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The Manchester United Thread IX

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    (Original post by Kevmeister)
    Piss off. 'Best of a poor bunch'

    Are City poor this year? You're more than willing to say City are good and will improve, yet dismiss Utd? We were without our captain and one of our mainstays in midfield for most of the season. The only player City have missed for a long period of time is Owen Hargreaves. But hey, you don't take that into account.

    You just continue being a pessimistic percy. Good lad.
    No you can't. I find it irritating when people make bold claims like this. Unless we buy big rather than players like Clyne, City will only get more dominant because they will be active again in the window, and the confidence a title brings is priceless.
    Did you actually read my inital comment? I said unless Manchester United improve their squad and spend big. Currently the squad we have this year will not push City next year, if they spend big and we just make a low cost signing. Vidic was a big mess, but I doubt had Anderson and Cleverley been fit for the whole season, the outcome would have been different. If Man City go out and buy the likes of Hazard and we only buy unproven talent, surely they will get stronger. I'm not sure why that is hard for you to understand.


    Guessing you're in your twenties, yet still need to resort to petty insults. Good on you.
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    (Original post by Tsunami2011)
    Did you actually read my inital comment? I said unless Manchester United improve their squad and spend big. Currently the squad we have this year will not push City next year, if they spend big and we just make a low cost signing. Vidic was a big mess, but I doubt had Anderson and Cleverley been fit for the whole season, the outcome would have been different. If Man City go out and buy the likes of Hazard and we only buy unproven talent, surely they will get stronger. I'm not sure why that is hard for you to understand.


    Guessing you're in your twenties, yet still need to resort to petty insults. Good on you.
    Same was said last season when City signed Aguero et al. Again, forgive my scepticism regarding your claim. And there's nothing to say City will spend big, given their squad is already bloated and wages are running way ahead of what they bring in.
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    Just a quick news point. MUFC have started advertising the 2011/12 season review DVD and one of the key selling points this year is a return to the old tried and trusted format that we know and love. Proper highlights as it actually aired live using original tapes from the broadcasters. Last season they shook it up and brought the production in house, using all MUTV footage/announcing, showing extremely cut down flash highlights and changing the camera angles so often it made me feel dizzy and didn't show the goals properly! United have obviously acknowledged the mistake - and the fact it was regarded by just about everyone to be their worst ever home video release - and are giving us what we want for this season.

    I'm delighted, big fan of the season reviews but last years made my head spin. This year's edition is produced by Bombo (who did the Wayne Rooney DVD) and will be released nationally on June 11th, I know I'll be rushing out to buy it.
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    (Original post by Kevmeister)
    Same was said last season when City signed Aguero et al. Again, forgive my scepticism regarding your claim. And there's nothing to say City will spend big, given their squad is already bloated and wages are running way ahead of what they bring in.
    I was probably abit hasty in saying that City would run away with it. Since, there are only about 8 or so actual 'top' teams in the league, Manchester United will always chalk up enough points to be right near the top come the final hurdle. There are many poor teams in the premier league,so yeah its unlikely that City will ever run away with it, it'll just become a season which is decided by the big games. My point is that we'll probably always end up chasing City or on the tails of City just like how we were this season until their collapse.

    I just don't think there is any need for the negging or insulting, just because someone disagrees with you. It's strange.
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    Moving on, agree to disagree.

    No Evans or Smalling tomorrow. Jones at centre back. :grumble:
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    Will do Jones some good to get a game in his actual position.
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    (Original post by Kevmeister)
    Jones at centre back. :grumble:
    Its going to have to happen eventually. I'd prefer him to partner Rio if he is going to play.
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    (Original post by doggyfizzel)
    Its going to have to happen eventually. I'd prefer him to partner Rio if he is going to play.
    Doesn't mean I have to like it. His best position is right back, doesn't matter where he started or what people believe to be his 'actual' position, he has shown this season that he cannot be trusted at centre back. He's not mature enough.
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    (Original post by pinda.college)
    Our squad has been full of injuries and various set-backs this season, but we have still remained right behind City. We even had an eight point lead a few weeks ago however, we let it slip which is highly unlike us. Beleive me when I say that Fergie will find a way to deal with City next season, remember if we lose the title then it's most likely going to because of their superior goal difference. You say the title brings a lot of confidence, well we have won it 19 times compared to City's potential first.
    But it won't be there first. They won it in 1936/7 and 1967/68.
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    (Original post by Kevmeister)
    Doesn't mean I have to like it. His best position is right back, doesn't matter where he started or what people believe to be his 'actual' position, he has shown this season that he cannot be trusted at centre back. He's not mature enough.
    I don't think that maturity is going to come by playing him at right back, you can afford to and indeed are expected to show moments of recklessness at full back. The only way he is going to learn it is by playing, if we are willing to do it we should have loaned him out. If he is going to play, I'd prefer it to be alongside Rio, he the best of mopping up mistakes.
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    (Original post by doggyfizzel)
    I don't think that maturity is going to come by playing him at right back, you can afford to and indeed are expected to show moments of recklessness at full back. The only way he is going to learn it is by playing, if we are willing to do it we should have loaned him out. If he is going to play, I'd prefer it to be alongside Rio, he the best of mopping up mistakes.
    Maturity comes with age and experience. Next season we should see the back of Jones at CB, thankfully.
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    (Original post by moonmonkey812)
    tbh the kit doesn't look too bad on the players, I love the black socks
    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...-like-Utd.html
    Loving some plain, black socks says a lot about the shirt :P
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    (Original post by Kevmeister)
    Doesn't mean I have to like it. His best position is right back, doesn't matter where he started or what people believe to be his 'actual' position, he has shown this season that he cannot be trusted at centre back. He's not mature enough.
    Maturity comes with age and experience. Next season we should see the back of Jones at CB, thankfully.

    I think you're being a touch harsh really, his best performances all season came at the very start when he was partnering Evans on a fairly regular basis, so it's unfair to say he can't be trusted. Seem to remember him playing at CB with Smalling outside him at RB so he wasn't a liability then.

    Admittedly he has faded as the season has gone on, moving him all over the place hasn't helped and he seems to be a bit of a confidence player in that his poor performances come together, struggled a bit against Crouch and then was poor against Basel, and then had consecutive shockers against Blackburn and Newcastle. But the main reason he has barely played there since is because Rio has strung together an impressive amount of games and Evans has been in good form. So yeah it's fair to be a little worried but personally I trust him to come through it well. (apologies in advance guys )

    Strangely enough I don't think his biggest problem at CB is maturity, or his positioning, or the myth that he's constantly caught upfield during opposition attacks. It's that he's not aerially dominant yet and that he's sluggish on the turn. The first will come with age and hopefully the second will be sorted through training. I'll be disappointed if we do 'see the back' of him as a CB because he has ridiculous amounts of potential and he needs at least some gametime there to fulfil it.

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    someone needs to put those silly blonde highlights back in his hair, he was a much better player with them :lol:
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    (Original post by Louis.)
    I think you're being a touch harsh really, his best performances all season came at the very start when he was partnering Evans on a fairly regular basis, so it's unfair to say he can't be trusted. Seem to remember him playing at CB with Smalling outside him at RB so he wasn't a liability then.

    Admittedly he has faded as the season has gone on, moving him all over the place hasn't helped and he seems to be a bit of a confidence player in that his poor performances come together, struggled a bit against Crouch and then was poor against Basel, and then had consecutive shockers against Blackburn and Newcastle. But the main reason he has barely played there since is because Rio has strung together an impressive amount of games and Evans has been in good form. So yeah it's fair to be a little worried but personally I trust him to come through it well. (apologies in advance guys )

    Strangely enough I don't think his biggest problem at CB is maturity, or his positioning, or the myth that he's constantly caught upfield during opposition attacks. It's that he's not aerially dominant yet and that he's sluggish on the turn. The first will come with age and hopefully the second will be sorted through training. I'll be disappointed if we do 'see the back' of him as a CB because he has ridiculous amounts of potential and he needs at least some gametime there to fulfil it.

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    someone needs to put those silly blonde highlights back in his hair, he was a much better player with them :lol:
    Agree with most of the post. Re the bolded bit, I only meant next season, not for the rest of his career. We shouldn't need to put him at CB next season, we'll have four better options for the position. I hope this is especially the case in Europe.
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    (Original post by Solid_Snake7)
    Why do you keep going on about him at RB? He's been just as ****, if not ****ter, at RB as at CB, but CB is actually his natural position, so why would we try to convert him to RB when Rafael is clearly much better in that position than he is? Both he and Rafael need to sort out their defensive positioning and mature in terms of keeping their concentration for the full 90 minutes, but the answer to Jones making mistakes at CB is not to shift him out to RB, where he'll not only make defensive mistakes but offer **** all going forward, as we saw against Swansea. Jones actually has the potential to be a very solid CB, people forget it's his first season with us and he's only 20. What we really need is a DM and AM, and possibly a left back to compete with Evra.
    **** off with the 'natural' position bull****. This is not ****ing football manager. IF its his natural position then why was he not a fixture there for Blackburn?

    ****ing natural position bull**** spouted by pundits, taken up by fans.
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    (Original post by Kevmeister)
    Agree with most of the post. Re the bolded bit, I only meant next season, not for the rest of his career. We shouldn't need to put him at CB next season, we'll have four better options for the position. I hope this is especially the case in Europe.
    Yeah I understood, but over what will be hopefully a very long season we can get Jones playing at least 10 games at CB. We'll get injuries (we always do in that area ) and Rio's getting older so we'd do well to keep Jones familiar in that position. Pecking orders can change very quickly too. Last summer the chances that Evans would be keeping Smalling out of the team seemed very remote. Just takes a little niggle to someone and then if Jones takes his chance...

    Definitely 5th choice for now though. It's encouraging that our CBs have spent a lot of time playing together. Obviously Rio and Vidic, then Vidic and Smalling played a lot last season and Rio and Evans developed a partnership this season. Vidic and Evans must have played a lot of games together too, although not so much in the last couple of years. Very excited to watch De Gea playing with Vidic in front of him too.
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    (Original post by Kevmeister)
    **** off with the 'natural' position bull****. This is not ****ing football manager. IF its his natural position then why was he not a fixture there for Blackburn?

    ****ing natural position bull**** spouted by pundits, taken up by fans.
    Get over yourself, seriously, you're no expert, the **** you come out with is evidence enough of that. Players do have 'natural positions' in terms of which positions they feel most comfortable playing. It's very obvious, otherwise why would we bother with positions at all you absolute tool? We would just say 'go out and play' since you can all just play in every position. Not many players are capable of this, it's why we talk about players being 'converted' in the first place, why Giggs often looks so lost in CM - because it's not his NATURAL POSITION. As for Jones, I seem to remember him making his debut against Chelsea at centre back and playing regularly there. I wonder why that is? Yes he played as a DM, but DM is not RB - one is a purely defensive position, protecting the defence, something which Blackburn as a lower end team clearly felt they could do with, and the other is also an attacking position insomuch as a RB is expected to get forward and overlap with the RM player. He has shown in his performances for Utd and England that he does not have the technical ability to be a great DM, which points to the fact that his natural position is in fact CB. Perhaps in time he might develop the positional intelligence which, aligned with good tackling ability, could make him a decent DM, but it's not his natural position. So get off your ****ing high horse, I'm so sick of your condescending rants every time someone has an opinion that differs to yours, you're far from being the source of all footballing knowledge. If you can't actually come up with a proper counter-point when I post something, do everyone a favour and keep it shut, no one wants to come on here and read your reply which simply consists of profanities and insults.
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    (Original post by Solid_Snake7)
    Get over yourself, seriously, you're no expert, the **** you come out with is evidence enough of that. Players do have 'natural positions' in terms of which positions they feel most comfortable playing. It's very obvious, otherwise why would we bother with positions at all you absolute tool? We would just say 'go out and play' since you can all just play in every position. Not many players are capable of this, it's why we talk about players being 'converted' in the first place, why Giggs often looks so lost in CM - because it's not his NATURAL POSITION. As for Jones, I seem to remember him making his debut against Chelsea at centre back and playing regularly there. I wonder why that is? Yes he played as a DM, but DM is not RB - one is a purely defensive position, protecting the defence, something which Blackburn as a lower end team clearly felt they could do with, and the other is also an attacking position insomuch as a RB is expected to get forward and overlap with the RM player. He has shown in his performances for Utd and England that he does not have the technical ability to be a great DM, which points to the fact that his natural position is in fact CB. Perhaps in time he might develop the positional intelligence which, aligned with good tackling ability, could make him a decent DM, but it's not his natural position. So get off your ****ing high horse, I'm so sick of your condescending rants every time someone has an opinion that differs to yours, you're far from being the source of all footballing knowledge. If you can't actually come up with a proper counter-point when I post something, do everyone a favour and keep it shut, no one wants to come on here and read your reply which simply consists of profanities and insults.
    Scholes started out as a striker, is that his natural position? This natural position crap is just that, crap. A player evolves so much in his younger years that to pigeon hole them makes no sense whatsoever. RVP started out as a winger. Rio started out as a midfielder AFAIK.

    People said Rooney was an out and out striker a few years ago, now a lot are hailing him as a trequarista type front man. So which is his natural position? Why has his role changed?

    Ironic how you reproach me for profanities when your post contains a few. And it'd be interesting to know why you deleted the post. [?]
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    I don't think Jones will ever make a top RB, rarely do CB's moved out wide make good full backs. He's not fast enough or agile enough to cope with someone like Nani backing him into the box.

    Ultimately by moving him all you are doing it putting him in a position where he doesn't have to deal with his weaknesses. That's fine, but when you move him back those are still going to be there, I think its okay for him to fill in, but putting him at RB to seasons, his ability at CB will not have improved by a measurable amount. To improve he needs to play, which is probably why SAF didn't want to buy him, as he's going to struggle to merit a starting berth at the moment. The only other position I can see him being United quality in is a DM, as a right back he's never going to be good enough for, lacks nearly every fundamental quality of a full back apart from being able to run.
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    (Original post by Kevmeister)
    Same was said last season when City signed Aguero et al. Again, forgive my scepticism regarding your claim. And there's nothing to say City will spend big, given their squad is already bloated and wages are running way ahead of what they bring in.
    Mate, theres a point where support becomes blind faith. And I think you're verging on that point. If there is one certain thing its that city will strengthen. And one thing that is near certain is we will not buy more big name players than them. consider both of these and then we will surely be nowhere near them next year.

    Also, last year we were certainly the best of a bad bunch. To win 5(i think) away games all season indicates this. Chelsea bottled it and we scraped by on home form.

    Don't want to continue to be a doom mongerer, but surely people realise that its some soft of unquantifiable force that has meant were second this year. Yes Vidic was a miss. But anyone thinking Fletcher would have made a bit difference to our success is overstating his quality. If we don't buy big, the best we can hope for is second next year. And that depends on who Arsenal, Chelsea and Spurs buy. TBH, I cant see us out of the top 3, but to be number one, we need to buy. And its not looking like we're going to if I'm honest.

    On a positive note though, in Smalling, I think we have an amazing replacement for Rio, and I can see him being an England stalwart for 10 years.
Updated: December 31, 2012
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