[medic_armadillo7]

I find much of the HGH, synthol and anabolic steriod taking is largely done by the heavyweight and superheavyweights. I seem to get the idea that it's unfortunately endemic in professional bodybuilding, with many people like Scott Milne and Eddie Moyzan having done time in jail for possession, and many more like Tom Prince and Jay Cutler admitting they've used it in the past.

[Old School]

(Original post by medic_armadillo7)
Actually, that's not true. Steroids particularly anabolic steroids cause your heart muscle to get larger as well as other muscles and your blood pressure to go up, so you then become prone to heart attacks, rapid heart failure due to a large floppy heart (cardiomyopathy), strokes and not to mention your kidneys become completely shot to pieces do to high blood pressure.

Obvious medical student is obvious . May actually be able to have a sensible discussion here.

Use of anabolic steroids will not cause cardiomyopathy- anabolic steroids have two main actions- they increase the rate of protein synthesis and block cortisol in the muscle tissue. This serves to improve recovery and increase muscle growth if a training stimulus is applied.

Anabolic steroids don't really cause much in the way of growth to cardiac muscle simply because cardiac muscle doesn't respond to training stimuli in the same way that skeletal muscle does- i.e. through hypertrophy. This is why sprinters, american football players, rugby players and other high performance athletes don't drop dead from heart conditions (like dilated cardiomyopathy). A bigger heart is less efficient- the body will not respond to what is essentially a massive dose of a naturally occurring hormone (testosterone) in a way that makes no biological sense.

Growth hormone will cause organomegaly. However, GH is not a steroid and therefore does not really come into this discussion.

Hypertension, whilst a notable side effect of anabolic steroid use, becomes less of an issue if you don't drop your conditioning work from your training and you keep your diet in check.

You will **** up your liver if you remain on gear (particularly orals- thanks to first pass metabolism) for a long period of time at high doses. This is true of any drug that actually works.

Just FYI- I don't use anabolics and I doubt I ever will- nor do I condone steroid use. At the end of the day they are illegal drugs and should be treated as such. However, the ignorance and generally retarded attitudes towards them from 99% of the population is annoying. It's the media's fault, but you just have to lol at society when cigarettes and alcohol (which are proven to kill hundreds of thousands of people per anum) are readily sold- netting the government a small fortune through tax- yet drugs, when used sensibly by dedicated athletes, that can take human performance to the next level are illegal and land people in prison.

[NB_ide]

(Original post by Old School)
Obvious medical student is obvious . May actually be able to have a sensible discussion here.

Use of anabolic steroids will not cause cardiomyopathy- anabolic steroids have two main actions- they increase the rate of protein synthesis and block cortisol in the muscle tissue. This serves to improve recovery and increase muscle growth if a training stimulus is applied.

Simple statement followed by two vague facts which don't support, or contradict, the original statement.

Anabolic steroids don't really cause much in the way of growth to cardiac muscle simply because cardiac muscle doesn't respond to training stimuli in the same way that skeletal muscle does- i.e. through hypertrophy.

Implying, incorrectly, that steroids won't affect muscles that are not being trained.

This is why sprinters, american football players, rugby players and other high performance athletes don't drop dead from heart conditions (like dilated cardiomyopathy).

Well some do. A higher proportion than untrained people? **** knows.

A bigger heart is less efficient- the body will not respond to what is essentially a massive dose of a naturally occurring hormone (testosterone) in a way that makes no biological sense.

What does this mean?

Personally I have no idea whether or to what extent what steroids may or may not induce smooth muscle to grow. It seems entirely credible that they might, or they might not. Has it ever been studied?

Just FYI- I don't use anabolics and I doubt I ever will- nor do I condone steroid use. At the end of the day they are illegal drugs and should be treated as such.

well in the UK roids are legal to import, possess and use personally. Literally completely legal. You can't sell them on once they're in the country, though.

[Old School]

(Original post by NB_ide)
That's not a scientific argument. Personally I have no idea whether or to what extent what steroids may or may not induce smooth muscle to grow. It seems entirely credible that they might, or they might not. Has it ever been studied?



well in the UK roids are legal to import, possess and use personally. Literally completely legal. You can't sell them on once they're in the country, though.

Heart muscle is not smooth muscle- it is a unique type called cardiac muscle.

It hasn't been studied, and it never will be. However, logic and anecdotal evidence would suggest that anabolics don't have the same effect on cardiac muscle as they do on skeletal muscle.

The best rebuttal to the 'steroids are lethal' brigade is to simply ask where are the bodies? I can't find any cases of athletes who were known to use steroids who have died of heart conditions where steroids can be indicated as the primary cause.

Long term abuse of steroids will likely **** with your biology. This is true of any drug. Responsible use of 'performance enhancing' quantities used by athletes (not pro bodybuilders) will likely not do you all that much harm.

Also, steroids are still a class C drug. They may be legal to possess by law but if employers ever got wind that an individual was using they would still find themselves in hot water. The military, police, fire service, NHS and most other public organisations have anti-steroid policies.

[NB_ide]

(Original post by Old School)
Heart muscle is not smooth muscle- it is a unique type called cardiac muscle.

fair enough

It hasn't been studied, and it never will be.

why not?

However, logic and anecdotal evidence would suggest that anabolics don't have the same effect on cardiac muscle as they do on skeletal muscle.

That's a different, much weaker/more general, proposition that you originally made.

Also, steroids are still a class C drug. They may be legal to possess by law but if employers ever got wind that an individual was using they would still find themselves in hot water. The military, police, fire service, NHS and most other public organisations have anti-steroid policies.

yes, indeed. Again a different point to that which you originally made ("they are illegal"). They're frowned upon, for sure. But "illegal" misrepresents the situation.

[Old School]

I am rubbish at teh interwebz so will reply to your questions in bold as opposed to multiquoting...

(Original post by NB_ide)
fair enough



why not?
Ethics committees for one. The medical world think steroids are bad. This opinion will never change because they are a stubborn bunch. This is why high-carb low-fat diets are still recommended by most doctors to reduce the risk of heart disease despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.


That's a different, much weaker/more general, proposition that you originally made.
Not really, just paraphrased. I still stand by my original point.


yes, indeed. Again a different point to that which you originally made ("they are illegal"). They're frowned upon, for sure. But "illegal" misrepresents the situation.
Agreed. I was wrong

[Old School]

Also:

(Original post by NB_ide)
Simple statement followed by two vague facts which don't support, or contradict, the original statement.



Implying, incorrectly, that steroids won't affect muscles that are not being trained.
They may well do, but my point was in direct reference to cardiomyopathies and the like- testosterone does not cause hypertrophy of the heart under normal circumstances so why would more of the same thing have a different effect?


Well some do. A higher proportion than untrained people? **** knows.
We probably never will do, but high intensity training and hypercalorific diets probably have a much more pronounced effect than anabolics.



What does this mean?

Personally I have no idea whether or to what extent what steroids may or may not induce smooth muscle to grow. It seems entirely credible that they might, or they might not. Has it ever been studied?



well in the UK roids are legal to import, possess and use personally. Literally completely legal. You can't sell them on once they're in the country, though.

[NB_ide]

That's a different, much weaker/more general, proposition that you originally made.

Not really, just paraphrased. I still stand by my original point.

Previously you made specific suggestions about what effect roids would or would not have on heart muscle. Then afterwards you merely claimed that the effects would be different to the effects on muscles tissue. The latter is much more agreeable.


btw you should try juicing, it's not nearly as noticeable as you might expect, but it's fun.

[NB_ide]

(Original post by Old School)
my point was in direct reference to cardiomyopathies and the like- testosterone does not cause hypertrophy of the heart under normal circumstances so why would more of the same thing have a different effect?

Why do you think that?

[sconter]

i sincerly doubt rob riches is natty, really like his physique, but doubt it is.

to respond to the OP, because i havent read the thread, to make it in ANY professional sport expect to take performance enhansing drugs.

i'd just like to point out that 'steriods' are no longer the most important thing in bbing. gh+insulin are.

[sconter]

(Original post by McHumpy92)
Ronnie has definitely upped the chances of a heart attack, but is hard to say. His liver and kidneys will be a mess also.

Put it this way with wrestlers and bodybuilders a lot die very young from heart conditions. With wrestlers the bodybuilders always claim it is the sleeping pills and coke etc...but if you look at rock stars they take all that crap and way more for way longer and are still around in their 70's etc...whereas bodybuilders and wrestlers generally die at the same sort of age from the same causes. So I am going to go with steroids for the main cause of death.

athlete's heart + cell tech.

lots of swimmer, runners and extremely fit people die of/have heart attacks, look at muaba(sp)

rock stars often die young too (curse of age 26)


orals and diuretics probably cause more harm than steroids themselves (the compounds that allow the steriod to be taken orally, rather than the actual steriod)

[McHumpy92]

Rock stars die of overdoses or accidents not heart attacks. My point still stands.

[commandant]

there's no money in bodybuilding/powerlifting/strongman anyway lol, unless you're at the very top of your game (olympia level) or do modelling etc.

expect to stand and pose in a seedy hotel room where some guy w@nks while he watches you pose

easy money mind

[Movember]

(Original post by commandant)
there's no money in bodybuilding/powerlifting/strongman anyway lol, unless you're at the very top of your game (olympia level) or do modelling etc.

expect to stand and pose in a seedy hotel room where some guy w@nks while he watches you pose

easy money mind

you say that there is no money in bodybuilding/powerlifting/strongman but you go on to say that you can stand in a seedy hotel room, pose your body and get easy money. i dont understand.

[commandant]

Well its not going to buy you sports cars !!!