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Ronaldo > Messi

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    More athletes weighing in on the debate. Lebron James, Kobe Bryant and Kevin Durant 3 of the best basketball players and also Steve Nash all saying Messi is the best in the world.
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    People are nuts if they think Ronaldo will win the Ballon d'Or this year. The only way that is happening is if Messi is injured and misses the first 6 months of the season.

    And even then, Ronaldo isn't even the most likely player at Madrid to win it atm. Most polls and opinions are leaning towards Casillas just behind Messi.
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    (Original post by CB91)
    People are nuts if they think Ronaldo will win the Ballon d'Or this year. The only way that is happening is if Messi is injured and misses the first 6 months of the season.

    And even then, Ronaldo isn't even the most likely player at Madrid to win it atm. Most polls and opinions are leaning towards Casillas just behind Messi.
    Hot Damn Messi even said Casillas deserves it now thats a real surprise
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    You don't score 70 goals in a season and not win the Ballon d'Or. I have a lot of love for Casillas but he doesn't deserve it ahead of Messi. Unless, as CB91 says, Messi gets injured and misses the next 5 months, which ain't happening.
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    (Original post by Flair91)
    .
    Still, you are judging it just from those few teams which compete in that competition,
    No I'm not, you muppet. Seriously, if you want to debate with me, please read my posts fully and understand them properly.
    which as i pointed out is dubious in itself considering there are another 17 teams to consider. You can't say "oh i'm judging the whole league!" then look at the performance of the few teams which compete in the Europa league.
    If you look again at that part of my post that you quoted, you can clearly see that I said "also". The term "also" implies that I am not dismissing the top 4 but I'm also considering the Uefa Cup teams in addition to the top 4. And if you bothered to read the rest of my post and understand it properly, I go on to further explain why the rest of the teams in la liga are strong (their great results against Barca and R.Madrid over the years and the fact that most of them play possession football with lots of skill and good tactics, which has proven to be superior on the international stage as Spain have won 3 international cups consecutively).
    And why cut it off at seven years? What is the point of that?
    I already told you this before. It's because we are considering the performance of each league in modern times. I chose 7 years so that we can include Liverpool CL triumph in 2005. And that is starting point from which a lot of pro-PL backers or fanboys refer to the PL dominance in the CL and use it as an argument to claim that PL > la liga.
    Why didn't you specify 7 years originally?
    Jesus Christ. Please ****ing read my posts properly or don't post to me again. I told you in my previous post that I forgot to specify the time scale in my original post.
    Telling me to use "common sense" isn't an argument. I could just tell you EPL > LA LIGA COMMON SENSE BRAH! and leave it at that.
    WTF is this piece of s**t? I wasn't using common sense as an argument to claim that la liga was better than the PL. I was saying you should have used your common sense to figure out that I couldn't be refering to both leagues' performances since the origin of the European Cup and the Uefa Cup because their performances from 40+ years ago have no relevance to the leagues in modern times. Which I happened to already tell you in my previous post. But it flew past your brain.
    Now this is funny. Your the one who judged the leagues on their UEFA cup performance
    I'm not judging the leagues on UEFA cup performance alone. I am judging them on CL performance (trophies won), on Uefa Cup performance (trophies won), the great results that lower teams in la liga have had over Barca and R.Madrid in recent years and on the style of football from both leagues (la liga play more possession football with skill and better offensive tactics than the PL).
    without specifying the time scale, i was just using your logic
    No, you weren't using my logic because I never specified the time scale in the first place. I didn't say I was comparing both leagues from the origin of the European Cup and the Uefa Cup. And you should have used your common sense to know that I couldn't have been referring to that long ago.
    The UEFA coefficients did no such thing. ...So I don't know when or where you heard "Man Utd were the number 1 team in Europe".
    Yes they did. OK, not recent as in the last month or so. But I meant in recent years (it was in 2011). Here's a link for that. Here's another one (look at the 10/11 column). Now Uefa claimed Man Utd were number 1 in Europe despite the fact that Barca had won 3 CLs in the last 5 years from 2011 and Man Utd had only won 1 CL in the last 5 years from 2011. Now who would anyone with a brain side with? The trophies won or a coefficient number? Wait, don't even think about pondering it. It's the trophies of course. Trophies > coefficients.
    Hillarious.
    Yeah, hilarious that I was right.
    I would not count the Europa League as a "major european competition", it's minor. It is like winnning the League cup of European football.
    No, it isn't the major European competition of club football overall (the CL is). But it is the major European competition for the lower teams of each league while the CL remains the major European comp for the top teams. Now remember that we are trying to determine the quality of each league overall. So not only are we determining the quality of the top teams ( with the aid of the CL) but we're also determining the quality of some of the lower teams. And the Europa League/Uefa Cup is the major european competition to determine that.

    La liga major european trophies: 7
    Premier league major european trophies: 3

    How do you explain if the PL was supposed to be much stronger than la liga?
    It's a rant because you start off discussing a point, nobody in this thread has even made.
    No, it's not a rant and I wasn't discussing a point that anybody had made ITT. It's actually my own argument that seems too complex for your brain to understand when it shouldn't be. The quality of R.Madrid and Barca over recent years (particularly the last 2/3 years) is well-established. And lower teams have gotten some good results against them. Now, remember that R.Madrid embarassed Spurs not so long ago. And Barca stomped Man Utd and Arsenal more than once in recent years. So for PL backers or fanboys to take the piss out of la liga's lower teams, describing them as "rubbish/very poor/very weak which is why R.Madrid and Barca are always winning the league" when the lower teams have actually gotten some good results against them over the years, is just extremely ignorant and incredibly stupid.

    Furthermore, possession football with lots of skill and good tactics has proven to be successful on the international stage in the last 4 years. England have struggled on the international stage for over a decade because they struggle to keep possession, they lack technique and skill and cannot use the ball intelligently. This describes the majority of PL teams (e.g. Stoke). However, most la liga teams are capable of keep possession, they have an abundance of skill and technical ability and can use the ball intelligently. If the England style of football (lack of technique and skill) has been proven to struggle on the international stage, then surely the PL (which is weak in technique and skill overall) is weaker overall in terms of quality than la liga which mostly plays possession and technical football?
    Also your post is littered with "EPL fan boys" which means your not even pretending to be objective.
    No, it's doesn't mean I'm pretending to be objective. And yes, I will call them fanboys because that's what they are. Any PL fan that chooses to be stupid and be completely ignorant of la liga's quality of football and their success in the Uefa Cup/Europa League in recent years and still has the audacity to call la liga's lower teams rubbish can not be anything other than a fanboy.
    Anyway I think it's wrong to say that the best league always wins big international events. After all Brazil, Argentina, France and Germany are all behind EPL and La Liga and they have lots of international victories.
    No, I'm not saying the country of the best league always wins internationally. But I'm talking about the style of football. Possession football with skills and good tactics is usually successful on the international stage, particularly in recent years (as Italy, Germany and Spain have demonstrated). England's lack of technique and skill and poor tactics have led to their failure on the international stage for a very long time. England's style of football is very similar to the majority of the PL's teams (e.g. Stoke). La liga's style of football is very similar to the likes of Italy and Spain (possession football, technique, skill etc). Therefore, la liga's quality of football must be superior to the PL's?

    Now, please...before you reply to me, read my ****ing post properly and understand what the **** I'm telling you.


    Jesus Christ of Nazareth :facepalm2::facepalm2::facepalm2:
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    (Original post by Cable)
    The quality of R.Madrid and Barca over recent years (particularly the last 2/3 years) is well-established. And lower teams have gotten some good results against them. Now, remember that R.Madrid embarassed Spurs not so long ago. And Barca stomped Man Utd and Arsenal more than once in recent years. So for PL backers or fanboys to take the piss out of la liga's lower teams, describing them as "rubbish/very poor/very weak which is why R.Madrid and Barca are always winning the league" when the lower teams have actually gotten some good results against them over the years, is just extremely ignorant and incredibly stupid.
    I feel Barca/RM usually try to play better in the UCL. Their league is too less of a competition for them, so at times, the players may not play to their full potential which gives other teams a chance. Though i don't mean that the EPL is better than la liga.

    I think one purpose of having a good league is to produce a good national team. England have clearly failed at the international stage, they are too weak for most of the teams due to their style, failure to keep possession, etc which i think gives la liga the edge.
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    Genius is the ability to do something that others can't. - you may use that as a reference when you are in another debate.

    Who gets the Ballon D'Or? Messi broke and set endless records and will continue to do so. Ronaldo trailed behind but won the La Liga title. Who is more deserving?

    Dare I say Messi. Their will always be controversy as to whether what your team has done is taken into account but based on the fact that this is an individual award for individual performances.. no one can argue Messi performed better than Ronaldo. In fact, Barcelona performed better than Real Madrid and this was by far their best year in terms of performance. However, performance is different from the result.

    I can outplay you for 90 minutes but yet end up on the losing side. Barcelona and Bayern Munich fans will agree with no hesitation.

    Messi bested Ronaldo in almost every department stat wise and ALSO has the results to go along with it. With that alone he should win his 4th consecutive award.

    This award will go to Messi.. trust me. If Blatter has learned anything from Platini then in 2014 you can expect Argentina and Portugal to be pitted against each other. It was no damn coincidence that Real Madrid and Barcelona played in the semi finals and it was no damn coincidence that they were Platini's choice for the final in Munich.
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    (Original post by Gundam101)
    In fact, Barcelona performed better than Real Madrid
    No they didn't.

    and this was by far their best year in terms of performance.
    Umm... 2008-09, when they won SIX trophies?

    no one can argue Messi performed better than Ronaldo.
    But that's what you're doing.

    If Blatter has learned anything from Platini then in 2014 you can expect Argentina and Portugal to be pitted against each other.
    No idea what you're trying to say here. What stage of 2014 World Cup will Argentina play Portugal? They didn't play each other in 2010? What did Platini do that he has to learn from?

    It was no damn coincidence that Real Madrid and Barcelona played in the semi finals
    Assuming you mean 2010-11 season, then yes, it was a coincidence.

    and it was no damn coincidence that they were Platini's choice for the final in Munich.
    Well let's be honest, it was most people's choice. It would've likely been a far better game than Chelsea vs Bayern.
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    (Original post by manchesterunited15)
    No they didn't.


    Umm... 2008-09, when they won SIX trophies?
    Did you not read the part where I differentiated performances and results? Comparing the stats and watching the games showed that they did best here. Even Guardiola agrees.
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    (Original post by Gundam101)
    Did you not read the part where I differentiated performances and results? Comparing the stats and watching the games showed that they did best here. Even Guardiola agrees.
    Everyone who watched La Liga would tell you Real were better over the season. Obviously Guardiola would agree, he was the Barca manager! And you're still adamant that Barca were better last season than in 08-09? Come on, they destroyed everyone on the way to the CL title, last season they were beaten by a quite poor Chelsea team.
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    (Original post by 15nico360)
    Only vid I need to show that Messi > Ronaldo


    Videos aren't going to tell you anything. For every solo Messi goal on youtube there is probably one by Ronaldo which is just as good.

    They are completely different players. The only thing they have in common is that they both score goals. Ronaldo is better at some things than Messi, and Messi is better in other departments. Would Messi play as well as he does outside of Barcelona? Who knows. Can Ronaldo do it for any team? Yes. That doesn't mean that Ronaldo is better though, Messi's style has been moulded by Barcelona and he fits them perfectly.

    No amount of statistics is going to prove who is the better player. It's completely down to personal preference. Do you prefer the agility and elusiveness of Messi, or the brash arrogance and physical prowess of Ronaldo?

    For full disclosure, I personally prefer Ronaldo. I don't know why, I just enjoy watching him play more than I do Messi. Doesn't mean I can't appreciate that Messi is one of the top players of his generation and perhaps of all time.
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    (Original post by fudgesundae)


    Videos aren't going to tell you anything. For every solo Messi goal on youtube there is probably one by Ronaldo which is just as good.

    They are completely different players. The only thing they have in common is that they both score goals. Ronaldo is better at some things than Messi, and Messi is better in other departments. Would Messi play as well as he does outside of Barcelona? Who knows. Can Ronaldo do it for any team? Yes. That doesn't mean that Ronaldo is better though, Messi's style has been moulded by Barcelona and he fits them perfectly.

    No amount of statistics is going to prove who is the better player. It's completely down to personal preference. Do you prefer the agility and elusiveness of Messi, or the brash arrogance and physical prowess of Ronaldo?

    For full disclosure, I personally prefer Ronaldo. I don't know why, I just enjoy watching him play more than I do Messi. Doesn't mean I can't appreciate that Messi is one of the top players of his generation and perhaps of all time.
    Nice shot but honestly it was truly awful keeping, the keeper was off his line by quite a bit and well i dont rate it as well as his Arsenal goal or Portsmouth. Messi is better then Ronaldo and well will win the Ballon D'or again this year. Though i want it to go to Casillas but what are the odds of that.
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    (Original post by fudgesundae)


    Videos aren't going to tell you anything. For every solo Messi goal on youtube there is probably one by Ronaldo which is just as good.

    They are completely different players. The only thing they have in common is that they both score goals. Ronaldo is better at some things than Messi, and Messi is better in other departments. Would Messi play as well as he does outside of Barcelona? Who knows. Can Ronaldo do it for any team? Yes. That doesn't mean that Ronaldo is better though, Messi's style has been moulded by Barcelona and he fits them perfectly.

    No amount of statistics is going to prove who is the better player. It's completely down to personal preference. Do you prefer the agility and elusiveness of Messi, or the brash arrogance and physical prowess of Ronaldo?

    For full disclosure, I personally prefer Ronaldo. I don't know why, I just enjoy watching him play more than I do Messi. Doesn't mean I can't appreciate that Messi is one of the top players of his generation and perhaps of all time.
    The best post, finally! People dont watch these two play week in week out yet they are drawing conclusions.
    I cant say kfc is better than mcdonalds when i have only tasted kfcs chicken and only mcdonalds chips, the best of both are equally as good!


    This was posted from The Student Room's Android App on my GT-I9100
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    (Original post by raheem94)
    I feel Barca/RM usually try to play better in the UCL. Their league is too less of a competition for them, so at times, the players may not play to their full potential which gives other teams a chance. Though i don't mean that the EPL is better than la liga.
    Sorry for the late reply.

    You're kinda right here. It gives some perspective on some of the good results that lower teams have had against Barca and RM. But same thing can be said for other teams from other leagues (e.g. Liverpool's best years under Benitez in the CL, although that wasn't because the league was less of a competition for them. They weren't that good lol. But they just chose to focus on the CL).

    I think one purpose of having a good league is to produce a good national team. England have clearly failed at the international stage, they are too weak for most of the teams due to their style, failure to keep possession, etc which i think gives la liga the edge.
    I agree. How great is it when you can have numerous national players playing a good quality of football in your top national league, meaning that you have plenty of good players to pick from for the national team (e.g. Spain)?

    The main reason that most PL teams have been able to perform at the level that they do (which is not that high tbh) in their league and in Europe, is down to the top talent they get from other countries. As much as I like Chelsea, where would they be without Zola, Gudjohnsen, Duff, Drogba, Carvalho, Cech, Makelele, Mata etc? Where would Man Utd be without Ronaldo, Nani, Valencia, Vidic, Van der Sar, Keane, Stam etc? That's not saying that the english players don't contribute at all. But I feel the foreign players contribute much more.

    I feel that the english players in the PL rely a tad too much on the technical ability of foreign players to perform to the standard they do. When Man Utd were stuck in a bit of a rut, who would usually bail them out? Ronaldo. When Chelsea needed a miracle at times, who would bail them out? Drogba. Of course Lampard has made his contributions to Chelsea's success. But it's thanks to the likes of Makelele behind him that Lampard has the freedom to join in attack and get some goals himself.

    This reliance on foreign players has led to english players neglecting their inferior technical ability. And when they have to play for the national team, their lack of technical ability gets horribly exposed.
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    (Original post by Cable)
    You're kinda right here. It gives some perspective on some of the good results that lower teams have had against Barca and RM. But same thing can be said for other teams from other leagues (e.g. Liverpool's best years under Benitez in the CL, although that wasn't because the league was less of a competition for them. They weren't that good lol. But they just chose to focus on the CL).
    Yeah that Liverpool side was no where near the level of the current Barca and RM sides. These 2 teams are capable to win games even if their players don't play to their full potential, but sometimes the other teams can take advantage.

    I agree. How great is it when you can have numerous national players playing a good quality of football in your top national league, meaning that you have plenty of good players to pick from for the national team (e.g. Spain)?
    England do have some very good players, but the problem is their consistency, many of their good players aren't consistent(e.g. Rooney) and also the whole team lacks the mentality of winning. In the last decade they had some very talented players like Beckham, Gerrard, Scholes, Owen but still they can't bring them any silverware.

    The main reason that most PL teams have been able to perform at the level that they do (which is not that high tbh) in their league and in Europe, is down to the top talent they get from other countries. As much as I like Chelsea, where would they be without Zola, Gudjohnsen, Duff, Drogba, Carvalho, Cech, Makelele, Mata etc? Where would Man Utd be without Ronaldo, Nani, Valencia, Vidic, Van der Sar, Keane, Stam etc? That's not saying that the english players don't contribute at all. But I feel the foreign players contribute much more.
    I can't see Chelsea winning this year UCL had Cech and Drogba not played so well.

    Glad you removed Saha from the list i don't feel he was one of their best player.

    Premier league teams tend to rely a lot more on foreign players than their own players, though in Spain it is different. Barca are producing so many great Spanish players.

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