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Parents earn enough to not qualify for larger loan - but wont help out

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Why is it that under the present system, a person from a relatively poor BACKGROUND ends up with an enormous student debt to pay back (not the very poorest who get the benefit of the tiny number of bursaries available), while someone from a rich BACKGROUND has no debt at all?

And why is it that a person becomes an adult when they are 18 for everything EXCEPT finance, because they are still tethered to their parents' finances until the age of 25, so they are dependent on their good will?

Bring back maintenance grants, make them non means-tested and start a compulsory graduate tax to fund it - this is ridiculous.
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by Jessikat
I think you can apply for Student Finance WITHOUT declaring how much your parents earn, and just get the standard loan. Not sure.


Yep, if you do that you receive the minimum loan, same as if your parents were minted. Otherwise it'd make no sense for students with a household income over a certain amount to declare at all.


Original post by No Future
Dunno, but somehow they have found extra hundreds of millions to fund the increase in tuition fee loans (which is a much bigger sum than the one I propose) around £6k for EVERY student, whereas to give enough to live on would only require an extra couple of k for SOME students. I'm pretty sure the funds exist in some form.


The increase in tuition fee loans is balanced out by the cutting of direct funding to unis. Also the problem with what your proposing is that really, it's only a minority of students whose parents earn a lot but won't support them, and the expense in increasing loans across the board plus the fact that it'd leave the vast majority of middle class/rich students much better off in comparison to the poorest students (as they'd be getting an increased loan plus money from their parents) means it can't really be justified.

I get that the system isn't ideal and there should perhaps be other ways to define yourself as independent, but your suggestion isn't the answer.
Original post by Shani
Coz everyone's totally honest and would declare if they got given money? It would be nigh on impossible to make sure a student didn't have another bank account, or a parents bank card, or were being given cash.


Ignore me, I have no idea why I was thinking that would be viable.
Original post by CurtainrailMan
Why is it that under the present system, a person from a poor BACKGROUND ends up with an enormous student debt to pay back, while someone from a rich BACKGROUND has no debt at all?

And why is it that a person becomes an adult when they are 18 for everything EXCEPT finance, because they are still tethered to their parents' finances until the age of 25, so they are dependent on their good will?

Bring back maintenance grants, make them non means-tested and start a compulsory graduate tax to fund it - this is ridiculous.


excuse me? those from poorer backgrounds are offered grants and fee reductions to reduce the ammount of debt they have whilst those from richer backgrounds end up with lots of debt unless their parents can afford to fund everything. and at the end of the day except in rare cases with rich parents having contacts graduates are on a level footing when it comes to finding a job so background is irrelevant.

and the student loan is a bit like a tax as it comes out of your wages
Original post by jelly1000
excuse me? those from poorer backgrounds are offered grants and fee reductions to reduce the ammount of debt they have whilst those from richer backgrounds end up with lots of debt unless their parents can afford to fund everything.


Those from poorer backgrounds tend to have bigger loans, therefore, more debt. In my first year, my debt was around £10k (I was at a brick uni before OU) and my hallmates debt was probably around £7k or £8k for that year.
Reply 85
Original post by OU Student
Those from poorer backgrounds tend to have bigger loans, therefore, more debt. In my first year, my debt was around £10k (I was at a brick uni before OU) and my hallmates debt was probably around £7k or £8k for that year.


Really? How? The Student Finance loan component is fixed for everyone, and then the means tested things are non-repayable... unless you mean you went into your overdraft, or something?
From your description of your course it sounds like your going to do a healthcare cousre, so you wouldn't be elgibile for the extra loan anyway. You get a non means tested reduced rate student laon of around 2k, plus an NHS bursary of 1k non means tested. Then there is a means tested NHS bursary which you maybe eligible for some of depending on thesrholds as this couldnt be different from student finance thresholds.
Original post by jeh_jeh
Really? How? The Student Finance loan component is fixed for everyone, and then the means tested things are non-repayable... unless you mean you went into your overdraft, or something?


The loan for London is far higher.
Original post by jeh_jeh
O, rly? For 2012/2013, according to the Directgov website, non-London maintenance loan is £5500 and non-repayable money of up to £3250. That's over £8k. If you factor in that a lot of universities also have their own generous bursary schemes for people with parental income under a certain threshold, you could easily be looking at £10k/year, which is more than enough to live off. To be honest, £8,000 is still a pretty generous figure.


The Loan you get for under 25k is 3.8k and the grant is about 3.2k for the 12/13. The more grant you get the less loan you get and vice versa. Which is about 7k. If you got a university with an average bursary of say 1k you get 8k total for the year. It is doable, but you do have to live on a pittance. 5k rent and bills gives 3k for food, travel, clothes, textbooks, stationary, socialising.

And you miss out on alot more at university, with 8k you cannot afford the Ski trips or field trips or socials or balls. Whilst these arn't a core part of University they still contribute to the experience of it all.
Reply 89
Original post by OU Student
Those from poorer backgrounds tend to have bigger loans, therefore, more debt. In my first year, my debt was around £10k (I was at a brick uni before OU) and my hallmates debt was probably around £7k or £8k for that year.


Ridiculous. Those from poorer backgrounds get grants that they do not have to pay back, and smaller loans. Also get all sorts of free bursaries from the university itself.
I think people from poorer backgrounds should be helped (if they are academically worthy) but the system is disgustingly unfair on the middle classes. My parents earn just over the maximum threshold for getting any free money, but they can't afford to give me any help, my dad will probably have to work til he is about 70 before he can afford to retire. It is not a case of them being mean. I also went to a state school, so by the way people are talking on this thread I must be a poor disadvantaged urchin who needs financial help. Well yes I agree, give it to me please! Seriously though, it is really galling to see a load of people on my course who don't need the help getting it, just because they satisfy stupid loopholes. I think I'll just have a sham marriage.
Original post by elinorus
Ridiculous. Those from poorer backgrounds get grants that they do not have to pay back, and smaller loans. Also get all sorts of free bursaries from the university itself.
I think people from poorer backgrounds should be helped (if they are academically worthy) but the system is disgustingly unfair on the middle classes. My parents earn just over the maximum threshold for getting any free money, but they can't afford to give me any help, my dad will probably have to work til he is about 70 before he can afford to retire. It is not a case of them being mean. I also went to a state school, so by the way people are talking on this thread I must be a poor disadvantaged urchin who needs financial help. Well yes I agree, give it to me please! Seriously though, it is really galling to see a load of people on my course who don't need the help getting it, just because they satisfy stupid loopholes. I think I'll just have a sham marriage.


Haha, have considered it!

So has a friend of mine.
Original post by elinorus
Ridiculous. Those from poorer backgrounds get grants that they do not have to pay back, and smaller loans. Also get all sorts of free bursaries from the university itself.


I refer you to my previous post where I said I left with more debt than those whose household income was higher than mine.

my dad will probably have to work til he is about 70 before he can afford to retire.


As will most people.
Reply 92
Do they take outgoings into account? On paper, my parents look like they earn a lot, but the actual amount they get to spend is tiny...I mean just because they look like they earn a lot doesn't mean that they can afford to help me though university. I've been working since I was 13 years old trying to build up money for uni, because even then I knew it was going to be expensive, but now, sitting down looking at the figures, every year of my 6 year degree I'm expected to pay £3500 at least in addition to the maintenance loan when neither my parents nor I have that kind of money!
Reply 93
Original post by No Future
Haha, have considered it!

So has a friend of mine.


Yes it seems a good option, just marry a mate or partner that you trust not to make things difficult later on, only costs £200 or so if that. I think I will. It's £12,000 in bursaries if I do it. Feel like I'd be a fool not to.
Original post by jelly1000
excuse me? those from poorer backgrounds are offered grants and fee reductions to reduce the amount of debt they have


Yes, my mistake, I forgot about the (very small) number of grants available to the very poor, and I live in Scotland so obviously don't know anything about tuition fee reductions :colondollar: I was talking solely about maintenance loans. The people with richer parents still end up with less debt, or in the case of the Thread starter, no money!

Original post by jelly1000
at the end of the day except in rare cases with rich parents having contacts graduates are on a level footing when it comes to finding a job so background is irrelevant.


I know that they get the same job, but the one from the poorER background still effectively get paid less because they have this extra bill to pay.

Original post by jelly1000
and the student loan is a bit like a tax as it comes out of your wages


Why is that important? That just cuts down on paperwork at your end.
Reply 95
Original post by OU Student
I refer you to my previous post where I said I left with more debt than those whose household income was higher than mine.

As will most people.


Well that was weird, don't know how you managed that. Only people who are very well off can pay their kids entire uni costs outright. Middle class kids whose parents can't pay end up with more debt than those from a poorer background whose parents can't pay.


Not from my dad's peer group actually, most of them are already retired. And that was only to explain why he can't afford to help me out.
Reply 96
Original post by Larry31
Do they take outgoings into account? On paper, my parents look like they earn a lot, but the actual amount they get to spend is tiny...I mean just because they look like they earn a lot doesn't mean that they can afford to help me though university. I've been working since I was 13 years old trying to build up money for uni, because even then I knew it was going to be expensive, but now, sitting down looking at the figures, every year of my 6 year degree I'm expected to pay £3500 at least in addition to the maintenance loan when neither my parents nor I have that kind of money!


No not really. I know what you are saying my parents aren't cash rich, but their income means I don't qualify for any help other than the basics. It's even more annoying because I'm 24 and still apparently dependent on them. You say you've worked for years? By any chance have you earned £7500 per year for three years prior to your degree? Doesn't have to be consecutive years. If you have you can be classed as independent. The holy grail of student finance!
Original post by elinorus
Only people who are very well off can pay their kids entire uni costs outright.


But you don't have to pay it all outright for the child to have a lower debt.
A lot of people I know don't need to whole loan. Their parents pay an awful lot of their costs (either all or part of the rent, food etc). As such, most of the loan has been stuck in a high interest savings account. They will MAKE money on it.
Reply 98
Original post by WelshBluebird
But you don't have to pay it all outright for the child to have a lower debt.
A lot of people I know don't need to whole loan. Their parents pay an awful lot of their costs (either all or part of the rent, food etc). As such, most of the loan has been stuck in a high interest savings account. They will MAKE money on it.


Oh here we go, HERE WE GO. Attacking the rich again. Middle class people (like the OP) are hurt much more than poor people when it comes to university financing, as they don't have the luxury of living on handouts from the state or their parents. The squeezed middle have it much harder than the poor.
Reply 99
Original post by roast cat
I'm sure that this topic has been discussed many times before, but I used the search function and searched google for quite a while and couldn't find relevant information. I couldn't work out any good specific keywords to use or anything. Sorry if this is a common question that everyone is bored of answering!

As I say in the title, my parents earn enough for me to only qualify for the smallest maintenance loan. However, they are refusing to pay any money towards me going to university.

Currently I have a job and am working a lot of hours to save up money for living so my maintenance loan can go on my accommodation. The course that I am (hopefully) going to be taking also extends in to the summer and I will have only a few weeks of time off the entire year. It also involves shifts at a hospital which cycle, meaning what free time I do have will change in a manner that makes getting a regular job very difficult.

I don't think that I will be able to save enough money to fund all of my years at university. Saving enough for the first year will not be a problem, but even for the second year it may be difficult. Is there any way to get a larger student loan despite my parents' high earnings? Perhaps declaring independence some how?

Other possibilities I have considered are:

Begging the bank for a loan. I don't want to do this particularly because of interest.

Working for a call centre from home while at university. I may have to do this as it seem like the only job with flexible hours that I can work. Ideally I will not have to resort to this as my course will be very time consuming, but I recognise that it may be my only option.

Not go to university. Obviously this is the option I am trying to avoid.

Thanks in advance to anyone who can help here.


Poison them, but only to the extent that they can be legally declared as your dependants. Make it look like an accident - feed them a pot noodle or something, that usually works.

Otherwise, know it's a cliche...... get a job? :s-smilie:

Depending on what degree you are intending to do, taking out a bank loan could be a TERRIBLE idea. If you must, delay for a year, work + save up, then try next time. You don't want to graduate into a mountain of debt - just the typical smothering.

Good luck...

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