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should you sleep with a drunk girl?

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No, I don't think you SHOULD sleep with someone who is drunk. Personally, just not my taste.

However, I do think it a bit strange that females can legally "lose" their responsibilities when it comes to being inebriated.

If I commit a crime while in a drunken state, I think I should bear the consequences of this, whether or not my judgement was impaired and despite my intentions.

Similarly, I think SOME responsibility should be borne by both parties if one/both is drunk.

There were several years where I went out frequently, but never lost consciousness/blacked out. I know my limits, and do my best to keep WITHIN my limits. If something happened to me that wouldn't have normally happened because of me being overly intoxicated, I'm pretty sure that it would be MY fault, and not that of the drink/someone else's.

I think this is why its ALWAYS GOOD to have a buddy system when you go out - people looking after you who you know well so that no-one can be taken advantage of in these kinds of situations

This is actually a good point. There was a thread on here before about rape and I said something like the victim is partly responsible in scenarios like the advert, which didn't go down well.

Reply 21

Anonymous #3

maybe the government need to give some clear guidelines. if a girl is really drunk and doesnt say no or yes, then he shouldnt have sex with her, shes probably too drunk to give any answer. at end of the day , girls dont rape guys, so guys should take some responsbility. you shouldnt say its the girls fault for getting too pissed, at the end of the day, both males and females want to let their hair down once in a while, and after a few drinks it can be hard to stop yourself from drinking more

Reply 22

hitherto

To the girl whos was taken home by a boy in your friendship group - I'm pretty sure you were raped. And on to the main topic, it is completely reprehensible if you do something like this, firstly it would be wrong to do that and secondly it wouldnt be any fun, wouldnt that be like having sex with a corpse, the thought of that disgusts me.

Reply 23

hennessybubbles

definitely not if shes so far gone she doesn't know what she's doing- that would make you a dick...

and otherwise- drunken sex is really ****- get a fbuddy if you want sex

(edited 12 years ago)

Reply 24

Chumbaniya

This sort of question is why I have absolutely no interest in drunken hookups. Drunk sex with someone I'm already with - fine. It'll probably be a pretty incompetent affair but it's usually without controversy. But sex between very drunk individuals who only met that evening is just such a minefield that I'd rather avoid it. Besides, if I'm going to have sex with someone new, I'd really quite like to be fully conscious for the experience.

Reply 25

Anonymous #4

God it is tempting. When the girl of your dreams starts coming on to you at a party, even though she's so damn plastered that she's barely conscious, that is hard to resist and bloody excruciating when you know it would never happen in "real life", but don't want to take advantage of her.

That happened to me once. I talked to her for a bit, and then she fell asleep on my lap. I thought, to hell with it, she's leaving tomorrow - so I carried her upstairs and bunged her on one of the beds, and I slept at the foot. So you could say I "slept" with her, yes.

Reply 26

dj1015

Original post by Schmokie Dragon

So trying to inform the population about the law is a 'sad victory for feminism'? Wow.

Some people do need to be told the law when it comes to sexual crimes. Some people don't realise or think it is unimportant that having sex with someone who doesn't give consent is rape. We've seen enough of that on this forum alone. Rape and sexual assault are very prevalent in our society.

Completely out of touch with the real issue and you clearly have no regard for anything else other than female empowerment.

Reply 27

username927016

Nah it just doesn't feel the same lol. I do think the laws need some consistency though as say someone committed a crime whilst drunk then the excuse "they weren't in the right state to make their own decisions" wouldn't exactly relieve them of the blame :wink:

Reply 28

Schmokie Dragon

Original post by Davethedavedave

Completely out of touch with the real issue and you clearly have no regard for anything else other than female empowerment.

Sorry, what?

What is the 'real issue'? What am I ignoring in my quest for 'female empowerment'? What do you think I want, what do you think I seek?

All I said was that this was a campaign that raises awareness of a prevalent social problem and seeks to clarify the law for those who either don't know it or haven't considered the legality of their own actions. I didn't bring gender into this.

Do you deny that rape and sexual assault happen?
Do you think that rape and sexual assault are not problems?
Do you think that rape and sexual assault are good things?
Do you think consent is unimportant?
Do you think rape and sexual assault are meaningless concepts?

Reply 29

ceris

Original post by Schmokie Dragon

The point is that if someone's judgement is impaired by alcohol, they are not considered responsible and aware enough to give consent. If someone has sex with someone they know to be intoxicated, they are taking the risk that whatever garbled 'yes' they get from their companion is not a genuine, free and informed agreement. Rape doesn't have to be an act of malice - it can happen as a result of over enthusiasm or poor judgement. However, lack of 'evil intention' doesn't suddenly make invalid 'consent' from their partner valid. This is why education is important. We need to help people understand how to protect themselves and that goes both ways.

There may be cases where the consent was valid at the time and someone cries 'rape' to avoid shame or (as you say) attempt to absolve themselves of responsibility. Any time where someone is wrongly accused is sad, especially when the accuser knows that the accused is innocent. However, the presence of such possibilities shouldn't lead us to be cynical about the majority of cases. People do get raped while drunk, and sometimes they've even agreed to sex but their consent is invalidated by their inability to properly understand what is happening and make an informed and free choice.

You can't expect men to carry breathalysers around with them if they are looking to get laid. IMO, if a woman chose to go out and get smashed (out of her own choice obviously, getting her drink spiked is a completely different scenario), in her drunken haze took some dude home, and woke up the next day to a world of (self-inflicted) embarrassment/shame, crying "rape" is just pathetic.

It annoys me to think about how many innocent men have probably had their lives ruined because some dumb dipsomaniac broad couldn't handle the responsibility of a one night stand.

Reply 30

Clez

Original post by ceris

it annoys me that there are men facing rape charges after sleeping with girls who got too drunk on a night out, and decided to absolve all responsibility by crying rape...

this... i think if someones passed out its a bit different to them merely being drunk - if you go on a night out and go home with someone to their bedroom, thats implying you're there for sex, you're hardly going back for a nice chat and a cup of cocoa are you?

Reply 31

Teenage Pirate

Original post by Schmokie Dragon

I don't know the legal position of those who have sex while both/all parties are not considered capable of consent. It's a very grey area. If we're not considered capable of making informed and free choices while drunk, is our drunken state considered a mitigating circumstance if we commit a crime? Probably not. I'm not a legal professional.

You clearly aren't based on your previous posts about rape, but I suspect you're correct here in arguing that it is a bit vague.

Sexual Offenders Act 2003
(1)A person (A) commits an offence if—
(a)he intentionally penetrates the vagina, anus or mouth of another person (B) with his penis,
(b)B does not consent to the penetration, and
(c)A does not reasonably believe that B consents.

Kind of hard to prove C if you're as drunk as her.

(edited 12 years ago)

Reply 32

Teenage Pirate

Original post by ceris

Don't worry about her, I've had a similar argument where she argued that a man being in a bad mood because his girlfriend wouldn't have sex with her (which led to her having consensual sex with him) was rape.

Just look at the Sexual Offenders act. Part of the burden of proof for rape and sexual assault involves the rapist believing that the raped didn't consent. If she seemed to be in control and there is any evidence to demonstrate that, that should be enough to satisfy that criterion. Like I said, Schmokie Dragon has some extreme views on rape and probably believes that if a few drinks make a girl a little more keen she's lost all ability to consent.

Reply 33

redferry

Original post by Manchester14

If you are both too drunk, who raped who?

If a guy is that drunk he isnt going to get it up surely?!

Reply 34

redferry

Original post by Clez

But, you should be free to withdraw consent at any point. I know Ive taken guys back, had a couple of pints of water (as I always do after a night out) and thought wtf am I doing before

Reply 35

MrJon

yeah i'd merk that ting

Reply 36

Nice Marmite

If a drunk girl gives me her bracelet have I robbed her? Will I got prison?

Reply 37

Studentus-anonymous

Original post by Schmokie Dragon

It has to be a free, informed choice without pressure.

The human condition is balancing pressures from everywhere. Do you buy those shoes because of how they'll look? Do you turn that guy down because you worry about what friends will think of him? Do you take a job because your mum/relative got you it?

Plus the law doesn't excuse responsibility for other crimes just because the perpetrator is inebriated.

If what you said was a legally solid definition than thousands of young men (and women?) a week would be doing hard time for 'rape'.

Trying to sleep with someone who is basically KO'ed is questionable and definitely a matter for the courts but you can't outlaw sleeping with someone drunk, you'd criminalise half the country in a swipe.

I've been drunk, had drunken sex with my drunk girlfriend, it was fun. Her eyes were rolling in the back of her head but not because of the booze.

If that was rape it was the most consensual rape ever.

Original post by dgeorge

I think this is why its ALWAYS GOOD to have a buddy system when you go out - people looking after you who you know well so that no-one can be taken advantage of in these kinds of situations

Common sense right here, know your limits and always go out with people you know and trust.

(edited 12 years ago)

Reply 38

Stevo112

The law is pretty well established to protect women from genuine rape attempts, BUT i do wonder what would happen were I to meet a girl I liked on a night in town. I'm not some rapist, and if I wanted some I feel relatively confident in getting some consentually whilst sober. That said, there is little stopping some girl from crying rape after initially consenting whilst drunk and then crying rape in the morning. Who would the police initially side with? I'd probably lose my profession even over false accusations!! Why should the burden be on the bloke to prove that the girl is too drunk to consent? It should be the responsibilty of the girl to prove that she is too drunk NOT to consent. Does the government want me to breathalyze every girl I meet on a night out? Y'know, some women in this country scare me. And I hate these adverts on television. The one with the guy having sex with the girl in a drunken haze. I feel sorry for that guy because unless he was very forceful he has probably found his way to her flat consentually and he is probably just as drunk as her; they are both as bad as each other imo. Why the **** doesn't the girl stop drinking? At least then she can tell the guy to go away in a more coherent manner... and also then she would probably be hanging round more confident and interesting blokes whom she could have some hot, sober, consentual sex with every single night! Like I said, all this rape stuff going around is very murky.

Such is this country though. Girls don't take any responsibility for their actions and palm it off onto the guys. If you don't want to get "raped" then you are more likely to succeed if you control your alcohol consumption and stop binging. I'm not playing down any legitimate rape situations though, but it is all a grey area and girls should take some responsibility to avoid the more common rape situations such as what is shown on the adverts

(edited 12 years ago)

Reply 39

Clez

Original post by redferry

But, you should be free to withdraw consent at any point. I know Ive taken guys back, had a couple of pints of water (as I always do after a night out) and thought wtf am I doing before

well obviously it shouldnt be physically be forced, but you do have a slight right to follow through on the promise since the guy youve come onto all night has got you drinks, paid for your taxi, and ended up on the wrong side of town... its like buying a new TV then finding the box is empty

- i cant get one night stands anyway, Id find them majorly embarrassing - i have to connect with people with sex, not just for me, and plus when iv had a drink i dont want sex, i want undisturbed sleep