Results are out! Find what you need...fast. Get quick advice or join the chat
Hey there Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free

Atheists - How do you think the Bible was written?

Announcements Posted on
Live webchat: Student Finance explained - on TSR from 2 - 3pm 17-09-2014
Got a question about Student Finance? Ask the experts this week on TSR! 14-09-2014
    • 12 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Mad Cat Lady)
    Hi, you seem to know what you're talking about. I'll believe you on the new testament cause I don't really know anything about it but I did hear from somewhere that it was written about 200 years after Jesus' death, but that wasn't from a reliable source.

    However where I said the old testament came from WAS from a reliable source, and I'm pretty sure that the Bible was written originally in Latin, hence why in old-age britain churches were banned from translating the Bible into English and readings of the Bible had to be in Latin, because they thought that changing it from its original would be blasphemy against the sacred text.
    What I said is what Biblical scholars believe but tbh no one really KNOWS for sure, theres probably a lot of theories. And I didn't neg you btw!
    Oh don't worry about the neg

    Some of the New Testament stuff pushes into the 2nd Century (some of St. Paul's letters which weren't written by him but based upon his teachings) but nothing quite as old as 200 years old.

    The OT is a funny old collection of books. Most were written in Hebrew but some were written in Greek because of the hellenisation of Israel's culture that took place, this includes the Book of Wisdom which has hints of Plato inside it (not written by him but it alludes to one of his works). It is a variety of works so while some, such as Genesis, are drawing upon a variety of creation stories and weaving them together as a poem, other's, such as the Book of Kings, are historical books. Others are books of prophecy, something unique to the Hebrew Bible.

    The OT was written in Hebrew and Greek, as mentioned earlier, and the NT was written in Greek. As for the Latin there were unofficial Latin translations floating around (and also translations in Aramaic and Ethipopian) but it was St. Jerome's translation written from the late 4th to the early 5th Century that was the official translation approved by the Church.

    Hope this helps

    The OT was written in, as mentioned, Gr
    • 42 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by mczakk)
    Waco, or any other cult you can think of, or if you want to see how the masses can blindly follow someone because they want something to believe in, just watch the 'Life of Brian'
    I won't get into how Christianity is so different from cults such as Scientology and Mormonism, but stick to talking about the people following the religions

    Let's imagine you went to a cult member, and asked if they had ever seen their leader walk on water in front of them (or perform another physical impossibility), they'd say yes? Even if they were threatened with bodily decapitation?

    Or how about (for something a bit more realistic) you killed the cult leader. Then would the cult followers take it upon themselves to spend the rest of their rather brief lives telling everyone about how they literally saw their leader do physical miracles?

    I find it hard to believe that people will outright invent impossibilities, especially when threatened with death. They might twist stories, for example someone having a heart attack but doesn't die gets changed into a dead person coming back to life, but what about a blind person regaining sight? It's impossible to be brainwashed into thinking you saw someone's eyes being restored in front of you - especially if you ARE the blind person.
    • 6 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by adamrules247)
    Oh don't worry about the neg

    Some of the New Testament stuff pushes into the 2nd Century (some of St. Paul's letters which weren't written by him but based upon his teachings) but nothing quite as old as 200 years old.

    The OT is a funny old collection of books. Most were written in Hebrew but some were written in Greek because of the hellenisation of Israel's culture that took place, this includes the Book of Wisdom which has hints of Plato inside it (not written by him but it alludes to one of his works). It is a variety of works so while some, such as Genesis, are drawing upon a variety of creation stories and weaving them together as a poem, other's, such as the Book of Kings, are historical books. Others are books of prophecy, something unique to the Hebrew Bible.

    The OT was written in Hebrew and Greek, as mentioned earlier, and the NT was written in Greek. As for the Latin there were unofficial Latin translations floating around (and also translations in Aramaic and Ethipopian) but it was St. Jerome's translation written from the late 4th to the early 5th Century that was the official translation approved by the Church.

    Hope this helps

    The OT was written in, as mentioned, Gr
    Heh, I guess I wasn't all wrong then, I knew it was during Constantine's reign and it was from a large collection of stories but I must've misinterpreted. My schema has been altered thanks!
    • 3 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Mbob)
    Pretty much correct, although you're stretching the Latin thing a bit. At the time all official/important documents were written in Latin, it was the 'English' of the time for written works. Translating it into English probably seemed as ridiculous as writing your employment contract in txtspk would be now.
    True, but education in general, and the ability to read or write was the preserve of the ruling classes, and the bible was just an extension of this.
    • 3 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    i find your reasons more likely than the accepted "cus theres a god" reason...

    i also find it quite weird that people form impossible traits in order to justify gods existence rather realise the possibility that there may not be a god

    guy1: how can god have such power to create everything?
    guys2: *thinks*...i know... god is omnipotent

    guy1: how can god listen to a persons prayers and then another person who happens to be on the other side of the planet?
    guy2: hmmm... oh.,.. god is omnipresent
    • 3 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Architecture-er)
    I won't get into how Christianity is so different from cults such as Scientology and Mormonism, but stick to talking about the people following the religions

    Let's imagine you went to a cult member, and asked if they had ever seen their leader walk on water in front of them (or perform another physical impossibility), they'd say yes? Even if they were threatened with bodily decapitation?

    Or how about (for something a bit more realistic) you killed the cult leader. Then would the cult followers take it upon themselves to spend the rest of their rather brief lives telling everyone about how they literally saw their leader do physical miracles?

    I find it hard to believe that people will outright invent impossibilities, especially when threatened with death. They might twist stories, for example someone having a heart attack but doesn't die gets changed into a dead person coming back to life, but what about a blind person regaining sight? It's impossible to be brainwashed into thinking you saw someone's eyes being restored in front of you - especially if you ARE the blind person.
    christianity is as much a cult as any other, the only difference between a cult and religion is size!

    people will invent anything in order to gain power over another, and will invent even more when threatened with death. are you saying that you would not lie to save your life, or that of one of your family?

    as for miracles, again, see the hermit in life of brian who had not spoken for years!
    • 12 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Mad Cat Lady)
    Heh, I guess I wasn't all wrong then, I knew it was during Constantine's reign and it was from a large collection of stories but I must've misinterpreted. My schema has been altered thanks!
    Quite alright :top:
    • 12 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Architecture-er)
    I find it hard to believe that people will outright invent impossibilities
    Yet history is full of such people. Witnesses against the accused at many witchcraft trials, for instance.
    • 42 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by mczakk)
    christianity is as much a cult as any other, the only difference between a cult and religion is size!

    people will invent anything in order to gain power over another, and will invent even more when threatened with death. are you saying that you would not lie to save your life, or that of one of your family?

    as for miracles, again, see the hermit in life of brian who had not spoken for years!
    Not sure if you're deliberately misunderstanding me, but I'm saying that people will lie, although it will cost them their life... Christians were not telling the Romans that they believed in Jesus because it'd get them off the hook, were they.

    I think there's a slight difference between the hermit in LoB, and people claiming that somebody has been brought back from the dead (pick any of the multitude that are recorded in the Bible). In each of these cases, the relatives have already ascertained that the subject is dead. I doubt that they'd suddenly start believing that their deceased relative is living again just because Jesus says so.
    • 5 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Architecture-er)
    I won't get into how Christianity is so different from cults such as Scientology and Mormonism, but stick to talking about the people following the religions

    Let's imagine you went to a cult member, and asked if they had ever seen their leader walk on water in front of them (or perform another physical impossibility), they'd say yes? Even if they were threatened with bodily decapitation?

    Or how about (for something a bit more realistic) you killed the cult leader. Then would the cult followers take it upon themselves to spend the rest of their rather brief lives telling everyone about how they literally saw their leader do physical miracles?

    I find it hard to believe that people will outright invent impossibilities, especially when threatened with death. They might twist stories, for example someone having a heart attack but doesn't die gets changed into a dead person coming back to life, but what about a blind person regaining sight? It's impossible to be brainwashed into thinking you saw someone's eyes being restored in front of you - especially if you ARE the blind person.
    Ask anyone who truly wants to believe something and they'll swear blind that it's happened. People have been abducted by aliens, have seen UFOs, have spoken to ghosts, have seen miracles and much more.

    You are attributing a quality of proof and likelihood to a chosen set of circumstances which are backed up only by the world of people who desparately want to believe them, I suspect because they're the beliefs you favour or follow.

    Let me chuck a hypothesis at you. I believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster. I saw somebody's sight restored when they held meatballs against their head. It was an actual miracle which I saw myself. I believe it more than anything else I have ever seen despite what anyone else may argue. I'm going to write it everywhere I can and, one day, somebody may hold it up as gospel.

    There's no proof for this happening except the word of somebody who wants it to be believed.
    • 3 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by mczakk)
    christianity is as much a cult as any other, the only difference between a cult and religion is size!
    i would have thought there were more differences than that
    so a cult can progress to becoming a religion solely by its popularity?
    • 42 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Good bloke)
    Yet history is full of such people. Witnesses against the accused at many witchcraft trials, for instance.
    Would those same witnesses still say that the witch was a witch, even when threatened with death if they kept up their accusation?

    Such things are driven by fear, malice, crowd-following and perhaps the yearning to see somebody get drowned. Not because they've literally witnessed the witch turn somebody into a frog.

    Interestingly the disciples believed their beliefs in the face of fear, malice, against the crowd and with the high likelihood of being drowned themselves. Bit of a polar opposite isn't it

    It's like the witch herself claiming to be a witch, whilst standing at the side of a pond with stones tied to her legs
    • 3 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Architecture-er)
    Not sure if you're deliberately misunderstanding me, but I'm saying that people will lie, although it will cost them their life... Christians were not telling the Romans that they believed in Jesus because it'd get them off the hook, were they.

    I think there's a slight difference between the hermit in LoB, and people claiming that somebody has been brought back from the dead (pick any of the multitude that are recorded in the Bible). In each of these cases, the relatives have already ascertained that the subject is dead. I doubt that they'd suddenly start believing that their deceased relative is living again just because Jesus says so.
    you seem to be making the constant mistake that the bible is a book of irrefutable facts.
    • 12 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Dmon1Unlimited)
    so a cult can progress to becoming a religion solely by its popularity?
    Precisely. That is the only difference, and Christianity was just such a cult.
    • 3 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Good bloke)
    Yet history is full of such people. Witnesses against the accused at many witchcraft trials, for instance.
    hell it still happens now...

    read an article a long time ago about an incident (think lightning?) killing one entire team (footballers?) in a match... fans started accusing each over of witchcraft...
    • 0 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    Grunch: I think potentially the Bible was written by a group of people who wanted to promote a solid moral foundation (because most of what the Bible teaches, despite the homophobia etc., is actually fairly solid), and wanted to do it in a way which would speak to the proletariat. They then created a bunch of stories (a la Aesop's Fables) to teach these, taking influence from the other religions at the time (I believe Judaism was certainly one, but my religious history is awful, so I can't postulate more as to the others.
    • 42 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Miraclefish)
    Ask anyone who truly wants to believe something and they'll swear blind that it's happened. People have been abducted by aliens, have seen UFOs, have spoken to ghosts, have seen miracles and much more.

    You are attributing a quality of proof and likelihood to a chosen set of circumstances which are backed up only by the world of people who desparately want to believe them, I suspect because they're the beliefs you favour or follow.

    Let me chuck a hypothesis at you. I believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster. I saw somebody's sight restored when they held meatballs against their head. It was an actual miracle which I saw myself. I believe it more than anything else I have ever seen despite what anyone else may argue. I'm going to write it everywhere I can and, one day, somebody may hold it up as gospel.

    There's no proof for this happening except the word of somebody who wants it to be believed.
    Ok. Because you've spoken blasphemy about the Flying Spaghetti Monster, I'm going to kill you. I'm going to drive massive nails through your hands, stretch you up on a piece of wood in 40 degrees + and leave you there for several days without food, water, or respite from the tearing pain in your arms. Then you'll die.

    Oh, if you don't want that you can just not say anything about the spaghetti monster, and go away. Or you can keep at it, and the above will happen to you.

    See where I'm coming from?
    • 3 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Dmon1Unlimited)
    i would have thought there were more differences than that
    so a cult can progress to becoming a religion solely by its popularity?
    all religions have done, those that grow and gain power become religions, those that don't are either destroyed or driven underground.
    scientology was a cult started by a sci fi writer, it is now an international religion. even christianity was started be someone saying 'this is what i believe, who is with me?'
    just the same as all the others
    • 42 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by mczakk)
    you seem to be making the constant mistake that the bible is a book of irrefutable facts.
    Not really, there's evidence of jesus' existence outside of the bible. I'm then taking the supposition that Jesus did exist, and ask why people believed him so fervently, in the face of brutal, horrific deaths.
    • 3 followers
    Offline

    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Architecture-er)
    Ok. Because you've spoken blasphemy about the Flying Spaghetti Monster, I'm going to kill you. I'm going to drive massive nails through your hands, stretch you up on a piece of wood in 40 degrees + and leave you there for several days without food, water, or respite from the tearing pain in your arms. Then you'll die.

    Oh, if you don't want that you can just not say anything about the spaghetti monster, and go away. Or you can keep at it, and the above will happen to you.

    See where I'm coming from?
    you're only going to do that because you are scared that the fsm will attract more followers and become more powerful than your deity, and you have the power to try and stop it. if enough people believe in the fsm, are you going to kill them all?

    ps, i know this dude, he will die for the fsm, because he believes in it so much, and he told me so

Reply

Submit reply

Register

Thanks for posting! You just need to create an account in order to submit the post
  1. this can't be left blank
    that username has been taken, please choose another Forgotten your password?
  2. this can't be left blank
    this email is already registered. Forgotten your password?
  3. this can't be left blank

    6 characters or longer with both numbers and letters is safer

  4. this can't be left empty
    your full birthday is required
  1. By joining you agree to our Ts and Cs, privacy policy and site rules

  2. Slide to join now Processing…

Updated: April 9, 2012
New on TSR

Writing your personal statement

Our free PS builder tool makes it easy

Article updates
Useful resources
Reputation gems:
You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.