory work-experience placements in the summer holidays, whether academic placements with older professionals or vocational, and must be passed to ensure successful completion of the course
    Where? In the students home town? At what expense? Are they paid? Given larger loans?
    - Reduce jobseekers benefits to food, clothing, heat and housing vouchers, with transport to work free
    I predict a riot.
    - Set up more youth clubs and activity centres for 13 - 17 year olds: those too young to go to the pub!
    The current ones aren't used that often. It's not like they're bursting.
    - Chuck all those young offenders into army-style training camps where they learn real skills and discipline.
    Real skills like how to fight properly?
    Flames welcome - I really want to understand why we don't already have all of the above!
    Because we don't live in a tin-pot dictatorship.
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    (Original post by pikaboo)
    They're ones which I wish in an ideal world would actually work (me being a huge champagne socialist), which I think would solve our social and financial difficulties. Please explain why they don't already exist:

    - Make all obesity-related and drug-abuse treatment etc exempt from NHS, saving billions

    - Legalise drugs but tax them hugely

    - Return new universities to technical college/Polytechnic status, and set up work experience/apprenticeship schemes within these colleges for the unemployed

    - Cut number of university courses in subjects where graduate employment levels are low, and abolish tuition fees. Those courses which remain are seen as training for future work rather than just further education degrees

    - University courses should all include mandatory work-experience placements in the summer holidays, whether academic placements with older professionals or vocational, and must be passed to ensure successful completion of the course

    - Reduce jobseekers benefits to food, clothing, heat and housing vouchers, with transport to work free

    - Set up more youth clubs and activity centres for 13 - 17 year olds: those too young to go to the pub!

    - Chuck all those young offenders into army-style training camps where they learn real skills and discipline.

    Flames welcome - I really want to understand why we don't already have all of the above!
    Give yutes weapon training? Maybe there would be less innocent bystanders... could work.
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    You realise 3, 4 and 5 are pretty contradictory right?

    Basically you'd end up with no degrees.
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    (Original post by Quady)
    You realise 3, 4 and 5 are pretty contradictory right?

    Basically you'd end up with no degrees.
    They're not contradictory at all. I'm all for cutting down the 'University' status of universities that are low in the league tables for graduate employment, and high in drop-out rates. If we converted these to more vocational-style colleges, people who attend would be learning actual valuable work skills.
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    (Original post by Bonged.)
    Give yutes weapon training? Maybe there would be less innocent bystanders... could work.
    Not weapons training...I was thinking of a Borstal-style camp...
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    Reduce jobseekers benefits to food, clothing, heat and housing vouchers, with transport to work free

    We already do this. Someone people are (like myself) able to budget very well so that we are able to, not just exist by eating and keeping warm, but to live as well.
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    (Original post by pikaboo)
    They're not contradictory at all. I'm all for cutting down the 'University' status of universities that are low in the league tables for graduate employment, and high in drop-out rates. If we converted these to more vocational-style colleges, people who attend would be learning actual valuable work skills.
    Sure, and what would you do with medieval history in the remaining universities?
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    (Original post by Quady)
    Sure, and what would you do with medieval history in the remaining universities?
    They can shadow the professors, or go on research trips, or spend a summer abroad in a linked Uni, etc.
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    (Original post by Martyn*)
    Reduce jobseekers benefits to food, clothing, heat and housing vouchers, with transport to work free

    We already do this. Someone people are (like myself) able to budget very well so that we are able to, not just exist by eating and keeping warm, but to live as well.
    Have benefits definitely been reduced to vouchers then? I know so many families on the estate who spend their benefit money on cigarettes, booze, scratchcards and can still afford a HD TV...
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    (Original post by pikaboo)
    They can shadow the professors, or go on research trips, or spend a summer abroad in a linked Uni, etc.
    Oh right ok, so Unis will become tech colleges and unis will get more money?

    Cool, more deficit for da UK
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    (Original post by pikaboo)
    They're ones which I wish in an ideal world would actually work (me being a huge champagne socialist), which I think would solve our social and financial difficulties. Please explain why they don't already exist:

    - Make all obesity-related and drug-abuse treatment etc exempt from NHS, saving billions

    - Legalise drugs but tax them hugely

    - Return new universities to technical college/Polytechnic status, and set up work experience/apprenticeship schemes within these colleges for the unemployed

    - Cut number of university courses in subjects where graduate employment levels are low, and abolish tuition fees. Those courses which remain are seen as training for future work rather than just further education degrees

    - University courses should all include mandatory work-experience placements in the summer holidays, whether academic placements with older professionals or vocational, and must be passed to ensure successful completion of the course

    - Reduce jobseekers benefits to food, clothing, heat and housing vouchers, with transport to work free

    - Set up more youth clubs and activity centres for 13 - 17 year olds: those too young to go to the pub!

    - Chuck all those young offenders into army-style training camps where they learn real skills and discipline.

    Flames welcome - I really want to understand why we don't already have all of the above!
    You don't sound like much of a socialist to me. Champagne or otherwise.

    Almost all of what you've proposed typically come from libertarian or conservative positions.

    The ones which I've put in bold are the ones that seem to me pretty fascist or counter-revolutionary.
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    (Original post by pikaboo)
    Have benefits definitely been reduced to vouchers then? I know so many families on the estate who spend their benefit money on cigarettes, booze, scratchcards and can still afford a HD TV...
    N. But JSA is given for those items. People who I know who spend their JSA on drugs barely eat, or do anything else. You can get a HD TV from Cash Converters for as little as £5 per week. Perhaps they saved up for it?

    There are some of us who don't spend their money like that, but have enough to spend on food, pay their internet bill, go to the gym (or take up a hobby), and buy the odd x-box game as a treat. They get by. Which is what JSA is meant to do. Now, benefits is only a safety net, not a lifetsyle choice. I understand that. But we have to balance things here. You have to give people something to live for. I spend my money on the gym, and on the internet. Without those things my life would diminish. It allows me to get through the day and have something to look forward to. What is it like to just go from one day to the next eating, keeping warm, and looking for a job? Not the life I want to live at the moment. Those things are important, but life should be much more than that.

    Let people spend their benefits how they want; it is theirs legally. If people want to ruin their health by spending money on booze and drugs, that is their choice ultimately. But not everyone does. And to diminish the lives of some people who don't spend their money on those things just to clamp down on those that do, is just unfair.
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    (Original post by Quady)
    Oh right ok, so Unis will become tech colleges and unis will get more money?

    Cool, more deficit for da UK
    I think you've completely missed my point. Before 1992, polytechnics existed which served to provide education for work and had a strong focus on engineering and applied science (subjects we desperately need to encourage to build up our economy). Now that the Government is subsidising these newly-awarded University institutions heavily in order to award degrees, I think this is a huge mistake.
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    (Original post by Martyn*)
    N. But JSA is given for those items. People who I know who spend their JSA on drugs barely eat, or do anything else. You can get a HD TV from Cash Converters for as little as £5 per week. Perhaps they saved up for it?

    There are some of us who don't spend their money like that, but have enough to spend on food, pay their internet bill, go to the gym (or take up a hobby), and buy the odd x-box game as a treat. They get by. Which is what JSA is meant to do. Now, benefits is only a safety net, not a lifetsyle choice. I understand that. But we have to balance things here. You have to give people something to live for. I spend my money on the gym, and on the internet. Without those things my life would diminish. It allows me to get through the day and have something to look forward to. What is it like to just go from one day to the next eating, keeping warm, and looking for a job? Not the life I want to live at the moment. Those things are important, but life should be much more than that.

    Let people spend their benefits how they want; it is theirs legally. If people want to ruin their health by spending money on booze and drugs, that is their choice ultimately. But not everyone does. And to diminish the lives of some people who don't spend their money on those things just to clamp down on those that do, is just unfair.
    You make some good points, but I am wishing for a system that would build aspirations and limit the underclass culture within a completely unsustainable system (i.e. not doling out the money for them to spend as they wish). Hopefully then a culture would emerge where it is absolutely vital to have ambition and work hard, whether on Government work schemes or through direct employment, otherwise they literally would not be able to afford a lifestyle.
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    (Original post by pikaboo)
    I think you've completely missed my point. Before 1992, polytechnics existed which served to provide education for work and had a strong focus on engineering and applied science (subjects we desperately need to encourage to build up our economy). Now that the Government is subsidising these newly-awarded University institutions heavily in order to award degrees, I think this is a huge mistake.
    So they weren't subsidised heavily before?

    ie would they be cheaper to run if converted back to polys? (how much ish?)
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    (Original post by Quady)
    So they weren't subsidised heavily before?

    ie would they be cheaper to run if converted back to polys? (how much ish?)
    I don't have the figures, but I'm sure that if polys were geared towards vocational work more than awarding degrees, then extra revenue would be generated through their graduates' taxes (i.e. they're more employable than had they earned a crappy degree with no work experience!)
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    (Original post by pikaboo)
    They're ones which I wish in an ideal world would actually work (me being a huge champagne socialist), which I think would solve our social and financial difficulties. Please explain why they don't already exist:

    - Make all obesity-related and drug-abuse treatment etc exempt from NHS, saving billions
    Just to pick up on this - why? Why do you propose this?
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    (Original post by pikaboo)
    They're ones which I wish in an ideal world would actually work (me being a huge champagne socialist), which I think would solve our social and financial difficulties. Please explain why they don't already exist:

    - Make all obesity-related and drug-abuse treatment etc exempt from NHS, saving billions
    Can't believe any rational person would support this. As someone mentioned previously, smokers and obese people also pay tax towards the NHS; also, tax in the form of cigarettes earns billions for the government. Furthermore, as has been mentioned countless times, smoking and obesity are but two examples of the countless self-inflicted problems that are treated on the NHS.
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    (Original post by pgreg1)
    Can't believe any rational person would support this. As someone mentioned previously, smokers and obese people also pay tax towards the NHS; also, tax in the form of cigarettes earns billions for the government. Furthermore, as has been mentioned countless times, smoking and obesity are but two examples of the countless self-inflicted problems that are treated on the NHS.
    The solution on this one is, in my opinion, somewhere in the middle. Refuse to treat people for smoking related diseases, unless they give up smoking after diagnosis. Similarly, refuse to treat obese or overweight people who do not agree to a diet program, and regulate the food of those in hospital to help them lose weight (if this means restricting what is brought in by visitors then so be it).

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