Parents earn enough to not qualify for larger loan - but wont help out

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While it is your parent's own money IMO they are extremely selfish for not paying. I don't know the exact circumstances (maybe they really can't afford it) so I'm not gonna immediately scream "move out, get a job, and disown their useless asses"

Reply 141

jeh_jeh

Original post by marshymarsh

If your family income is above 60k, you can still get a 3k maintenance loan. If a family on 60k cannot spare 3-4k for their offspring per year I would suggest that they are planning their family finances poorly.

That's all well and good if you're an only child on a three year course, which I am not.

Reply 142

jeh_jeh

Original post by marshymarsh

I was inflating the figure by going to a couple of University pages (Birmingham and Southampton) and averaging all the halls. The cheapest at Brum are about 4k, and you are not guaranteed to get in, foolish of me I know but my main gripe with Universities is offering the expensive halls and splitting people of different backgrounds based on Income.

Birmingham has the most (I think? It did at one point) expensive campus outside of London, which probably skews your average a bit!

Reply 143

Shani

Original post by Fraga

For a loan???

I think you might be getting mixed up with the grant maybe? But yeah he is able to get the full loan amount (over £3000). It just means that the forms are much quicker for him to fill in as well cos he can just skip the parents and partners section.

No, I'm not getting mixed up at all.

The minimum amount of loan is the same as the non-income assessed loan.

If your friend is not income assessed then he is getting the minimum loan.

This is 65% of the maximum loan available.

Reply 144

Lintu93

Imo if your parents earn over the threshold but refuse to pay then it's incredibly selfish of them. OP, give 'em a good slap. If they earn over the threshold but can't afford to pay then I'd suspect that maybe they've had their priorities wrong. Without sounding harsh and without "hating on the rich", just because you can afford a big house and that holiday to Hawaii doesn't mean that you need to... Does no-one keep nice reserves of cash in the bank for a rainy day?? :s-smilie:

Get a job? I see nothing wrong with getting a job during the term time or over the summer. I'm working part-time (8-12 hours per week) while studying for a 4-year course, worked part-time all through sixth-form (although I did spend almost all of that money on food and driving lessons, oops) and am renting a cheap flat over summer with a few friends who are also planning on working full-time over the summer too.

Reply 145

catoswyn

Original post by roast cat

Thanks for the prompt response! I guess I will have to contact Student Finance, as I probably should have before making this thread

I feel like there must be a way through this, though. It doesn't make sense for the government to assume your parents are willing to pay. I feel privileged that my parents have money and am thankful for that, but purely in the context of student loans isn't this policy a bit discriminatory? For my bank account, my parents refusing to pay is effectively the same as my parents being unable to pay. Why the discrepancy?

Its tough and I agree that for people in your situation its unfair. However the governments point of view is that they have to distribute the resources somehow and they've chosen to think that unless you are estranged from your parents they should help you if they have the means. One of the difficulties of course is that the way they calculate what your parents earn does not take into account their outgoings so, for instance, your parents may not have much money left over after their mortgage, travel to work costs etc. They do allow them to deduct money for siblings and pensions from the wages used to calculate what is left over.

The government's point of view on this is that a family can prioritise whether to keep their house or downsize to pay for education for their children or move to cheaper rented accomodation etc. Not saying I agree with any of this, especially as the system is new and people haven't had much time to plan. Just describing their reasoning.

None of this is much help to you of course. How much will you be short by? Your parents will loose the £17-20 a week they currently receive towards your care from the government via child benefit. However it costs them more than that to keep you right now. Could you ask if they could continue contributing the amount they currently spend on your food etc over and above family allowance to help you out? At this stage every little helps so even if its £10-20 a week towards your food.. that's £500-£1000 less you need to find. Would they be willing to take out a bank loan on your behalf to cover costs if they don't have enough excess income, especially while settling in at university and finding part time work?

People have posted about this subject extensively before and there are lots of people in your situation. Usually it boils down to working while studying, scholarships, local educational trusts, persuading the parents to help somehow, studying from home, studying part time, taking time out to become an 'independant' student or declaring estrangement from parents (which is a fairly drastic option and needs lots of proof) etc etc.

I can only imagine how frustrating and horrible this all feels. Personally I think they need to adapt the way they work out disposable income. Write to your MP to highlight the issue.

Good luck

:smile:

(edited 12 years ago)

Reply 146

catoswyn

Original post by jeh_jeh

That's all well and good if you're an only child on a three year course, which I am not.

There is an allowance against income of approximately £1100 for each dependant sibling in the family. Also any monies paid into pensions aren't counted. Check what you may be able to get on the student finance page, taking this into account.

:smile:

Reply 147

marshymarsh

Original post by jeh_jeh

That's all well and good if you're an only child on a three year course, which I am not.

If those parents were able to feed/keep warm their offspring when they were 18 (ie buy food for them, pay a higher electricity/gas bill) then why does that change once they move away to University?

Say Accommodation is 3k, that is matched by the 3k loan.
So the parents have to pay for food/bills, which they payed for before the offspring moved away.

The only difference would be the parents attitude that their offspring is now an adult and should be independent. This is not the states problem, the states problem is encouraging social mobility, not ensuring that you go to University.

(edited 12 years ago)

Reply 148

Jenx301

Reading some of these replies annoy me. I live with my mum who earns less than £21k, im not sure exactly how much but quite a bit less... and we only have enough money for food + bills to keep us going each day. We can't afford a car etc. The whole point is that the students with poorer parents literally cannot afford to give money. If I didnt get extra money through student finance I would not be able to afford uni.

Original post by catoswyn

The government's point of view on this is that a family can prioritise whether to keep their house or downsize to pay for education for their children or move to cheaper rented accomodation etc. Not saying I agree with any of this, especially as the system is new and people haven't had much time to plan. Just describing their reasoning

I partly agree with the government on this. If your family obviously earns quite a bit more than mine then they SHOULD be contributing and prioritizing. I am sure you could afford to down size on some things. Like I said, we dont have a car, and we live in a small simple house to keep things as cheap as they could be. Even after this my mum could never afford to give me any money for uni, however much she wanted.

Original post by CurtainrailMan

I don't care whether that person with more debt is from the worst council estate in the country or is the Duke of Cornwall's stepson. After the age of 18, the financial support we receive from the government and the tax we have to pay shouldn't depend on the incomes of our parents, it should depend on our own PERSONAL circumstances. Therefore, because every graduate has the same job prospects and so the same income (Duke of Cornwall's contacts aside) we should all pay the same student loan repayments, including the people from both ends of the social scale and in the middle - a concept also known as a Graduate Tax!

I have checked my figures for SAAS (the Scottish student finance body). It seems that the largest amount of debt taken on per year is £4,180 with household income at £35,000. Someone with household income of £62,000 has a loan per year of £915. This means that, remembering that their backgrounds are irrelevant after they graduate (so it doesn't matter that neither household is totally impoverished), one person has more debt than another WHICH IS NOT FAIR! END OF STORY.

But the whole point is that peoples parents should and would (mostly) be contributing, so your personal circumstances Im sure would be better than mine because regardless of whether you think we should be financiallhy independent from them. The largest amount of debt in a year is 4k approx.?! Jeez the Scottish are lucky then because my rent for a year will be larger than that. So ontop of that I will have to pay food costs, book costs, travel costs, and whatever other basic living costs there are… People whos parents earn more are more likely to be able to take out a smaller loan and therefore will have less to pay back? As well as possible parental help paying it back? Whereas poorer students such as myself have to take out more money and fund everything by themselves as well as my mum having no hope of helping pay it back. but you’re right. Poor you. It must be so hard.

Original post by elinorus

Ridiculous. Those from poorer backgrounds get grants that they do not have to pay back, and smaller loans. Also get all sorts of free bursaries from the university itself.
I think people from poorer backgrounds should be helped (if they are academically worthy) but the system is disgustingly unfair on the middle classes. My parents earn just over the maximum threshold for getting any free money, but they can't afford to give me any help, my dad will probably have to work til he is about 70 before he can afford to retire. It is not a case of them being mean. I also went to a state school.

Seriously?! If you’re parents earn that much and still cant afford to give you any of it then that is ridiculous. It isn’t the governments fault they have chosen to spend it rather than save some for your university costs is it? Also, going to a state school doesn’t mean you have no money.

I know some peoples parents refuse to pay, but that is hardly the same as not being able to pay which is why people from poorer families get more money. People throwing a tantrum saying "its not fair"... maybe its not a great system but come on, can you honestly say that your family couldnt downgrade at all?

Neg me all you want, I feel like some people just want everything.

Reply 149

jeh_jeh

Original post by marshymarsh

How does having more children at home make your electricity bill higher? The same rooms still have to be heated (especially if siblings share bedrooms - you can't just turn the heating off because there's only one in there instead of two). And unless you've only got one or two children in the first place, when one moves away, it's not like the shopping bill goes down by £30/week, or however much - the economies of scale don't really work like that.

Reply 150

Fraga

Original post by Shani

I see. It is me who is getting mixed up :rofl:

EDIT: Also, (I'm applying for student finance for september 2012) ...does this mean I would get a higher loan than over £3,000? I'm also entitled to the full grant cos my mum earns under 15k a year does it effect how much loan you get?

Because I thought that over 3k was more than enough so there is no point me owing more to the government if I have the grant as well :confused:

Makes no sense that people from high income families can't get the full loan because surely they will more than likely be in a position to pay it back :/

(edited 12 years ago)

Reply 151

jeh_jeh

Original post by Fraga

I see. It is me who is getting mixed up :rofl:

Makes no sense that people from high income families can't get the full loan because surely they will more than likely be in a position to pay it back :/

Everyone gets a £3k LOAN. If your mum earns under £15k, though, you'll also be eligible for a GRANT (that's non-repayable), so you won't be in any more debt!

Reply 152

Otkem

Original post by WelshBluebird

1 - That statement was not in reply to you. It was to Otkem.
2 - The vast majority of middle class parents DO contribute, quite a lot. It is only the minority that unfortunately fall between the gaps.

As above. The number of middle class parents who literally cannot afford to contribute is very small. Even if it means selling one of their two cars or whatever. Now, the parents not WANTING to contribute is a totally separate issue and is usually what people actually mean.

Think of it like this. For middle class parents, if their kid is in financial trouble and needs money to pay their rent for the month, or face getting kicked out, then they will generally be able to help out. For poorer parents that is not the case. It is not a case of not wanting to, it is a case of literally not being able to.

If the poor people's parents could be arsed to get a good job, they wouldn't need my tax pounds to pay for their education. See we can all make sweeping generalisations can't we. Middle class parents struggle more than working class parents; that is the truth.

Reply 153

Tiger Rag

Original post by Otkem

It's not as easy you make out. Not everyone can be bankers or doctors earning £100k+ a year. We do have to have the shop assistants, factory workers, care workers, etc.

Reply 154

No Future

Original post by OU Student

It's not as easy you make out. Not everyone can be bankers or doctors earning £100k+ a year. We do have to have the shop assistants, factory workers, care workers, etc.

Hmm, most doctors earn considerably less than £100k

Reply 155

Tiger Rag

Original post by No Future

Hmm, most doctors earn considerably less than £100k

They are still on a much higher income than most though.

Reply 156

Shani

Original post by Otkem

In that case, I assume you don't need to use a supermarket, or ever use any shops, or want to pay even higher taxes to pay more to the NHS who pays way less than the UK average wage to their health care assistants and cleaners etc?

Swings and roundabouts. Civilisation wouldn't work without lower paid, unqualified jobs.

Reply 157

elinorus

Original post by Jenx301

I really wish people would stop implying that my parents have 'decided' not to help me due to their own selfish priorities. You do not know the details of my situation and it is insulting that you are talking about my parents like that.

My parents have three children two of which attended uni twice each, they helped where they could. I am now on my second degree, I am 24 and I think it is unreasonable that my parents are still expected to contribute. My parents earn just over the threshold, what is that about £50,000? So £25,000 each, approximately average wage, they are basically being punished for not getting a divorce. Families where parents have split get an unfair advantage, both parents can work yet only one income goes down on the form. And it will always be the lower one. I understand they may have two houses to pay for, but this is how the parents have decided how to 'prioritize' their money isn't it? Rather than remain unhappily married in order to be able to save money for the kid's uni bills. Which is as ridiculous as assuming that my parents could have had different priorities, when you know nothing about their circumstances.

Of course you are right, they could downsize. My parents have two cars they could get rid of one to save money, which also means one would have to quit work, bringing us under the threshold and solving all my problems, but that's not really the point is it.

Reply 158

littleone271

Original post by Fraga

I see. It is me who is getting mixed up :rofl:

Makes no sense that people from high income families can't get the full loan because surely they will more than likely be in a position to pay it back :/

You thought that 3k would be enough to live on for a year? Have you looked at accommodation prices?

Providing you're planning on living away from home and studying outside of london then you'll be entitled to £7,125 and it's around half and half loan and grant so it's only 3500ish debt a year.

It does make sense. Just because your parents earn a lot of money it doesn't mean you will and your repayments are based on YOUR annual income after graduation. Also, there's no point paying it off in bulk because the interest rates are really low, the payments are easily doable and it gets cancelled after 30 years. I think there might actually be some kind of fine for doing that as well.

The government can't afford to give support to everybody so they give it to those whose parents actually can't help out very much if at all. If parents choose not to help then it's unfortunate for their children but it's their bad attitudes that are the problem, not the system.

Reply 159

littleone271

Original post by Otkem

And you're generalising by assuming that middle class people always have more money and work harder for better jobs than working class people.

I know plenty of minted working class people and my family have a low income but we're actually fairly middle class people.

Money doesn't buy class. Class is to do with your ancestry and your mentality.